Have You Ever Experienced Radical Changes in Your Musical Taste?

[(poco) Sforzando]

Beethoven, always Beethoven!... Fuck Beethoven, man!

Well, I still like Beethoven. So there.

[brewski]

Beethoven, always Beethoven!... Fuck Beethoven, man!

When the big 250th birthday year rolled around in 2020, my eyes rolled, too, because I knew we were going to be in for a ton of Beethoven. I like many of his works a lot, and in college studied his late string quartets, which are definitely artistic pinnacles.

But it's not as if his works are never played. And there are so many other composers—literally thousands—who are worth hearing. To spend endless hours listening to nothing but Beethoven, and more Beethoven, and still more Beethoven...well, it makes me sad. That said, listeners should follow their bliss, and if Beethoven is your guy, run wild.

-Bruce

[steve ridgway]

The brevity is (so to say) the least of Bluebeard's Castle's virtues: an unalloyedly superb opera!

Ooh good; I will be getting to that in another 20 CDs .

[(poco) Sforzando]

When the big 250th birthday year rolled around in 2020, my eyes rolled, too, because I knew we were going to be in for a ton of Beethoven. I like many of his works a lot, and in college studied his late string quartets, which are definitely artistic pinnacles.

But it's not as if his works are never played. And there are so many other composers—literally thousands—who are worth hearing. To spend endless hours listening to nothing but Beethoven, and more Beethoven, and still more Beethoven...well, it makes me sad. That said, listeners should follow their bliss, and if Beethoven is your guy, run wild.

-Bruce

I certainly listen to a great many other composers besides Beethoven.

[Florestan]

Well, I still like Beethoven. So there.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I still like some of his chamber and solo piano music, the violin concerto and the 2nd and 4th piano concerto. It's Beethoven in heroic grandstanding mode that I can't tolerate.

When the big 250th birthday year rolled around in 2020, my eyes rolled, too, because I knew we were going to be in for a ton of Beethoven. I like many of his works a lot, and in college studied his late string quartets, which are definitely artistic pinnacles.

But it's not as if his works are never played. And there are so many other composers—literally thousands—who are worth hearing. To spend endless hours listening to nothing but Beethoven, and more Beethoven, and still more Beethoven...well, it makes me sad. That said, listeners should follow their bliss, and if Beethoven is your guy, run wild.

-Bruce

I have no problem with people listening exclusively to Beethoven (assuming such people exist at all): their taste, their time, their money. My problem is with placing him on a high pedestal and measuring all music before and after him with the yardstick of his values and achievements. There are, as you say, literally tons of composers, both within and without the Austro-German tradition, whose aesthetics and aims were different than Beethoven's and who, precisely because of that, get short shrift. For the sake of a single man whole genres ans styles are dismissed as irrelevant, frivolous or plainly bad music and the composers who cultivated them are deprecated and maligned. Now, one cannot blame Beethoven himself for the emergence and prevalence of this quasi-religious cult, but he's been turned, precisely by his worshippers, into a symbol for their complacency and narrow-mindedness. ,

[Opus131]

Well, from my part i still rank Beethoven as amnong the greatest composers in history taking second place only to Bach.

I can certainly understand getting bored of him after a while. I don't think it's possible for anything in this world to last forever, no matter how great it may be. I myself no longer listen to him all that much. However, from an "objective" point of view, nothing changed reguarding where i would rank his music and no composer i discovered since displaces him.

Just thinking about his late sonatas or string quartets is enough to ward off any would be usurper, and i say this despite not having listened to those sonatas and quartets for over a year now (i have of course listened to them hundreds of times and i could probably play them in my head note for note if i tried).

If there is one criticism of his works i would grant, is that there's something unbalanced about the "explosive" nature of his genius. The constant ebbing and swelling of his music which often culminates in something aking to the breaking of a dam is definitely something that can leave one feeling exhausted and off center. The problem with building an argument against Beethoven on this criticism alone though is that there are "unbalanced" elemements in the works of most other composers as well, so it would just feel arbitrary to single out Beethoven on this score then give a pass to say, a Wagner, or a Mahler, or a Schumann and so forth, all of which have equally ambivalent elements in their works. 

[Florestan]

Well, from my part i still rank Beethoven as the single greatest composer in history taking second place only to Bach.

If he is the single greatest composer then he can take second place to none, and if he is second only to Bach then he is not the single greatest composer, that would be Bach. Please, make up your mind. 

[Maestro267]

I'm not sure if this counts but 5 years ago you wouldn't have seen me anywhere near chamber music, or basically anything that doesn't involve the Romantic large orchestra. But in the last 2 years I've developed a major appreciation for chamber music and solo piano music in particular. Which is great because it means I've had the pleasure of experiencing new-to-me masterpieces by composers I already enjoy, alongside developing an appreciation for other composers. For instance, Franz Schubert has been a major discovery in recent years. I'm also gradually growing to appreciate Mozart and Haydn, having just today purchased some of the former's Piano Concertos. When again, a few years ago I wouldn't have touched that music with a barge pole. I think I'm appreciating simpler works with melody and simple easy-to-follow forms as I get older.

[Florestan]

I'm not sure if this counts but 5 years ago you wouldn't have seen me anywhere near chamber music, or basically anything that doesn't involve the Romantic large orchestra. But in the last 2 years I've developed a major appreciation for chamber music and solo piano music in particular. Which is great because it means I've had the pleasure of experiencing new-to-me masterpieces by composers I already enjoy, alongside developing an appreciation for other composers. For instance, Franz Schubert has been a major discovery in recent years. I'm also gradually growing to appreciate Mozart and Haydn, having just today purchased some of the former's Piano Concertos. When again, a few years ago I wouldn't have touched that music with a barge pole. I think I'm appreciating simpler works with melody and simple easy-to-follow forms as I get older.

Excellent post and a sentiment I'm experiencing myself.

[Jo498]

My introduction to classical music was this tape my aunt owned (I think she also had similar versions of Handel, Haydn, and Mozart):

This looks familiar, I must have had this or a similar collection as a beginner as well. In any case, one of them had Smetana's Bartered Bride ouverture labeled as Beethoven's Leonore 1, I think, and it took me quite a while to find out that this was nonsense!

[Opus131]

Perfection can easily become a sign of decline. Everything they did, all the way up to Red, was on the way to their prime. Long descent after that, polishing and honing, why not.

I'm going to have to object to this.

Discipline was not a polishing and honing of something old and tired. It was a completely fresh and original effort, thanks in part to the fact Fripp brought in some new blood like Tony Levin and Adrain Belew who at the time were in "their" prime, but also thanks to the fact it was the 70s progressive rock aesthetic that was in itself old and tired and past it's "prime" by that point. 

I don't think "decline" is necessarely linear. Sometimes this seems to be the case with rock artists, not so much with classical composers who often get better with age, but in either case, i think it is more correct to say that decline is cyclical. Artistic trends and styles seem to come and go, see the light of day then wane and die out. Any attempt to either keep them alive or resurrect them doesn't seem to ever be that successful, regardless of the genre.

Now it's usually the case for rock artists to sort of become entrapped into a particular stylistic life cycle, and when the style dies out they also seem to die along with it, but this doesn't ALWAYS have to be the case and sometimes some of them succeed in reinventing themselves, which i think is what King Crimson did with Discipline.

[Opus131]

If he is the single greatest composer then he can take second place to none, and if he is second only to Bach then he is not the single greatest composer, that would be Bach. Please, make up your mind. 

Ok, bad wording on my part, haha.

But yeah, Bach ranks #1 for me and Beethoven ranks #2.

[foxandpeng]

Most definitely. As a young man I was greatly drawn to the NWOBHM (New Wave Of British Heavy Metal), with bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and then Scorpions, Motorhead, and others. I still like them very much, but when I became a parent for the first time at 21, I bought some Vivaldi, Schubert, Mozart, Handel, Locatelli, Bach, Haydn(s), and others to help my colicky new born son get to sleep. Apparently, that's what one does with colicky new born children. I spent hours in the middle of the night listening to them and realising a whole world of primarily Baroque and Classical composers that I had never heard of and really enjoyed - lots of Italian elli's! If it had a powdered wig, I listened to it.

I have to confess that I almost never listen to those any more. I made a swift trip through the Romantics into the 20th and 21st centuries, and my art music/classical music sits almost exclusively with that period now. Bruckner kind of stuck, and Beethoven symphonies remain pretty dear to my heart despite infrequent revisits, but the modern era has had my heart in the last 20+ years.

I have never liked classical music where pianos predominate, as they have always been plinky-plonky Satans to me. Godowsky etudes sealed that opinion for me during my 'what blind purchase shall I make next?' period. He put me off classical music for months. I appreciate my shortcomings here, but I can't seem to shake that dislike, even in my favourite composers - I do wonder whether my upbringing around pianos that are only ever used in pop and rock songs for obvious melody lasting three catchy minutes has spoiled me for more complex piano pieces that require greater attention. I really have tried, with little success. Choral music the same. Apart from Gregorian/Early music that is pre-Catholic (no offence intended). The quiet and reflective Night Watches and small hours tend to attract me there.

As far as non-classical music is concerned, I am still a primary metalhead, with increasingly dissonant and harsh music being my go-to... throat-stripping and wall-of-sound music often winning the day. Melodic death and black metal - Northern European, Cascadian and heritage forms being the favourite genres of choice. I doubt that will ever change. I think there is an underlying connection between the complexity of classical and metal music that I find really interesting.

I am, however, a huge Paul Simon, Denver, Passenger, Frank Turner, et al., folk rock kind of ball park lover. Simon is - or rather was, a genius. Less so in recent years as his gift has waned with age.

Hm. Interesting thread. Thank you.

[foxandpeng]

One time I got caught out.  A piece I wanted to hear was programmed in the first part of a concert, with Mozart's Piano Concerto No.24 after the interval.  No problem, I can leave at that point.  Except just before it starts, I'm sitting smack in the middle of a packed front stalls section, when it's announced over the PA that the advertised running order is wrong, and they're going to start with the Mozart.  I'm looking around, thinking I'd have to climb over about 20 people to get out, so it looks like I'm stuck there.  Maybe it won't be so bad.  Just this once surely I can put up with it.

Nope.  I lasted all of about 15 seconds, and then I was out of my seat like a rocketing pheasant in front of the guns.  Like Alex in A Clockwork Orange, who throws himself out of a 2nd-floor window to escape the sound of the Choral Symphony from the room below.  Just one reason why nowadays I always get an aisle seat - you never know when they'll spring some Mozart on you - like in an encore for example - and I need my escape route clear.

I had the same experience with Handel's Messiah, and later with free tickets to Carmen. Painful experience. For me, at least. Still can't stomach much opera. I am clearly some sort of shallow Philistine.

[Florestan]

Ok, bad wording on my part, haha.

But yeah, Bach ranks #1 for me and Beethoven ranks #2.

Which is your favorite non-Austro-German composer?

[Florestan]

The most spectacular casualty was Mozart, who at the time occupied a significant slice of my LPs, but from that moment to this I have not been able to stand his music.  This is not a musical judgement - I don't have any problem with either of the Haydns, for example - I simply can't tolerate the sound it makes. 

This is very strange. Haydn's sound is not radically different from Mozart's and a blind test may yield surprising results. 

Anyway, nice post and great stories. Thanks for sharing.

[Florestan]

Still can't stomach much opera. I am clearly some sort of shallow Philistine.

No, just an insensitive barbarian.     

[Mookalafalas]

I think I can say I'm ALWAYS experiencing radical change in my musical taste. I'm 57. I've always been crazy about music, but only started listening to classical a few years ago. Sometimes I'm excited about solo piano, and then renaissance madrigals, and then symphonic music, and then I listen to nothing but trios or small chamber music or baroque opera, etc.. It's weird.

[DavidW]

listeners should follow their bliss,

Yes of course!



 

[foxandpeng]

No, just an insensitive barbarian.     

*swings club*