Favourite symphonic cycles: symphonists whose symphonies you find all excellent

Started by Christo, March 05, 2025, 02:34:19 PM

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Christo

To start with my take, in numerical order:
1. Ludvig Irgens Jensen
Arthur Benjamin
Alf Hurum
Zoltán Kodály
Czesław Marek
2. Eugene Goossens
Samuel Barber
Ernest John Moeran
Arthur Bliss
Eivind Groven
Henri Dutilleux
William Walton
Volkmar Andreae
Willem van Otterloo
3. Levi Madetoja
Douglas Lilburn
Igor Stravinsky
Pēteris Vasks
Alan Rawsthorne
Willem Pijper
Henryk Górecki
4. Lennox Berkeley
Stanley Bate
Franz Schmidt
Michael Tippett
Karol Szymanowski
Witold Lutosławski
Albert Roussel
Kaljo Raid
Arnold Cooke
Léon Orthel
Erkki Melartin
Gösta Nystroem
Lepo Sumera
5. Arthur Honegger
Herman Koppel
Ruth Gipps
Ahmet Adnan Saygun
William Alwyn
Hendrik Andriessen
William Grant Still
Joonas Kokkonen
Camille Saint-Saëns
Georges Enescu
6. Joly Braga Santos
Carl Nielsen
7. Camargo Guarnieri
Richard Arnell
Matthijs Vermeulen
Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky
Johan Willem Wilms
8, alas. Einar Englund
Charles Tournemire
9. Ralph Vaughan Willams
Malcolm Arnold
Ludwig van Beethoven
Antonín Dvořák
Anton Bruckner
Bohuslav Martinů (three late three-movement 'fantasies' included)
10. Gustav Mahler
Eduard Tubin
11. John Kinsella
Edmund Rubbra
13. Vagn Holmboe 
15. Dmitri Shostakovich
32. Havergal Brian
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

DavidW

I find Mahler, Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven, Haydn, Martinu, Nielsen, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, and Pettersson to be consistent. Not standards of equal greatness, just consistently good. As in, I could pop in any symphony when I'm in the mood for that composer and not be disappointed. I also mean Elgar, but he only wrote two symphonies!

I don't know if consistency is the greatest virtue. Arnold's first six symphonies are good and consistent, but the last three being staggeringly great means well more than matching the consistency of the first six.

dhibbard


Der lächelnde Schatten

A difficult question, because no composer who wrote many symphonies is completely without fault or some misstep, but for me I'd say Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Sibelius and Vaughan Williams have the most consistently excellent symphonic cycles.
"Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise." ― Victor Hugo

hopefullytrusting

Wojtek Blecharz (3 symphonies that I have heard so far - all perfect), but I also think that it is unlikely that your music will be of low quality if you can get professionals to perform it without having to pay them.

:)

Brian

I see you are omitting Stravinsky's "in E flat" and "of Wind Instruments"  ;)

Florestan

"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

Lisztianwagner

I would say Mahler, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, Rachmaninov, Sibelius, Brahms, Nielsen and Elgar; with a bonus for Schönberg, if his Chamber Symphonies can be considered. ;)
"You cannot expect the Form before the Idea, for they will come into being together." - Arnold Schönberg

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Christo on March 05, 2025, 02:34:19 PMTo start with my take, in numerical order:
1. Ludvig Irgens Jensen
Arthur Benjamin
Alf Hurum
Zoltán Kodály
Czesław Marek
2. Eugene Goossens
Samuel Barber
Ernest John Moeran
Arthur Bliss
Eivind Groven
Henri Dutilleux
William Walton
Volkmar Andreae
Willem van Otterloo
3. Levi Madetoja
Douglas Lilburn
Igor Stravinsky
Pēteris Vasks
Alan Rawsthorne
Willem Pijper
Henryk Górecki
4. Lennox Berkeley
Stanley Bate
Franz Schmidt
Michael Tippett
Karol Szymanowski
Witold Lutosławski
Albert Roussel
Kaljo Raid
Arnold Cooke
Léon Orthel
Erkki Melartin
Gösta Nystroem
Lepo Sumera
5. Arthur Honegger
Herman Koppel
Ruth Gipps
Ahmet Adnan Saygun
William Alwyn
Hendrik Andriessen
William Grant Still
Joonas Kokkonen
Camille Saint-Saëns
Georges Enescu
6. Joly Braga Santos
Carl Nielsen
7. Camargo Guarnieri
Richard Arnell
Matthijs Vermeulen
Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky
Johan Willem Wilms
8, alas. Einar Englund
Charles Tournemire
9. Ralph Vaughan Willams
Malcolm Arnold
Ludwig van Beethoven
Antonín Dvořák
Anton Bruckner
Bohuslav Martinů (three late three-movement 'fantasies' included)
10. Gustav Mahler
Eduard Tubin
11. John Kinsella
Edmund Rubbra
13. Vagn Holmboe 
15. Dmitri Shostakovich
32. Havergal Brian

Is there anyone not on your list?
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

foxandpeng

Quote from: Der lächelnde Schatten on March 09, 2025, 06:49:27 PMA difficult question, because no composer who wrote many symphonies is completely without fault or some misstep, but for me I'd say Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Sibelius and Vaughan Williams have the most consistently excellent symphonic cycles.

This is a helpful way of putting this, for me. On this basis I would have to say...

RVW, Vasks, Tabakov, Holmboe, Tubin, Sibelius, Petterson, and possibly Sawyers.

Not all obvious, maybe, but for me at least, all home runs.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

foxandpeng

Quote from: foxandpeng on March 12, 2025, 03:00:23 PMThis is a helpful way of putting this, for me. On this basis I would have to say...

RVW, Vasks, Tabakov, Holmboe, Tubin, Sibelius, Petterson, and possibly Sawyers.

Not all obvious, maybe, but for me at least, all home runs.

Barber, because of the small number - but that opens the door to other composers of small numbers.

Nørgård?

Beethoven, obviously.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Karl Henning on March 12, 2025, 02:32:48 PMBrian?...

Brian is on the list! (not our Brian, but that other one.)

But I do see no mention of Alberic Magnard (4), Serge Prokofiev (7), Wolfgang Mozart (41? 47?) or Josef Haydn (104). One has to wonder, are these omissions intentional? Seems to me these composers have as much right of place as some of the worthies mentioned. And what, pray, about Alan Hovhaness (who wrote a lot) and Leif Segerstam (too many to count)?
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Florestan

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 12, 2025, 05:51:02 PMI do see no mention of Alberic Magnard (4), Serge Prokofiev (7), Wolfgang Mozart (41? 47?) or Josef Haydn (104).

Ahem!...

Reply #6.
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

DavidW

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 12, 2025, 05:51:02 PMBut I do see no mention of Alberic Magnard (4), Serge Prokofiev (7), Wolfgang Mozart (41? 47?) or Josef Haydn (104). One has to wonder, are these omissions intentional? Seems to me these composers have as much right of place as some of the worthies mentioned. And what, pray, about Alan Hovhaness (who wrote a lot) and Leif Segerstam (too many to count)?

I don't think Mozart belongs on the list. When he was young, he wrote a multitude of mildly interesting symphonies, and then his mature output consists of a handful of absolute masterpieces. That is not terribly consistent.

You also mentioned Prokofiev, and while this forum demonstrates enthusiasm for his entire symphonic output, I personally think that the 1st, 5th, and 6th stand in a higher tier than the rest of his symphonies.

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Florestan on March 12, 2025, 11:55:22 PMAhem!...

Reply #6.


But no mention on the original list, which also credited Tchaikovsky with 7. So ahem to your ahem . . .
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Brian

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 13, 2025, 06:41:42 AMBut no mention on the original list, which also credited Tchaikovsky with 7. So ahem to your ahem . . .
A few months ago I listened to Tchaikovsky's "Seventh" as completed by some Soviet and recorded by Ormandy. Thoroughly hated it.

But perhaps they mean Manfred?

Florestan

Quote from: Karl Henning on March 13, 2025, 06:04:20 AMLarry meant absent from a certain seemingly exhaustive list.

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 13, 2025, 06:41:42 AMBut no mention on the original list, which also credited Tchaikovsky with 7. So ahem to your ahem . . .

Oh, my bad then.

And I have a question: how does one symphony only qualify as a symphonic cycle?
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham