RCA Red Seal, and other seals/marks

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Do you think the recordings of RCA Red Seal are very good? None of the discs I like have the Red Seal. Do you like any recordings with other seal/distinction?

[LKB]

RCA Red Seal recordings, in their original vinyl incarnations, were some of the very best. Some of them were resurrected as SACDs some years ago - l own eleven - and they still impress.

[Jo498]

What was the original difference between red, gold? whatever seal? I don't think it has any real significance in the CD era.

I think RCA has obviously a great back catalogue from the 1930-70s but as I remember it, it was really doing a rather poor job in the earlyish CD era, i.e. 1980s through mid-1990s, both with presentation/distribution (tacky or old-fashioned, in both cases a bit "cheap" looking) and sometimes also with their remasterings. I would not totally condemn the earlier CD issues of Toscanini, Heifetz, Rubinstein (lots of these deservedly "classics of the grammophone") and it was laudable to put this huge amount of recordings out on CD rather early in the era of the medium, but they are often not in great sound, probably partly because of the source material but also because of less than ideal transfers/masterings (many are also in decent sound, but for 1930s-50s recordings there are often considerable gains in transfers/masterings to be had)
I bought some this Rubinstein or Heifetz stuff three times, I think... or for some others I could not be bothered to buy again, e.g. for Toscanini I mostly kept those white/blue ca. 1990 CDs.

[LKB]

There were certainly re-releases in the '70's on Gold Seal which were junk, mainly due to  a process RCA adopted called " Dynagroove " which was intended to cut costs, and lowered the quality of the pressings. Naturally, people started spending their money on the Polygram labels, EMI etc.

So the Red Seal recordings were a high- water mark for RCA, and they wouldn't approach that level of performance again until the CD era. Anyone who has SACD playback is missing out if they don't have those remastered versions.

[fbjim]

What was the original difference between red, gold? whatever seal? I don't think it has any real significance in the CD era.

I think RCA has obviously a great back catalogue from the 1930-70s but as I remember it, it was really doing a rather poor job in the earlyish CD era, i.e. 1980s through mid-1990s, both with presentation/distribution (tacky or old-fashioned, in both cases a bit "cheap" looking) and sometimes also with their remasterings. I would not totally condemn the earlier CD issues of Toscanini, Heifetz, Rubinstein (lots of these deservedly "classics of the grammophone") and it was laudable to put this huge amount of recordings out on CD rather early in the era of the medium, but they are often not in great sound, probably partly because of the source material but also because of less than ideal transfers/masterings (many are also in decent sound, but for 1930s-50s recordings there are often considerable gains in transfers/masterings to be had)
I bought some this Rubinstein or Heifetz stuff three times, I think... or for some others I could not be bothered to buy again, e.g. for Toscanini I mostly kept those white/blue ca. 1990 CDs.

In the CD era it's just a mark on what price point the CDs sold at.

"Red Seal" was the fancy stuff for high profile/new releases, Gold Seal/Victrola was the next step down, and for a bit there was Silver Seal which was budget rereleases. Like many things involving record labels this changed all the time.

[Todd]

RCA Red Seal (aka, a division of Sony Masterworks) has some very fine releases, nowadays coming disproportionately from smaller, national market divisions - eg, Japan, France, Switzerland.  As mentioned, the different seals have denoted price points for a few decades now.  For decades it was a premiere label that pumped out oodles of recordings from some titans, like Rubinstein, Heifetz, etc.  RCA has made thousands of good to great recordings in its 120 year history. 

[fbjim]

These days even that's not so true anymore as things like those budget box sets with the standard album covers like "Charles Munch conducts Berlioz" are under the RCA Red Seal imprint but are very much budget boxes with generic CD art and no liner notes.

Sony also has "Essential Classics" as their (excellent) budget re-release line for a while too.

[VonStupp]

When first investing in CD's, I came to associate Tilson Thomas and San Francisco, Slatkin and St. Louis, and Temirkanov and St. Peterburg with the Red Seal, for just a few examples, aside the renewed LP classics. Outside of the Living Stereo series, I don't think I associated a particular sound quality from them, though. They were easy to get through BMG / Columbia House, however.

Of the many seals, I don't think I ever came across the Silver Seal.

VS

     

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

When first investing in CD's, I came to associate Tilson Thomas and San Francisco, Slatkin and St. Louis, and Temirkanov and St. Peterburg with the Red Seal, for just a few examples, aside the renewed LP classics. Outside of the Living Stereo series, I don't think I associated a particular sound quality from them, though. They were easy to get through BMG / Columbia House, however.

Of the many seals, I don't think I ever came across the Silver Seal.

VS

     

Yes I hugely prefer Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence to the Red Seal.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

RCA Red Seal (aka, a division of Sony Masterworks) has some very fine releases, nowadays coming disproportionately from smaller, national market divisions - eg, Japan, France, Switzerland.  As mentioned, the different seals have denoted price points for a few decades now.  For decades it was a premiere label that pumped out oodles of recordings from some titans, like Rubinstein, Heifetz, etc.  RCA has made thousands of good to great recordings in its 120 year history.

Thank you, Todd. Good explanation!

[fbjim]

Yes I hugely prefer Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence to the Red Seal.

Most (if not all) Living Stereo classical releases were Red Seal. Back then "Red Seal" mostly meant it was RCA's "prestige" brand, i.e. classical music.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Most (if not all) Living Stereo classical releases were Red Seal. Back then "Red Seal" mostly meant it was RCA's "prestige" brand, i.e. classical music.

Thank you for the clarification.
I am not a person with bad understanding skills. But I think I should give up on this. 
I guess I can say I like Living Stereo Red Seal recordings.

[Jo498]

It's different branding/marketing in different eras (LP, CD). In the CD era, paradoxically "Gold seal" apparently are the cheap (or at least midprice) series (like Toscanini, Heifetz, Bream edition) and Red seal are the full price recordings. "RCA Living stereo" was marketed as if it was a separate label. I am also not sure I ever have had a "Silver seal" CD...

As many of the best/most recommended RCA recordings are older, they are often more interesting recordings than the "Red Seal" from the 1980s and 1990s. I certainly have far more "Gold seal".
But what I have as "Red Seal", e.g. the Schubert symphonies with Davis/Dresden has good quality and production values.
There is no quality difference correlating with the Seals in the CD age, I believe; it's only the price and usually more recent recordings.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

As for Silver Seal, I have the below and quite like them. 


   

[fbjim]

It's different branding/marketing in different eras (LP, CD). In the CD era, paradoxically "Gold seal" apparently are the cheap (or at least midprice) series (like Toscanini, Heifetz, Bream edition) and Red seal are the full price recordings. "RCA Living stereo" was marketed as if it was a separate label. I am also not sure I ever have had a "Silver seal" CD...

As many of the best/most recommended RCA recordings are older, they are often more interesting recordings than the "Red Seal" from the 1980s and 1990s. I certainly have far more "Gold seal".
But what I have as "Red Seal", e.g. the Schubert symphonies with Davis/Dresden has good quality and production values.
There is no quality difference correlating with the Seals in the CD age, I believe; it's only the price and usually more recent recordings.

Also in the LP days they'd rerelease the big release Living Stereo records as Victrola (often called VICS for the catalog code) and they frequently sound just as good as the more collectable Living Stereo pressings!

I think they even used the Victrola name for some budget CD back catalog rereleases too a la Decca Ovation or Sony Essential Classics.

[vandermolen]

Two of my (RCA Red Seal) favourite recordings (both best versions IMO) which never made it to CD:

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Two of my (RCA Red Seal) favourite recordings (both best versions IMO) which never made it to CD:

I didn't know that the Khachturian 1 was Red Seal. Great performance and I agree that probably it is the best version. Hope it will be issued in CD format some day. The Bax looks interesting since it has a logo, not a seal, of Read Seal. I've never seen it before.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Also in the LP days they'd rerelease the big release Living Stereo records as Victrola (often called VICS for the catalog code) and they frequently sound just as good as the more collectable Living Stereo pressings!

I think they even used the Victrola name for some budget CD back catalog rereleases too a la Decca Ovation or Sony Essential Classics.

I've never seen Victoria recordings. Sounds very interesting though.

[Roasted Swan]

I didn't know that the Khachturian 1 was Red Seal. Great performance and I agree that probably it is the best version. Hope it will be issued in CD format some day. The Bax looks interesting since it has a logo, not a seal, of Read Seal. I've never seen it before.

The Bax ended up re-released on Gold Seal which was the version I knew;



My copy of the LP is long gone but my memory was that consideration of the performances suffered from a sub-par transfer and LP pressing - particularly if at that time you were making sonic comparisons to the other Bax Symphonies on Lyrita for example....

[Holden]

I have two CDs of the Reiner Rossini Overtures. One is Gold Seal and the other is Living Stereo. The Gold Seal is somewhat muffled and the imaging and sound stage is so-so. The Living Stereo is vastly superior in sound quality. An expansive soundstage, pinpoint imaging, clear midrange and treble and a greater dynamic range. It's almost like comparing cassette tape to a CD without the hiss.