Rec Req - (Orchestral) Best of Barbirolli

[lordlance]

I always thought of Barbirolli as a bit of a snooze fest conductor because of his lethargic tempi but his BBC Legends Bruckner 3 was a pleasant surprise (side q: The Schalk edition doesn't seem to have changed much. Am I wrong?) and his first movement of Brahms 3 was a much needed jolt to the system too. The last few Brahms 3 I have heard have been too... Genial shall we say... That made me think of it as very pleasant music lacking power.

Building on top of these two: which other (purely orchestral/non-vocal) performances do you recommend of Barbirolli. I know he rerecorded so specific recordings should be mentioned when repetitions exist. 

[lordlance]

Finished rest of the Third. I can't say I was wrong about the genial nature of the piece. The finale tempi did feel slightly dragging but overall it's not a bad performance. 

[Daverz]

Some Barbirolli favorites:

Bax: Tintagel
Elgar: Symphonies
       Enigma Variations (Philharmonia)
"English String Music"
Grieg: Peer Gynt suite
Schoenberg: Pelleas und Melisande
Sibelius: Symphony 2 with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Tchaikovsky: Serenade for Strings
VW: Symphony 2 (two recordings in stereo)
    Symphony 5 (Philharmonia)

[Roy Bland]

RVW Eight

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Mahler 6 and 9: both somewhat unconventional (especially 6), but with a real sense of exploration about them, typical of the "Mahler revival" spirit of the 60s. Also a great Rückert-Lieder with Janet Baker

Vaughan Williams 5, Bax Tintagel: noted above, a very special recording

Elgar: the famous Cello Cto. recording with DuPre; also Falstaff

An oddball choice: Schoenberg Pelleas and Melisande: he didn't do a lot of modern stuff, but this one is interesting

[Karl Henning]

Mahler 6 and 9: both somewhat unconventional (especially 6), but with a real sense of exploration about them, typical of the "Mahler revival" spirit of the 60s. Also a great Rückert-Lieder with Janet Baker

Vaughan Williams 5, Bax Tintagel: noted above, a very special recording

Elgar: the famous Cello Cto. recording with DuPre; also Falstaff

An oddball choice: Schoenberg Pelleas and Melisande: he didn't do a lot of modern stuff, but this one is interesting

Yes, the Schoenberg is a very nice outlier.

[Hitch]

Re. the Elgar Cello Concerto recording: it comes with what is commonly held as the last word on his Sea Pictures, sung by Janet Baker to great effect.

[Holden]

I'd add the Mahler 5 with the New Philharmonic to the list of great Barbirolli recordings

[Daverz]

Re. the Elgar Cello Concerto recording: it comes with what is commonly held as the last word on his Sea Pictures, sung by Janet Baker to great effect.

I didn't include any recordings as accompanist on my list.  Otherwise, all the Baker collaborations belong (Berlioz, Ravel, Mahler, Elgar), as well as the Madame Butterfly with Scotto.

[Spotted Horses]

I always thought of Barbirolli as a bit of a snooze fest conductor because of his lethargic tempi but his BBC Legends Bruckner 3 was a pleasant surprise

I couldn't disagree more with the characterization of Barbirolli's tempos as "lethargic." For me the defining characteristic of Barbirolli's style is the way his humanity comes through. I realize that is impossibly vague and subjective, but I would only say the same thing about only one other conductor, Pierre Monteux.

When Barbirolli's tempos are spacious, I never find them lethargic, because the expanded time is filled with expressive detail. My favorite Barbirolli is in the English String Music collection, the Mahler 5, 6 and 9, the Vaughan Williams 2 and 5, the Sibelius, particularly the release with smaller works including the Karelia Suite, The Brahms with the WPO, particularly the Academic Festival Overture. I recently listened to the Beethoven 8 from the late 50's (Halle) and it wasn't a barn burner, by any measure, but lots of little details in the music emerged, that I hadn't noticed before. I'll have to look up that Schoenberg, Pelleas und Melisande, which I have not heard.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

When Barbirolli's tempos are spacious, I never find them lethargic, because the expanded time is filled with expressive detail.

This also sounds like a description of Carlo Maria Giulini. While there's some Barb that doesn't grab me (the Elgar symphonies and Mahler 5 - which is surprising since I like the other stuff he did by these composers), he does bring a lot of warmth and detail, in a way that seems to have fallen out of fashion.

[lordlance]

Unfortunately, the use of the adjective 'humane' and 'warmth' in itself are red flags for me because they seem to be used a lot for Walter and it's inexplicable to me why he is considered one of the all-time greats when they lack fire. Why Walter's mellow conducting* which I find lacking in character and propulsion gets called 'warm' is a real mystery to me. A pass of sorts. Giulini is also someone I've found quite boring so our tastes in music might be quite different here. Still there's more Barbirolli to explore.

*Incidentally more applicable for his pre-stereo/pre-mono years. He was far more excitable when he was younger.

[Spotted Horses]

Unfortunately, the use of the adjective 'humane' and 'warmth' in itself are red flags for me because they seem to be used a lot for Walter and it's inexplicable to me why he is considered one of the all-time greats when they lack fire. Why Walter's mellow conducting* which I find lacking in character and propulsion gets called 'warm' is a real mystery to me. A pass of sorts. Giulini is also someone I've found quite boring so our tastes in music might be quite different here. Still there's more Barbirolli to explore.

*Incidentally more applicable for his pre-stereo/pre-mono years. He was far more excitable when he was younger.

You'll have to explain what the pre-mono years are.

For me humane indicates a joy in music making.

[lordlance]

You'll have to explain what the pre-mono years are.

For me humane indicates a joy in music making.

Lol I meant mono years. 

I am not sure how energized, barn-storming is exclusive of being joyous. The description for Giulini and Walter truly are just baffling.

[Spotted Horses]

Lol I meant mono years.

I am not sure how energized, barn-storming is exclusive of being joyous. The description for Giulini and Walter truly are just baffling.

I wouldn't say energized barn-storming is exclusive of being joyous. But there can also be a joy in savoring things, allowing time to take them in. I find that in some cases I hear modern recordings and am struck that their main feature is being technically immaculate. Probably people said similar things about Szell.

In any case, at this point I would say that our tastes differ, and leave it at that.

[lordlance]

I wouldn't say energized barn-storming is exclusive of being joyous. But there can also be a joy in savoring things, allowing time to take them in. I find that in some cases I hear modern recordings and am struck that their main feature is being technically immaculate. Probably people said similar things about Szell.

In any case, at this point I would say that our tastes differ, and leave it at that.

I agree.

However you do like Szell too? Dave is a Hardcore Szell fan but I find him rather faceless if clean and precise.