The Audiophile Debate

[Todd]

For fun, I popped over to Audio Science Review for the first time in a while and found that measurements of cables have been added, including for this $1000 USB cable (you read that right): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jps-superconductor-v-usb-cable-review.42731/

It ain't even the most expensive USB cable.

Oh, yes, and MQA is now dead.  (I'm behind on audiophile goings-on, I know.)  It joins SACD in the audiophile graveyard.  I'm sure there are fanboys (all boys) who will mourn its demise and sing its praises forever more.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

@Todd A thousand dollar USB cable?! 

PD

[Todd]

@Todd A thousand dollar USB cable?! 

Yep, and there are audiophiles who will swear that they can hear a difference.

[Harry]

@Todd A thousand dollar USB cable?! 

PD

Well yes, my USB cable did cost as much too. Unlike a lot of dissenters I hold the opinion that one can hear the quality of such a cable.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Well yes, my USB cable did cost as much too. Unlike a lot of dissenters I hold the opinion that one can hear the quality of such a cable.

I've heard the difference with interconnects and speaker cables, but was rather surprised that one could hear the difference with a USB cable.  Did you do a side-by-side (or really one after another--preferably "blind") test before purchasing it?

PD

[Spotted Horses]

Well yes, my USB cable did cost as much too. Unlike a lot of dissenters I hold the opinion that one can hear the quality of such a cable.

My USB hard disk is connected by a cable which looks like it costs $1. I can transfer a Terabyte of data into that hard disk and the transferred data is bit-for-bit identical. How can you improve on that?

[Harry]

I've heard the difference with interconnects and speaker cables, but was rather surprised that one could hear the difference with a USB cable.  Did you do a side-by-side (or really one after another--preferably "blind") test before purchasing it?

PD

I always sample different cables before buying anything PD

[Todd]

My USB hard disk is connected by a cable which looks like it costs $1. I can transfer a Terabyte of data into that hard disk and the transferred data is bit-for-bit identical. How can you improve on that?

Nothing improves on that.  Audiophile cables represent the absolute, pure triumph of charlatanism in marketing.  As per PT Barnum's accurate assessment, people fall for it every day.

[Spotted Horses]

I suggest we change the subject, before the thread gets locked.

[Todd]

I suggest we change the subject, before the thread gets locked.

I write facts that can be and have been objectively measured.  People who claim they can hear a difference in USB cables write about magic. 

[DavidW]

Oh, yes, and MQA is now dead. 

I just sold my old MQA dac, that explains why I didn't get much for it.

[DavidW]

I agree with Spotted Horses mostly because we always have a pattern of Harry buying something and then three or four other posters reacting.  It is just a matter of balance.  On other forums I've also seen it go the other way where subjectivists will brow beat the minority of objectivists present.  It is difficult to have a healthy conversation when both sides treat the other as fools and idiots.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I just sold my old MQA dac, that explains why I didn't get much for it.

I hadn't even heard of MQA and had to google it.  Tells you how far behind the times I am! 

PD

[Spotted Horses]

I hadn't even heard of MQA and had to google it.  Tells you how far behind the times I am! 

PD

Almost no one has heard of it (or heard it).

[Irons]

I hadn't even heard of MQA and had to google it.  Tells you how far behind the times I am! 

PD

Behind the times!! I (did) count myself as an audiophile. Following this thread for some time and have not a scooby-doo on the content. To paraphrase Mr Spock "Hi-FI, but not as we know it, Jim". 

[Todd]

It is difficult to have a healthy conversation when both sides treat the other as fools and idiots.

Subjectivists (aka, die-hard audiophiles) believe they can hear differences between digital cables.  They have for decades.  In the 90s, they would argue about the relative "sound quality" of different Toslink cables.  I assume some still do.  The assertions of such people are not grounded in physical reality.  By definition, that is foolish.  It's much better for audiophiles to admit they prefer certain forms of distortion and that's what they're on about, but they shan't.  Old men are proud of spending tons of money on Giffen goods and cannot be dissuaded from the wisdom of their choices. 

[Valentino]

The death of MQA is a beautiful thing. 

My oldest son wants to inherit my Hifi. There's hope!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Subjectivists (aka, die-hard audiophiles) believe they can hear differences between digital cables.  They have for decades.  In the 90s, they would argue about the relative "sound quality" of different Toslink cables.  I assume some still do.  The assertions of such people are not grounded in physical reality.  By definition, that is foolish.  It's much better for audiophiles to admit they prefer certain forms of distortion and that's what they're on about, but they shan't.  Old men are proud of spending tons of money on Giffen goods and cannot be dissuaded from the wisdom of their choices.

I think that a lot of the issue is:  what sound do you like?  I can say that I've heard the differences in what one can hear re instruments (and, oh, there's a...whatever!  I'd never noticed it before).  When I auditioned some components, some of the combos came across to me as "too syrupy"...trying to figure out how to describe it.  Maybe too warm, not crisp, too removed and laid back?

In any event, it comes down to factors like:  1) How good is your hearing 2) How good are your listening skills and also what and how you really listen to music.  Lots more, but I'm mostly focusing on classical music here.  That said, people listen to a variety of music and in different listening settings (One could be jogging or doing chores or trying to keep the neighbors or family members happy by not playing things too loud).  In the end, it's ones preferences that matter (In my opinion anyway).  And also ones budget, of course. 

PD

p.s.  And I was referring to analogue cables here in my comments; I haven't tried any comparisons of digital cables.

[Todd]

1) How good is your hearing

Old people have poor hearing.  This is measurable.  Old people cannot hear what they are writing about.  That is the single greatest reason why hi res is a joke. 

I'm not sure what listening skills are or if they can be objectively established.  OK, they can't.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Old people have poor hearing.  This is measurable.  Old people cannot hear what they are writing about.  That is the single greatest reason why hi res is a joke. 

I'm not sure what listening skills are or if they can be objectively established.  OK, they can't.

Yes, hearing declines as one gets older (in terms of frequencies), but hearing damage also depends on a lot of things and one can prevent at least some of that (from what I understand).  And you're also saying that hi res is just for "old people" which I wasn't saying and also don't know exactly what age and hearing ability you are talking about.

Listening:  it's a skill and also means about being able to focus on what your are listening to.  For some people, they don't listen to some music that intently (for whatever reasons and that's o.k.).  For me, normally, I listen differently when I am auditioning components (or cables or other things) than when I am listening to music as I just want to enjoy the music once I get home.   

PD