Sibelius Chamber Music

[Don]

A new release from BIS of the Sibelius chamber music got me to thinking about this area of his output.  He's not famous for these works, and I wonder how good they are and which works among them are his best.  Also, any recommendations for recordings?

[Robert]

A new release from BIS of the Sibelius chamber music got me to thinking about this area of his output.  He's not famous for these works, and I wonder how good they are and which works among them are his best.  Also, any recommendations for recordings?

Don,
I have the four quartets by Sibelius Academy Qt.  I have had it about 4 years. I am not particularly pleased with it. I am just lazy to pursue others available. That said, I will say besides the fourth Voces Intimae (my favorite) I rather enjoy the third B flat op4. The other two leave me flat. (E and A). Perhaps a different recording. I do not know if that will change my mind about E & A. 

[Lethevich]

I'm the same as Robert, his chamber music just isn't very good. I would especially recommend avoiding the piano music without sampling it first (I have two discs on Naxos, plus whatever is in the BIS "best of" Sibelius box). The Voces Intimae quartet is often cited as a "beyond the norm" example of his output, but there isn't really much else worthwhile (that quartet itself is pretty good)... The BIS box also had a disc with the Korpo Trio and Piano Quintet on - they were kinda... reasonable, but there must be hundreds of composers more worth exploring. I don't want to be one of those nay-sayers who say "crap" in reponse to requests about obscure repetoire, but IMO his chamber music really is surprisingly weak...

Edit: Not saying don't listen, but excercise caution

[Don]

I'm the same as Robert, his chamber music just isn't very good. I would especially recommend avoiding the piano music without sampling it first (I have two discs on Naxos, plus whatever is in the BIS "best of" Sibelius box). The Voces Intimae quartet is often cited as a "beyond the norm" example of his output, but there isn't really much else worthwhile (that quartet itself is pretty good)... The BIS box also had a disc with the Korpo Trio and Piano Quintet on - they were kinda... reasonable, but there must be hundreds of composers more worth exploring. I don't want to be one of those nay-sayers who say "crap" in reponse to requests about obscure repetoire, but IMO his chamber music really is surprisingly weak...

Edit: Not saying don't listen, but excercise caution

I'm chuckling because I'm very familar with his solo piano music, very much a "hit or miss" category of his total work.  By the way, Mustonen makes the Sibelius piano music sound much better than the norm.

But yes, I will exercise caution with the chamber music.  So far, I've exercised so much caution that I don't have any of it.

[Lethevich]

I'm chuckling because I'm very familar with his solo piano music, very much a "hit or miss" category of his total work.  By the way, Mustonen makes the Sibelius piano music sound much better than the norm.

But yes, I will exercise caution with the chamber music.  So far, I've exercised so much caution that I don't have any of it.

Oops I got caught out assuming that you weren't using the strict definition of chamber (excluding piano), I suck I hope you find something good to recommend me by the time you've finished your search

[longears]

Voces Intimae is Sibelius's only mature string quartet.  Most of his chamber music was written for income, relatively simple, pleasant works intended for amateur performance at home.  It scarcely bears comparison with his orchestral works--but then, precious little by anyone does.  Among my favorite recordings of his more intimate works, I especially enjoy:

[Don]

Oops I got caught out assuming that you weren't using the strict definition of chamber (excluding piano), I suck I hope you find something good to recommend me by the time you've finished your search

Yes.  To me, chamber music never includes solo piano music - or harpsichord - or violin - or whatever.

[Harry]

Well I totally disagree about the quality of Sibelius chamber Music.
For a starter I do not understand the attacks his piano music has to endure. I find it totally satisfying and very well written compositions. Erik T. has recorded all of his piano works, and good they are, infact the best there are. Naxos's recordings are mediocre. His SQ are amongst the best I know, and there are many good recordings. He did not write a single bad piece of chamber music, that I am aware of, but then as some posters think my standard is very low, so I like everything.

[Robert]

Well I totally disagree about the quality of Sibelius chamber Music.
For a starter I do not understand the attacks his piano music has to endure. I find it totally satisfying and very well written compositions. Erik T. has recorded all of his piano works, and good they are, infact the best there are. Naxos's recordings are mediocre. His SQ are amongst the best I know, and there are many good recordings. He did not write a single bad piece of chamber music, that I am aware of, but then as some posters think my standard is very low, so I like everything.

Harry,
Will you please list a few of the recordings of his Chamber music you recommend.  I do not own any of his piano music so I cannot comment about them. Only two of his quartets (mentioned above) do I find to my  liking. I never said I did not like his Quartets.  I said perhaps it was the recording that left me cold....

[Harry]

Harry,
Will you please list a few of the recordings of his Chamber music you recommend.  I do not own any of his piano music so I cannot comment about them. Only two of his quartets (mentioned above) do I find to my  liking. I never said I did not like his Quartets.  I said perhaps it was the recording that left me cold....

I was not attacking you my friend, but it was meant in general.
There are not many cd's with the chamberworks from Sibelius, but BIS has 4 cd's full with small scaled chamber music works, which are very well played and recorded. I have them, and do enjoy it. However sample before you buy.
The SQ are a difficult thing for me, but I enjoyed a CPO recording recently bought for 1,99 euro at JPC. But only one SQ coupled with Alban Berg. You cannot go wrong with the BIS recordings Robert, wether you like the works is a different question.

[Robert]

I was not attacking you my friend, but it was meant in general.
There are not many cd's with the chamberworks from Sibelius, but BIS has 4 cd's full with small scaled chamber music works, which are very well played and recorded. I have them, and do enjoy it. However sample before you buy.
The SQ are a difficult thing for me, but I enjoyed a CPO recording recently bought for 1,99 euro at JPC. But only one SQ coupled with Alban Berg. You cannot go wrong with the BIS recordings Robert, wether you like the works is a different question.

Thanks for that Harry. I guess you are referring to Tempera QT. It looks like volume 1 is quite expensive. Amazon wants $60.00 for it. The second disc is more reasonable. I guess the first one is OOP. Have  you heard the Melos Qt?  I have a new chamber music disc by Emerson Qt  called Intimate Voices. The Sibelius is far and away the winner on this disc.  Too bad they did not record the other three.

[Harry]

Thanks for that Harry. I guess you are referring to Tempera QT. It looks like volume 1 is quite expensive. Amazon wants $60.00 for it. The second disc is more reasonable. I guess the first one is OOP. Have  you heard the Melos Qt?  I have a new chamber music disc by Emerson Qt  called Intimate Voices. The Sibelius is far and away the winner on this disc.  Too bad they did not record the other three.

It looks like its OOP yes, I have lent my set to a friend in Germany, so I will call him next week, to return the discs.
I have heard the Melos, yes, and quite liked it, however I am still looking for the something special, in these SQ.
Do you have a complete recording of all the sibelius SQ?
They always record the same SQ which is a pity.

[Robert]

It looks like its OOP yes, I have lent my set to a friend in Germany, so I will call him next week, to return the discs.
I have heard the Melos, yes, and quite liked it, however I am still looking for the something special, in these SQ.
Do you have a complete recording of all the sibelius SQ?
They always record the same SQ which is a pity.

Harry
see my original post up above.....

[DavidW]

I'm with the others on this thread-- usually chamber music >> orchestral, but not for Sibelius, his chamber music is good, but it's not great.  I enjoy them, and others might too, but for me it lacks the emotional resonance and depth that his symphonies have.

[jochanaan]

My only experience with anything resembling chamber music by Sibelius was a radio program of the sort where musicians, critics, etc., try to guess what's playing.  The host played a piece for brass ensemble that sounded, not just "fair" or "uninspired," but actually BAD!  The guests's jaws dropped--so the host said--when told it was Sibelius!  Doubly amazing considering the magnificent brass writing in his symphonies and tone poems.

That experience led me to believe that, with so much other good music out there, it wasn't really necessary to explore Sibelius' music for small ensembles.  (This actually surprises me a little when I think about it.  Sibelius wrote for a moderate-sized orchestra, in direct contrast to other early 20th-C. composers such as Mahler, R. Strauss, Schoenberg or early Stravinsky; you'd think that with such tastes in orchestration, Sibelius would be good in the smaller forms too.)

[karlhenning]

Voces Intimae is Sibelius's only mature string quartet.  Most of his chamber music was written for income, relatively simple, pleasant works intended for amateur performance at home.

That doesn't mean it has to be bad.

[jochanaan]

That doesn't mean it has to be bad.

Uh, good point. Much of Mozart's music was written for exactly that reason.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

IMO Sibelius is one of the most underrated chamber music composers. Even though majority of his chamber music works are from before his break-through as a composer of Kullervo, they show amazing, tremendous skill, in many of them even genius. While it's partially true that Sibelius wasn't greatest piano composer there is, some of his chamber music works with piano such as violin sonatina E major op. 80, piano quintet G minor and F major violin sonata (and several of short pieces for violin and piano) show that he could compose effectively to this instrument. Also his early string quartets are among his most mature early works: E flat major quartet and B flat major quartet are impressive classistic works and A minor quartet is a composition of young genius, I would even call so far as to call it his first truly sibelian work, almost completely free of influence from other composers. Then of course there is his greatest chamber music work (and unfortunately essentially the only one in general repertoire): Voces intimae, one of my favorite string quartets of all time.

It always kind of bothers me that Sibelius is known mainly for his orchestral works such as symphonies, symphonic poems and of course the violin concerto. I wish more people would pay attention to this unduly neglected part of his repertoire that in several points shows the highest point of his genius mind.

Edit and offtopic: Actually, scratch that: many of his symphonic poems are also neglected. This surprises me: because of frequent performances of his symphonic poems back here in Finland I always (perhaps naively) assumed that they were quite well liked, at least in english speaking countries. But when I look everywhere for greatest symphonic poems lists the only ones from Sibelius I usually see are Tapiola and Finlandia. I am shocked not even my favorite symphonic poem from Sibelius, Pohjola's daughter, whom I thought had made it's way to general repertoire, makes an appearance in some of those lists.

Anyone with me (sorry for possible hype!)?

[NJ Joe]

IMO Sibelius is one of the most underrated chamber music composers. Even though majority of his chamber music works are from before his break-through as a composer of Kullervo, they show amazing, tremendous skill, in many of them even genius. While it's partially true that Sibelius wasn't greatest piano composer there is, some of his chamber music works with piano such as violin sonatina E major op. 80, piano quintet G minor and F major violin sonata (and several of short pieces for violin and piano) show that he could compose effectively to this instrument. Also his early string quartets are among his most mature early works: E flat major quartet and B flat major quartet are impressive classistic works and A minor quartet is a composition of young genius, I would even call so far as to call it his first truly sibelian work, almost completely free of influence from other composers. Then of course there is his greatest chamber music work (and unfortunately essentially the only one in general repertoire): Voces intimae, one of my favorite string quartets of all time.

It always kind of bothers me that Sibelius is known mainly for his orchestral works such as symphonies, symphonic poems and of course the violin concerto. I wish more people would pay attention to this unduly neglected part of his repertoire that in several points shows the highest point of his genius mind.

Edit and offtopic: Actually, scratch that: many of his symphonic poems are also neglected. This surprises me: because of frequent performances of his symphonic poems back here in Finland I always (perhaps naively) assumed that they were quite well liked, at least in english speaking countries. But when I look everywhere for greatest symphonic poems lists the only ones from Sibelius I usually see are Tapiola and Finlandia. I am shocked not even my favorite symphonic poem from Sibelius, Pohjola's daughter, whom I thought had made it's way to general repertoire, makes an appearance in some of those lists.

Anyone with me (sorry for possible hype!)?

Hi Alberich,

Thanks for your great post!  Although I'm unfamiliar with Sibelius' chamber works, including Voces intimae, I am very interested in hearing them.  Would you (or anyone else who replies to this thread for that matter) care to list some recommended recordings?

[Jaakko Keskinen]

These links show couple of pretty decent recording:

http://inkpot.com/classical/sibcham1.html
                                     
http://www.allmusic.com/album/jean-sibelius-early-chamber-music-vol-2-mw0001814850

Of course it is possible that you don't like these: Sibelius is not for everyone, I understand that. One must also remember that these early works are compositions of a young man, a student. Mastery of form is not always perfect but I think, considering how young the composer was, that most of these are excellent, some of them could even be mistaken for works of older Sibelius.Recordings about voces intimae are much easier to find, but I can't recommeng one single recording. I have never been particularly selective about recordings: so long as tempo is correct and the playing is smooth I won't complain.