The Snowshoed Sibelius

[Mirror Image]

My favourite Sibelius symphony keeps changing!!   

Currently, it's now the 6th (for the 1st time).

The 6th is my current favorite too! This symphony is sometimes referred to as Sibelius' "pastoral symphony." I love the understated tone of this work. It took me multiple listening to fully appreciate it's alluring nature.

[Karl Henning]

I dunno . . . I almost think the Third more pastoral than the Sixth . . . .

[vandermolen]

The 6th is possibly my favourite too. Vaughan Williams greatly admired it.

[Mirror Image]

I dunno . . . I almost think the Third more pastoral than the Sixth . . . .

The 3rd is such a fascinating symphony! Highly underrated too I think. Honestly, I love all of Sibelius' symphonies and wouldn't be without any of them.

[Mirror Image]

The 6th is possibly my favourite too. Vaughan Williams greatly admired it.

It's easy to hear a little Sibelius in Vaughan Williams. It's hard to explain but there's just something about the harmonic language of RVW that sometimes reminds me of Sibelius. Maybe, GMG composer-in-residence, Dr. Henning can explain this?

[CriticalI]

Okay, I'll say it: I don't think intensity has much of anything to do with Mozart's music, even the late works.

Wow, a forumite who's never heard the requiem!

[kishnevi]

Wow, a forumite who's never heard the requiem!

I don't find WAM's Requiem to be emotionally intense.  Spiritually uplifting and solemn, perhaps, but not intense.  For comparison,  think of Cherubini's Requiem, a generation or so later. 

However, I think emotional intensity is a good way to describe several of the later symphonies and a number of the piano concertos--especially Symphony no. 40.   In the operas,  I think Clemenza di Tito and Zauberflote both achieve emotional intense moments (or at least, are able to, in the hands of the right performers), and Don Giovanni does not.  There's a sense of vaudeville or Grade B movies in Don Giovanni; the only emotionally intense moments are at the very beginning, with the murder of the Commandante and the scena with Donna Anna which immediately follows, and in Donna Elvira's 'big number".   All the other scenes that might have an emotional impact are undercut by the comedy.  Even the Don being dragged into Hell is undercut by Leporello's comic fright.

[CriticalI]

I don't find WAM's Requiem to be emotionally intense.  Spiritually uplifting and solemn, perhaps, but not intense.  For comparison,  think of Cherubini's Requiem, a generation or so later.

Sorry, are you saying Cherubini is more intense than Mozart? Wow. I nonetheless find the Mozart intense - it's not Prokofiev's 20th Anniversary cantata (!), but still a high point of darkness and drama for me (obviously it also has uplifting parts).

[DavidRoss]

From merriam-webster.com:

Definition of INTENSE

1a : existing in an extreme degree <the excitement was intense> <intense pain>
  b : having or showing a characteristic in extreme degree <intense colors>

2:    marked by or expressive of great zeal, energy, determination, or concentration <intense effort>

3a : exhibiting strong feeling or earnestness of purpose <an intense student>
  b : deeply felt

[kishnevi]

Sorry, are you saying Cherubini is more intense than Mozart? Wow. I nonetheless find the Mozart intense - it's not Prokofiev's 20th Anniversary cantata (!), but still a high point of darkness and drama for me (obviously it also has uplifting parts).

Cherubini's Requiem is less restrained in its emotional expression than Mozart's, and less optimistic in tone.

If you don't need to stick to Requiems, think of the contrast between Mozart's Requiem and Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.

To keep this on thread topic, I'll suggest a parallel comparison, although it doesn't apply across the board to the music of both men--Sibelius's music can be more intense and darker than Bruckner's.

[Scarpia]

BTW, if you are interested there was some continuation of this discussion on the Mozart thread.

[kishnevi]

BTW, if you are interested there was some continuation of this discussion on the Mozart thread.

What?  Discussing Mozart on the Mozart thread!!!!  Shocking!  What is the world coming to.

(Thanks for the pointer.  I normally don't read the Mozart thread....)

[Mirror Image]

How about we all get back to Sibelius since this is his thread and talk about Mozart on the Mozart thread? Sound good?

Anyway, back to Sibelius...

I was surprised to read that Sarge does not own Berglund's Helsinki set. My question to Sarge: is there any particular reason you've been avoiding these performances?

[Brian]

My favourite composer, Kurt Atterberg, also lacks 'intensity', but is such a romp he can be well forgiven.

Not even in the Fifth? I do see what you mean, though. Mozart achieves that in a few piano concerto movements.

Recent recordings by Minkowski and Rene Jacobs have brought a similar energy to performance of Mozart's late symphonies, but I do not think they exceed what Harnoncourt accomplished in those Concertgebouw recordings from the 80's.

My preference, over Jacobs even, is Mackerras/Scottish CO on Linn.

Back on subject:
For some reason, this month my thoughts have been more and more with Sibelius' First. Like Ray, I find myself preoccupied with a symphony that didn't demand this much attention from me at any time in the past!

[Lilas Pastia]

Yes!  I think of the Sixth as having a kammermusiklich lightness (though that is another reason why I am curious to revisit HvK here, more on which presently).  And as to the enigmatical conclusions of the movements . . . from early on, I think I must have intuitively taken the symphony as trending towards the symphony-in-one-movement, sinfonia quasi una fantasia conception of the Seventh.  I had already fallen for the piece, and listened to it, transfixed, a dozen times, before I concerned myself with Where does the second movement begin? e.g.

Which brings me to [re-]acknowledgement that it was in the HvK recording (the same disc with the Fourth which left me so entirely unconvinced of that great work) that the Sixth initially enchanted me.  From a number of angles (revisitation of that account of the Fourth, e.g.) I've grown curious to listen afresh to the Herbster here.  Cheap though it is, I've not reeled in the Trio . . . insufficiently interested in a set filled out by Okko Kamu (not to speak him at all ill). I liked better the idea of the Originals two-fer, including Tapiola, I discovered, and so at last I've pulled the trigger on that 'un.

Interesting. Past symphonies 1-2, opinions differ so very wildly, about the real nature of Sibelius. Some hear it in the 4th, others in the 7th, yet some others hear it in the 5th, his most public symphony. Few hear it in the 3rd or the 6th. The latter is definitely the Cinderella among the symphonies. Will the real princess step forward and fit the crystal shoe?

Transcribed into modern musical linguo, that would suggest a very special set of musical attributes:  cool timbres, expansive tempo allied to taut phrasing, translucent sound.

IMHO no version has caught the true nature of the 6th as Karajan has. Esp. In the DG recording. Davis BSO and Rozhdestvensky are also quite good. But do give Karakan a try. It's among his half dozen best-ever recordings.

[Mirror Image]

IMHO no version has caught the true nature of the 6th as Karajan has. Esp. In the DG recording. Davis BSO and Rozhdestvensky are also quite good. But do give Karakan a try. It's among his half dozen best-ever recordings.

I agree Karajan's 6th on DG is outstanding, but it doesn't completely clear my mind of Vanska's performance which I rate equally.

[Karl Henning]

Cross-post from the Grumble:

Enjoying the inherent oxymoron in the tempo designation (used more than once by Sibelius) of Allegro molto moderato . . . .

[snyprrr]

Just heard Finlandia (Saraste) on the car radio. I have not really listened to it (like 'Freebird', y'know?), but here it just came across as grantitic and melodic Sibelius the way I like it. I shouldn't shy away from it any more,... but, that said, Saraste was good and all, but I'd like some Top Recommendations. I've always been partial to Gibson, but I'm sure the sound could be improved upon.

There was one moment, early on, when it seemed like a certain minor-ish melody popped into relief for a moment,... that classic Sibelius chord that I'm supposing is the one that sends the shivers up everyone's leg like it does for me.

[North Star]

Actually I don't remember Finlandia all that well. Oh well, in seven weeks I've heard it enough times for another year.

[Mirror Image]

Personally, I like Finlandia. I know a Finnish person must get tired of hearing it, but to these American ears it still sounds fresh and exciting. I really like Segerstam's performance of this work on Ondine. I do recall enjoying Ashkenazy's as well. Barbirolli and Berglund (Helsinki) also had good performances of this popular classic. I'm one of those listeners who doesn't wear out well-known works and sometimes even purposely avoids them. A great example would be Debussy's Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un faune. I knew this was a popular work, but I was careful not to overplay it. To be honest, I wasn't a big fan of the work until I recently heard Abbado's performance of it with the Berliners on DG. I have Abbado to thank for making this work finally click for me.