Frank Martin

[jlaurson]

I'm just stating, rather passively, that I don't find anything about the Martin VC that stimulates my mind or heart. In other words, it's a useless work to me.

What happened to that good attitude from earlier... about trying and trying again. All you are really saying is that you've not found the work to (potentially) withstand a mediocre performance (whereas Britten, for you, does). That's not to say that the Martin concerto might not end up a dud to your ears even in the best of performances, but it's too early to call, I'd reckon.

[Mirror Image]

What happened to that good attitude from earlier... about trying and trying again. All you are really saying is that you've not found the work to (potentially) withstand a mediocre performance (whereas Britten, for you, does). That's not to say that the Martin concerto might not end up a dud to your ears even in the best of performances, but it's too early to call, I'd reckon.

I've heard Martin's VC at least 11 or 12 times. Each time I got nothing from it. So, I would say at this juncture it's safe to say that this work isn't for me, but I didn't close off the possibility of finding a Martin work that does do it for me.

[Daverz]

I'm not trying to describe the music or explain the differences between the two works. Like I said, I'm not comparing anything. Where are you getting this? I'm just stating, rather passively, that I don't find anything about the Martin VC that stimulates my mind or heart.

That kind of observation is fine in a thread like "What are you listening to."  I've posted there about my travails with Carter's orchestral music.  But I wouldn't think of posting about that in a thread devoted to Carter.  What would be the point?

[Mirror Image]

That kind of observation is fine in a thread like "What are you listening to."  I've posted there about my travails with Carter's orchestral music.  But I wouldn't think of posting about that in a thread devoted to Carter.  What would be the point?

This thread is about Frank Martin. I came here to just give an observation. I didn't know it would turn into WWIII.

[Mirror Image]

What's everybody's opinion of Golgotha? I've heard this described as one of Frank Martin's best works.

[Daverz]

I've heard Martin's VC at least 11 or 12 times.

11 or 12 times?!  What possessed you to do that?  I can quite imagine wearing out a piece that I just was not connecting to by listening to it that many times, especially if the performances were not very engaging.  When that happens, it's best just to put the music aside, perhaps even for several years.

[Mirror Image]

11 or 12 times?!  What possessed you to do that?  I can quite imagine wearing out a piece that I just was not connecting to by listening to it that many times, especially if the performances were not very engaging.  When that happens, it's best just to put the music aside, perhaps even for several years.

This was over a period of 2 years, Daverz. I listened to both the Ansermet and MD&G recordings. I didn't listen to this work over and over again. No, that definitely wouldn't have been a good idea.

[Daverz]

This thread is about Frank Martin. I came here to just give an observation. I didn't know it would turn into WWIII.

But you don't have anything to say about Frank Martin.  You've only talked about...Mirror Image.  What an appropriate handle.

[Mirror Image]

But you don't have anything to say about Frank Martin.  You've only talked about...Mirror Image.  What an appropriate handle.

So I didn't mention Frank Martin or talk about him when I said:

I'm still trying to understand Martin. A former GMG member raved about his music a good bit. What exactly am I missing? I own the entire Chandos series plus a 2-CD set with Ansermet and the MD&G series of the concerti.

[Mirror Image]

And yet nobody has told me what I'm missing in Martin's music, so this question remains open. What is it about his music that keeps you coming back?

[jlaurson]

And yet nobody has told me what I'm missing in Martin's music, so this question remains open. What is it about his music that keeps you coming back?

If you can wait half a year or a year, I'm working on a book (editing and humbly co-authoring a vastly expanded second edition) that will attempt to answer precisely that question. (With one of its chapters, at least.)

[Mirror Image]

If you can wait half a year or a year, I'm working on a book (editing and humbly co-authoring a vastly expanded second edition) that will attempt to answer precisely that question. (With one of its chapters, at least.)

I thought you didn't care much for Martin's music, Jens? I find it curious to be working a book about a composer that you don't show much affinity for. That would be like myself writing a book on Boulez.

[jlaurson]

I thought you didn't care much for Martin's music, Jens? I find it curious to be working a book about a composer that you don't show much affinity for. That would be like myself writing a book on Boulez.

Firstly I have a very considerable affinity for Martin's music. I just struggle on occasion getting there. (And the Mass for Double Choir is something I appreciate more than I love.) Tryptichon, Polyptique, Cto. for Harpsichord, Requiem, Der Sturm... those, I think, are great works. The conciseness of Martin, the earnesty [sic]...  Secondly, it's not just about Martin (he's got a chapter), and thirdly that's not the chapter I'm penning.

[Mirror Image]

Firstly I have a very considerable affinity for Martin's music. I just struggle on occasion getting there. (And the Mass for Double Choir is something I appreciate more than I love.) Tryptichon, Polyptique, Cto. for Harpsichord, Requiem, Der Sturm... those, I think, are great works. The conciseness of Martin, the earnesty [sic]...  Secondly, it's not just about Martin (he's got a chapter), and thirdly that's not the chapter I'm penning.

Okay, Jens.

[snyprrr]

I didn't know it would turn into WWIII.

We're right, you're wrong! See, war over!!

I would definitely say that problem 'A' is that MDG.

When I first heard the VC (on that Australian label, the performance NO ONE but me is talking about (I don't remember the performance)) I came to it after reading about how it was the Secret Masterpiece VC of the 20th Century. And I believe I've heard the Decca also. And I've recently just sampled the 'definitive' Jecklin version on YouTube.

Why don't you first compare your MDG with the 'definitive' one (the fans' phrase) on YT? I thought it might need the DG sound treatment (I've never expect sound quality from Jecklin (my problem)),... but,... for all the 'luminescence' that this score is supposed to have, it would seem that it NEEDS an ultra modern recording?

When I was sampling the other day, the Cello Concerto was the work that pricked up my ears. When I listened to the VC, I thought it needed a better overall presentation (I know, I'm being a dick). I'd like to know what you think of the Cello Concerto (the YT is serviceable).

If you want to compare, perhaps compare Martin to Pijper? Masters of Grey,... if you don't like grey?...

I'm gonna go try this VC on YT again... 'colors' 'bright'

[snyprrr]

Just listened to the 'definitive' YT recording, Composer conducting.

Well, it's a sound quality issue for me, and it's not YT. I think, in its best light, this VC SHOULD come off 'sounding' (Notice quotes) like the classic, creamy Mutter version of the Berg. Do ya hear me here?

And Mr. Schn. on violin,... definitive or not, wouldn't someone like Mutter (or whoever you know) just make buttah out of this, with some creamy orchestra with sumptuous conducting? In the YT, the violin is just not 'magically' situated, robbing the whole piece of much nuance. The orchestra is just that one notch too distant also. And, surely someone other the Composer himself might take the music that one notch more relaxed?

Can't ya hear it?

The sound hitting my ears was not so impressive, but my perfect mental image of what it COULD sound like was enough for me. I think it IS a Big Piece that really just needs absolute perfection in every area (including sound).

[Daverz]

Just listened to the 'definitive' YT recording, Composer conducting.

Well, it's a sound quality issue for me, and it's not YT. I think, in its best light, this VC SHOULD come off 'sounding' (Notice quotes) like the classic, creamy Mutter version of the Berg. Do ya hear me here?

And Mr. Schn. on violin,... definitive or not, wouldn't someone like Mutter (or whoever you know) just make buttah out of this, with some creamy orchestra with sumptuous conducting? In the YT, the violin is just not 'magically' situated, robbing the whole piece of much nuance. The orchestra is just that one notch too distant also. And, surely someone other the Composer himself might take the music that one notch more relaxed?

Can't ya hear it?

The sound hitting my ears was not so impressive, but my perfect mental image of what it COULD sound like was enough for me. I think it IS a Big Piece that really just needs absolute perfection in every area (including sound).

I wouldn't judge a recording by whatever sludge Youtube makes of it.

The work certainly deserves to be recorded more often.  However, I think smoothing over ala Anne-Sophie Mutter is the last thing the piece needs.  I'm hoping for a James Ehnes recording.

[snyprrr]

I wouldn't judge a recording by whatever sludge Youtube makes of it.

The work certainly deserves to be recorded more often.  However, I think smoothing over ala Anne-Sophie Mutter is the last thing the piece needs.  I'm hoping for a James Ehnes recording.

That's fine. I just need some major engineers,... hey, if the Jecklin 'sound' was 'definitive', I'd have no real problem with that version. Still, and I'm surely talking out of my rear, but I just didn't care for Sch./violinist's playing, or something. But, the 'airy' recording is my main problem.

Why Chandos couldn't have done for it what it did for Norgard's VC,...?

[pjme]

For those who like Martin's music and happen to be in Amsterdam...On March 22nd and march 24th.
vhttp://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/nl/concerten/Programma/Golgotha-van-Frank-Martin/


Stéphane Denève
Dirigent
Susan Gritton
Sopraan
Kate Aldrich
Sopraan
Yann Beuron
Tenor
Laurent Naouri
Bariton
Vincent Le Texier
Bariton

Groot Omroepkoor

Het Concertgebouworkest

Standaard 
Rang 4  € 22.50 
Rang 3  € 36.00 
Rang 2  € 45.00 
Rang 1  € 60.80 
Rang 1+  € 85.50 


Golgotha

Frank Martin Niet Bach maar Frank Martin staat centraal in het weekend voor Pasen. In 2009 gaf het KCO een nieuwe impuls aan de passietraditie met een moderne passie van James MacMillan. Dit seizoen wordt de vernieuwing voortgezet met Martins Golgotha. Een KCO-première met een Nederlands tintje; Martin was Zwitser, maar verhuisde in 1946 naar Nederland en voltooide hier zijn passieoratorium.

Voor Golgotha liet hij zich inspireren door zijn grote voorbeeld Bach en de tekening 'De drie kruizen' van Rembrandt. Toch stond hij tegelijkertijd met beide benen in het heden. De cast is volledig nieuw: de dirigent en ook de solisten maken allemaal hun debuut bij het orkest. Maar voor de grote koorpartij tekent het vertrouwde Groot Omroepkoor.

[The new erato]

Still, and I'm surely talking out of my rear,

But, the 'airy' recording is my main problem.

This seems wonderfully appropriate.