To boldly go ... (Star Trek)

[Karl Henning]

[Karl Henning]

Oh, did I laugh ....

"acting way better than Star Trek deserves"
"The Future is Woke"

[Karl Henning]

There are so relatively few "red shirt" events in The Next Generation, that they are quite impactful. 

[relm1]

I'm a trekker too preferring the old school over the newer ones.  Not so much a fan of JJ Abrams reboots...too far from what makes the original so memorable.

[Ganondorf]

A huge Star Trek fan here. My favorite series is DS9. It's cynical tone compared to its more idealistic predecessors may bother some but not me. I see no reason why backstabbing couldn't possibly have its place in Star Trek universe. Everything doesn't have to stay the same. Roddenberry's vision is not the only correct one.

That being said, I do enjoy greatly TOS and TNG, too.

[Karl Henning]

A huge Star Trek fan here. My favorite series is DS9. It's cynical tone compared to its more idealistic predecessors may bother some but not me. I see no reason why backstabbing couldn't possibly have its place in Star Trek universe. Everything doesn't have to stay the same. Roddenberry's vision is not the only correct one.

That being said, I do enjoy greatly TOS and TNG, too.

I don't think I'm opposed to the post-TNG series. I'm giving myself time to absorb TNG better. This is my second go through the seven seasons, and now and again I watch an ep which I think I somehow missed the first go-round. Beyond that, I'm overwhelmed by the ongoing franchise, and may just stick with the Trek I already known and love.

[DavidW]

I've been watching season 3 of Picard.  Looks like the show finally delivers on an unspoken promise.  Bring the old cast back for one last adventure.  Writing seems decent this time around.  Don't expect it to look or feel like old trek, but still enjoyable so far.

[VonStupp]

I've been watching season 3 of Picard.  Looks like the show finally delivers on an unspoken promise.  Bring the old cast back for one last adventure.  Writing seems decent this time around.  Don't expect it to look or feel like old trek, but still enjoyable so far.

It will be a while before I can get around to Season 3, but this is good to hear!
VS

[relm1]

I've been watching season 3 of Picard.  Looks like the show finally delivers on an unspoken promise.  Bring the old cast back for one last adventure.  Writing seems decent this time around.  Don't expect it to look or feel like old trek, but still enjoyable so far.

I haven't seen s1 or s2.  Do I need to see those first?  I might have tried the first episode of S1 and hated it.  But not all series are the original series - perfect from the start.  TNG had lots of missed episodes early but got better later. 

[relm1]

I don't think I'm opposed to the post-TNG series. I'm giving myself time to absorb TNG better. This is my second go through the seven seasons, and now and again I watch an ep which I think I somehow missed the first go-round. Beyond that, I'm overwhelmed by the ongoing franchise, and may just stick with the Trek I already known and love.

I'm sort of like you but open to TNG.  It definitely isn't TOS (The Original Series).  Early episodes tried to remake TOS.  Riker as womanizing kirk, data as spock, etc.  Characters became far more interesting when the series became character focused rather than episodic.  I think it was good to shed the old writers/producers like Roddenberry and D.C. Fontana.  The early episode where the cast lectured Wesley about drugs makes me want to puke.  In contrast, TOS was episodic with character focus throughout.  The complexity of the characters never really happened in TNG but they became more three dimensional with interesting backstories, something we lack in TOS.  TNG had some major issues with casting which made it hard to accept for TOS fans since that had flawless casting.  I think DS9 has some fantastic episodes, rich characters but lacking in the adventure and optimism aspects.  A very fine development of the mythos.  Voyager, was hit and miss.  Good episodes, lousy episodes, so so casting, just didn't feel Star Trek.  I never saw an episode of Enterprise.  I couldn't get in to Discovery.  Very much enjoy Strange New Worlds.  Haven't seen an episode beyond the premiere of Picard which was very meh.  Think Orville is great Star Trek for those who like 80's/90's ST. 

I love the original series theatrical films but find V to be a story telling and execution misfire other than Goldsmith's score.  I enjoy most of the next gen films other than nemesis which is boring.  The peak of course being First Contact which balanced and expanding on great character depth, involving story, fantastic villain (what makes the best theatrical films great), sense of wonder and humor.  I find JJ Abrams reboot to be generally popcorn flicks.  Entertaining, but not Star Trek.  Zero cerebral which is part of the DNA of ST.

[Karl Henning]

First Contact

I really enjoy TNG overall, and First Contact. I don't find myself interested in other TNG features.

[DavidW]

I haven't seen s1 or s2.  Do I need to see those first?  I might have tried the first episode of S1 and hated it.  But not all series are the original series - perfect from the start.  TNG had lots of missed episodes early but got better later. 

On a rewatch, I was surprised how absolutely awful the first two seasons of TNG were.  I really can't think of any other Star Trek series that flopped so badly right out of the gate.  I'm glad that it wasn't cancelled because it was ultimately a great show.

The new Trek shows never reached that level, but they feel tonally off.  They are more like big budget action blockbusters and less like Star Trek. 

[relm1]

On a rewatch, I was surprised how absolutely awful the first two seasons of TNG were.  I really can't think of any other Star Trek series that flopped so badly right out of the gate.  I'm glad that it wasn't cancelled because it was ultimately a great show.

The new Trek shows never reached that level, but they feel tonally off.  They are more like big budget action blockbusters and less like Star Trek. 

True but there were still some very fine episodes in TNG S1 and S2 (just few of them).  Examples are when Q forced the Enterprise to first encounter the Borg was a great episode.  Measure of a Man was classic Trek worthy of TOS.  They introduced a wonderful series of episodes with Professor Moriarty in S2. 

I kind of think of S2 as somewhat on par with TOS S3, a few misfires but some very memorable episodes that have aged well.  The bulk of the episodes from these seasons are meh with a few cringe moments. 

What say you on Wesley's character?  I was around his age at that time and absolutely hated his character on the show or that the Enterprise should include families.  Just didn't make sense to me and anytime that was referenced, it slammed the brakes on the enjoyment for me.

[krummholz]

True but there were still some very fine episodes in TNG S1 and S2 (just few of them).  Examples are when Q forced the Enterprise to first encounter the Borg was a great episode.  Measure of a Man was classic Trek worthy of TOS.  They introduced a wonderful series of episodes with Professor Moriarty in S2. 

I kind of think of S2 as somewhat on par with TOS S3, a few misfires but some very memorable episodes that have aged well.  The bulk of the episodes from these seasons are meh with a few cringe moments. 

What say you on Wesley's character?  I was around his age at that time and absolutely hated his character on the show or that the Enterprise should include families.  Just didn't make sense to me and anytime that was referenced, it slammed the brakes on the enjoyment for me.

I agree pretty much on all points. Never cared for Wesley's character or the idea that he had some supernatural mental abilities. But his being on the Enterprise bothered me less, because (after all) he was Dr. Crusher's son. I bought into that to the same degree that I bought into Jake Sisko on DS9 - though admittedly DS9 was a space station rather than a starship.

[DavidW]

I think that Wesley's character was poorly written.  I teach gifted teens and they are closer to Jake Sisko in personality.  A mess of seriousness, practical jokes, soul searching, crushes etc.  But I still like the episode where Wesley and Picard are stuck in a cave and Picard is seriously injured.  I also like the episode where he and Ashley Judd's character discover that the rest of the crew are addicted to a game.  Both episodes show a more human aspect to his character, and allow Wesley to shine without being obnoxious or a Gary Stu.

[Karl Henning]

But I still like the episode where Wesley and Picard are stuck in a cave and Picard is seriously injured.  I also like the episode where he and Ashley Judd's character discover that the rest of the crew are addicted to a game.  Both episodes show a more human aspect to his character, and allow Wesley to shine without being obnoxious....

Yes. I do also like the "fatality as the result of a stunt" coverup episode. Viz. Wesley being poorly written, perhaps that's partly the result of a stable of writers, and sometimes they think, What can we do with this character?...

[LKB]

I'm an original Trekker ( not the only one here, to be sure ), having watched the first NBC broadcasts of many of the episodes of TOS ( except for season three, which was on after my bedtime ).

Being a young boy, I loved the show for the surface content, as a Sci-Fi adventure. So my favorite episodes were those such as Balance of Terror, the first appearance of the Romulans; The Corbomite Maneuver, Charlie X, The Man Trap, Shore Leave, etc.

Shatner's Kirk was cool. Never panicked, led his crew well, wasn't afraid to duke it out ( with either fists or the Enterprise ) when required. His only flaw was this weird preoccupation with women... but nobody's perfect.

Nimoy's Spock was both exotic and formidable. He always had either the solution to a major crisis, or the way to reach one. Never flustered or confused, always confident, loyal to his captain, a perfect executive and Science Officer yet prepared to command when required.

DeForest Kelley's McCoy was mostly a puzzle to me. As the show's comedy was aimed at adults, his verbal jousting with Spock came across as mere irritability. And he was the Voice of Doom as well - when " Bones " knelt down to assess anyone lying motionless on the floor or the surface of some unfamiliar planet... well, even the juvenile version of yours truly knew what was probably coming:

https://youtu.be/MH7KYmGnj40

Star Trek was unlike anything anyone had seen before, and although the change didn't happen overnight and wasn't even acknowledged for years, American television was forever altered... as was a young boy in California. 

[relm1]

I'm an original Trekker ( not the only one here, to be sure ), having watched the first NBC broadcasts of many of the episodes of TOS ( except for season three, which was on after my bedtime ).

Being a young boy, I loved the show for the surface content, as a Sci-Fi adventure. So my favorite episodes were those such as Balance of Terror, the first appearance of the Romulans; The Corbomite Maneuver, Charlie X, The Man Trap, Shore Leave, etc.

Shatner's Kirk was cool. Never panicked, led his crew well, wasn't afraid to duke it out ( with either fists or the Enterprise ) when required. His only flaw was this weird preoccupation with women... but nobody's perfect.

Nimoy's Spock was both exotic and formidable. He always had either the solution to a major crisis, or the way to reach one. Never flustered or confused, always confident, loyal to his captain, a perfect executive and Science Officer yet prepared to command when required.

DeForest Kelley's McCoy was mostly a puzzle to me. As the show's comedy was aimed at adults, his verbal jousting with Spock came across as mere irritability. And he was the Voice of Doom as well - when " Bones " knelt down to assess anyone lying motionless on the floor or the surface of some unfamiliar planet... well, even the juvenile version of yours truly knew what was probably coming:

https://youtu.be/MH7KYmGnj40

Star Trek was unlike anything anyone had seen before, and although the change didn't happen overnight and wasn't even acknowledged for years, American television was forever altered... as was a young boy in California. 

Lovely comments.  But wasn't Twilight Zone also unlike anything else at that time?  As was much of tv?  Or was ST TOS different even from those? 

[LKB]

Lovely comments.  But wasn't Twilight Zone also unlike anything else at that time?  As was much of tv?  Or was ST TOS different even from those? 

Star Trek was unique, and distinct from the brilliant Twilight Zone as well as anything which had come before, or was contemporary with TOS.

The difference lay in Gene Roddenberry's motivations and intent for the series. Roddenberry wanted to touch on sensitive themes that were taboo in American television during the 1960's, and yet were vital and relevant within the daily functioning of American society. Racial matters, the war in Southeast Asia, ideological friction ( both within the country and between the USA and others powers ), socioeconomic inequality.

All were deserving of exposition and exploration in prime time, but were either implicitly or explicitly forbidden by the network executives because they were controversial, and thus posed a financial risk if a portion of the viewing audience were offended.

What Roddenberry did was simple and elegant. He took these controversial themes, and transferred them to alien race X on planet Y. In doing so, humans were removed to a peripheral observing or assisting role, and all of the " Sturm und Drang " took place among the invented aliens. Therefore nobody in NBC's audience would be offended, so the executives didn't care.

Roddenberry had an unusual background for a Hollywood producer. He had been a cop, and an airline pilot. During WWII he had flown B-17s in the south pacific for the USAAC. So by the time he conceived Star Trek, he had both witnessed and participated in actual high-stakes, real-world drama.

One other facet of Roddenberry is crucial: he was possessed of an intense, indomitable optimism. He was certain that we wouldn't blow ourselves up, poison the earth beyond saving or otherwise destroy ourselves.

This gave him an even broader dramatic canvas to work with. He need not limit himself to merely an American point of view; as the nations of Earth had finally come together within his general context, he merely had to acknowledge basic human needs and limitations, and present the story in terms of dramatic action and possible solutions, whether they came from Spock, Kirk or some alien participant.

A truly visionary talent he was, Mr. Roddenberry.

[Karl Henning]

I'm an original Trekker ( not the only one here, to be sure ), having watched the first NBC broadcasts of many of the episodes of TOS ( except for season three, which was on after my bedtime ).

Being a young boy, I loved the show for the surface content, as a Sci-Fi adventure. So my favorite episodes were those such as Balance of Terror, the first appearance of the Romulans; The Corbomite Maneuver, Charlie X, The Man Trap, Shore Leave, etc.

Shatner's Kirk was cool. Never panicked, led his crew well, wasn't afraid to duke it out ( with either fists or the Enterprise ) when required. His only flaw was this weird preoccupation with women... but nobody's perfect.

Nimoy's Spock was both exotic and formidable. He always had either the solution to a major crisis, or the way to reach one. Never flustered or confused, always confident, loyal to his captain, a perfect executive and Science Officer yet prepared to command when required.

DeForest Kelley's McCoy was mostly a puzzle to me. As the show's comedy was aimed at adults, his verbal jousting with Spock came across as mere irritability. And he was the Voice of Doom as well - when " Bones " knelt down to assess anyone lying motionless on the floor or the surface of some unfamiliar planet... well, even the juvenile version of yours truly knew what was probably coming:

https://youtu.be/MH7KYmGnj40

Star Trek was unlike anything anyone had seen before, and although the change didn't happen overnight and wasn't even acknowledged for years, American television was forever altered... as was a young boy in California. 

Star Trek
 was come and gone, and in syndication by the time I was aware of it. I had schoolmates who were fans, and I was largely firsthand ignorant and curious. However TV viewing chez nous ran, I don't think I ever watched am episode myself until I was in college (I remember seeing "The Devil in the Dark" on Rochester's WXXI on a dinky b&w set my girlfriend had. I was pretty much predisposed to like it, but got to know it first by the feature films.

The difference lay in Gene Roddenberry's motivations and intent for the series. Roddenberry wanted to touch on sensitive themes that were taboo in American television during the 1960's, and yet were vital and relevant within the daily functioning of American society. Racial matters, the war in Southeast Asia, ideological friction ( both within the country and between the USA and others powers ), socioeconomic inequality.

Without gainsaying your core thesis of Star Trek's uniqueness, the italicized item is exactly what drove Serling's creating the Twilight Zone.