Do You Have Any Symptoms of Ukraine-War Induced Russophobia?

[Florestan]

Before the scelerate Putin began this insane war on Ukraine I was an avowed Russophile culturally and a staunch Russophobe politically and socially. Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff were among my Top 5 composers and many Russian performers and conductors were among my favorites as well --- not to mention Russian literature.

But after February 25th, everything changed. My Russophobia skyrocketed while my Russophilia plummeted. Ever since the Russian aggression on Ukraine started, I have not listened to any Russian composer or to any performance by a Russian musician or read any Russian literary work --- and what is more, I feel an intense repulsion to the very thought of doing just that. Honestly, I feel like I don't want to have got anything at all to do with anything Russian anymore and that the good and the beautiful that the Russians brought to the world is far, exceedingly far outweighed by the evil and the harm they caused to the same world. In my darkest moments I even go so far as to say that, if I could push a button whereby Russia and Russians would be erased from recorded history without any trace whatsoever, I'd push it without any second thoughts. Heck, these days my wife jokingly told my 9-yo son that he could as well marry a Russian woman because they are very beautiful, whereupon I ejaculated that I forbid him to have anything at all to do with any Russian, female or male, under pain of disavowal and disinheritance.

It's rather irrational, I know (although less so for one familiar with Romanian history) but I can't help it --- and I can't see myself being cured in any foreseeable future.

How about you? Any symptom(s) of that?

[Ganondorf]

Not really. While the government of Russia is utterly corrupt I know for a fact that many ordinary Russian citizens are among the kindest people one can imagine, even though many of them live in extreme poverty.

I have been enjoying Russian art a lot even these days and in fact today I read some Tolstoy without a single thought related to current situation during the reading.

[71 dB]

My consumption of Russian art has been somewhat limited and that hasn't changed much during this war. I don't see how composers like Taneyev who died over 100 years ago should be held responsible for the actions of a madman today. As for the Russian people, I feel bad for them (but naturally I feel much more for Ukrainian people who are REALLY suffering). They have to live in a country of ridiculously low quality of living compared to the potential (Russia could be a massive Norway with its energy reserves) under a dictator and brainwashing.

If anything, I am saddened about the fact that despite all the progress mankind has taken, we haven't figured out how to prevent dictatorships. The fact that we can't figure this out might be the downfall of our civilization, because one day a dictator is crazy enough to start WWIII. We are already close that scenario... 

In the near future we might be in a situation where Ron DeSantis is the president of the USA, Marine Le Pen is the president of France and Putin is still in power...

[Florestan]

today I read some Tolstoy without a single thought related to current situation during the reading.

I don't see how composers like Taneyev who died over 100 years ago should be held responsible for the actions of a madman today.

Well, that's one of my main problems: Tolstoy and Taneyev had nothing to do with the scelerate Putin --- yet even during their lifetime Russia was a tyranny in which most of the people lived in dire poverty and ignorance, a tyranny which wholly or partially subjugated neighboring nations and a tyranny which was unabashedly unrepentant in its staunch and conscious promotion of tyranny. Even during their lifetime Russia was a fucked-up country which was bent on fucking up all their neighbors as well. Of the two, I have much more sympathy for Tolstoy, who actively and constantly opposed all that, than for Taneyev who never ever spoke any word against that --- and that is valid also for Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff. Dostoevsky is an even sadder case: he was an unabashed apologist for tsarism and Russian hegemony.

Now that I think of it, the only Russian writers / composers / performers that I will ever consider in the future are those who actively opposed whatever Russian regime they were living under.

[krummholz]

My favourite Russian composer is, and continues to be, Shostakovich. That said, given that conditions in his country are returning increasingly to the way they were during his lifetime, it's becoming more and more painful to listen to his darker works as I cannot help thinking about what the Russian people are going through under this new incarnation of Stalin. But that is not quite the same thing as what the OP is reporting - I have not developed a distaste for all things Russian, just a great antipathy toward the current regime and a dread over the direction this is all heading.

[LKB]

My affection for the great Russian composers is unchanged, and my cynicism towards Russian business and political entities ( which is decades old ) is likewise unchanged.

[Florestan]

Well, don't get me wrong, guys, I feel for the ordinary Russian people --- the problem is that (1) they have always lived under tyranny, have always experienced poverty and ignorance, have always been victims of propaganda and censorship, and (2) that the Russian soldiers who commit(ed) abominable war crimes in Ukraine (and actually any historically-aware Eastern European can tell you that they already did all of that all along their way to Berlin in 1944-45 as well) are not monsters created especially for that, but sons, husbands, fathers and other relatives of ordinary Russian people, ie ordinary Russian people themselves.

I can already hear some people protesting: the Germans were no different almost a century ago. Well, there is a big difference between the Germans and the Russians: while the former repented their follies and crimes and officially and collectively vowed never ever to repeat them again, the later not only did not repent, they are officially and collectively proud of what they did and are willing to unrepentantly do it again.

[DavidW]

Not at all.  I've been listening to Shostakovich and recently bought Life and Fate.

[Florestan]

Life and Fate.

One of the greatest novels of the 20th century --- and it more than qualifies for "opposition to the current Russian regime". IIRC, Stalin dubbed Grossman as "even more dangerous than Pasternak". Enjoy!

I heartily recommend you Bulgakov's The White Guard as well --- especially in the current context.

[DavidW]

Thanks for the recs!

[Florestan]

Thanks for the recs!

No, really, I was blown away by The White Guard when I read it --- IIRC, in the early 2000s. Given the current context, I should read it again.

[MusicTurner]

Reveries of going to Russia for the first time, in the future, have mainly gone for me. Will stick to maybe a visit again to Ukraine, to support the economy and explore more. But have also followed these war events rather intensely ...

The Russian societal climate leading to the level - and thus also the acceptance - of the current propaganda there, the regime's lying, and the overall, pretty constant support for Putin's policies, reflect conditions that are basically ugly, IMO. I believe his popularity is generally correct. If he goes even more extreme, the attitude might finally change, however.

But musically, I don't think I've felt any urge to listen to a Russian piece since the invasion was getting obvious. Yet I won't be 'boycotting' Russian music by principle. I also have a comprehensive bunch of books on Russian art & culture, but haven't sought them recently, maybe later.

Of course, a lot of Russian art (and music) has been oppositional, and with humanist traits too. But still: what was learned, and what did it lead to, even here in 2022 ... I don't think any 'whataboutisms' will change my mood in this respect - it will remain for a good deal of time - and probably at least as long as Putin or Putinism rules.

[Florestan]

The Russian societal climate leading to the level - and thus also the acceptance - of the current propaganda there, the regime's lying, and the overall, pretty constant support for Putin's policies, reflect conditions that are basically ugly, IMO. I believe his popularity is generally correct. [...]

But musically, I don't think I've felt any urge to listen to a Russian piece since the invasion was getting obvious. [...]

Of course, a lot of Russian art (and music) has been oppositional, and with humanist traits too. But still: what was learned, and what did it lead to, even here in 2022 ... I don't think any 'whataboutisms' will change my mood, which will last for a good deal of time - and at least as long as Putin rules.

Our positions are very close, the difference being that mine is stated in much stronger words --- which might very well be a question of temperament. 

And yes, I wanted to visit Russia too --- but I'll have no regret whatsoever if I never ever get to do that.

[steve ridgway]

I still enjoy Schnittke but as far as I'm concerned Russia's major contributions to history have been stopping various invaders that were also threatening Western Europe and frightening America into putting massive resources into space exploration.

[Florestan]

Now that I think of it, the only Russian writers / composers / performers that I will ever consider in the future are those who actively opposed whatever Russian regime they were living under.

And now that I think of it, the only Russian composers that I know of who were opposed to the Tsarist regime (albeit not actively but tacitly) were Rimsky-Korsakov and Glazunov. If you guys know of any others, please let me know. It pains me to say that to the best of my knowledge neither Tchaikovsky nor Rachmaninoff ever manifested the slightest opposition in this respect.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

In answer to the question: No.

One reason being that my interest is more in the "Russosphere" (i.e. the cultural area where the Russian language is used) than in whatever the current iteration of the Russian state happens to be. The Russosphere is much bigger than one country. Get on YouTube, and you can watch lots of Ukrainians denouncing Russia in their own native (though with local accent) Russian language. Most of these people do not consider themselves Russian any more than Irish people consider themselves English.

A lot of Russian culture is historically linked to exile, usually for political reasons.

Also, as the man says in Apocalypse Now: "Someday, this war's gonna end."

[Ganondorf]

And now that I think of it, the only Russian composers that I know of who were opposed to the Tsarist regime (albeit not actively but tacitly) were Rimsky-Korsakov and Glazunov. If you guys know of any others, please let me know. It pains me to say that to the best of my knowledge neither Tchaikovsky nor Rachmaninoff ever manifested the slightest opposition in this respect.

Not an answer to your inquiry but for what it's worth, Rimsky-Korsakov is one of my top 3 Russian composers... but the other two happen to be Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff! 

[Florestan]

Get on YouTube, and you can watch lots of Ukrainians denouncing Russia in their own native (though with local accent) Russian language.

True.

"Someday, this war's gonna end."

Well, yes, every war ends --- the sooner, the better. But I'm afraid that the rift --- not to say the hatred --- between Ukrainians and Russians will last for generations to come. The scelerate Putin's megalomaniac dream of reuniting the Russki mir might --- nay, most probably will --- end up in its very opposite.

[Mirror Image]

It doesn't affect one iota. Obviously, if I lived in Russia or Ukraine I'd be whistling a different tune. It's always easier to talk against them when you're a world away, so I choose to keep my mouth shut and only hope that the good and decent will prevail in the end.

[Florestan]

I choose to keep my mouth shut

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

hope that the good and decent will prevail in the end.

That's as good an epitaph as any other.

Sorry, John, absolutely nothing personally, just couldn't resist.