The Snowshoed Sibelius

[North Star]

Maybe the fact that artificial often seems equal to "devoid of true feeling".

We should remember that emotions are not innate properties of works of art, but that they are felt by someone experiencing a work of art, and thus music can't really be said to have 'true feelings'. Music works or it doesn't, triggers an emotional response or doesn't (based on learned, culture-dependent responses) and there are various reasons for that, in the music, performance, acoustics, and the psychological condition of the listener.
That said, you may feel that the music doesn't work, of course. I would take a break from it and listen to something else - maybe some of the music mentioned in those Cambridge Companion to Sibelius quotations. 

[Karl Henning]

Maybe the fact that artificial often seems equal to "devoid of true feeling".

Don't swallow the Romanticist Kool-Aid! 

[Karl Henning]

And I always think of Ravel's remark, to the effect of, Don't these people realize that I may be artificial by nature?

And on a personal note, I've had it up to here with people here in town who speak of the abstraction of any of my music as some sort of liability.

[Mirror Image]

Don't swallow the Romanticist Kool-Aid! 

[Florestan]

We should remember that emotions are not innate properties of works of art, but that they are felt by someone experiencing a work of art, and thus music can't really be said to have 'true feelings'. Music works or it doesn't, triggers an emotional response or doesn't (based on learned, culture-dependent responses) and there are various reasons for that, in the music, performance, acoustics, and the psychological condition of the listener.

We´ve had this discussion before.

Emotions are not innate properties of works of art, they are felt by someone experiencing a work of art --- very true, but the artist creating a work of art uses tools and elements which are specifically designed, or intended, to induce emotions, passions and feelings (I mean, those artists who are taking themselves seriously; those who are just into cold intellectual games or hot emotional histrionics for the sake of them should not even be counted in as artists). Now, there are basically two types of emotions, passions and feelings that a work of art can induce: (1) those of the one who listens, reads or watches or (2) those of the artist creating the work of art. Prior to the advent of Romanticism, the former was the norm: Romanticism turned the whole thing upside down and made a norm of the latter. Whether one likes one or the other is a matter of personal taste. Best of all is to enjoy both --- just as I do. 

[North Star]

We´ve had this discussion before.

Lets take it outside.

[Florestan]

Lets take it outside.

Agreed. See you there.

[Ken B]

No, I'm wrong (per usual)

Ordered yet another Turangalila have we?

[Mirror Image]

Let's get back to Sibelius, shall we?

Okay, so I've posted about Symphony No. 3 & 4, The Origin of Fire, The Oceanides, and Lemminkainen Suite. Not many of fellow Sibelians commented on these works. I would love to hear from those who love these particular works like I do and also what your favorite recorded performance is of these works. Thanks!

Symphony No. 3 in C major, Op. 52 - performance of choice: Segerstam/Helsinki (Ondine)
Symphony No. 4 in A minor, Op. 63 - performance of choice: Vanska/Lahti (BIS)
The Oceanides, Op. 73 - performance of choice: Segerstam/Helsinki (Ondine)
The Origin of Fire, Op. 32 (Original Version) - performance of choice: Vanska/Lahti (BIS)
Lemminkainen Suite, Op. 22 - performance of choice: Segerstam/Helsinki (Ondine)

Of course, I have many more favorite performances but these are the ones that really stand out to me and have impressed me the most.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Not many of fellow Sibelians commented on these works. I would love to hear from those who love these particular works like I do and also what your favorite recorded performance is of these works.

I love almost every single work of Jean, including those you mentioned. Even those few works that I am not worshipping (symphonies 5 and 7, the bard) are still far from dislike. And I change my mind about music works often enough, some day those three may be my top3, who knows. And like I said, I am not good with recordings. But interestingly with Sibelius, I usually find the ones by finnish conductors the best sounding. Maybe it's just a spark of nationalism in me...  0:)

[Mirror Image]

I love almost every single work of Jean, including those you mentioned. Even those few works that I am not worshipping (symphonies 5 and 7, the bard) are still far from dislike. And I change my mind about music works often enough, some day those three may be my top3, who knows. And like I said, I am not good with recordings. But interestingly with Sibelius, I usually find the ones by finnish conductors the best sounding. Maybe it's just a spark of nationalism in me...  0:)

I think, in time, you'll come around to Symphonies 5 & 7. I would be curious to know what your Sibelius collection looks like. I have many individual recordings, but I also have many cycles of the symphonies or so it seems I do now. Here are the cycles I own:

Vanska/Lahti SO
Segerstam/Helsinki
Berglund/Helsinki
Berglund/Bournemouth
C. Davis/BSO
C. Davis/LSO
C. Davis/LSO Live
Ashkenazy/Philharmonia
Maazel/Pittsburgh
Maazel/VPO
Bernstein/NY Phil.
Oramo/CBSO
Storgards/BBC Phil.
Blomstedt/SFSO
Saraste/Finnish RSO
Jarvi/Gothenburg SO
Barbirolli/Halle
Gibson/Royal Scottish Orch.
Rattle/CBSO
Inkinen/NZ SO
Sakari/Iceland SO
Sanderling/Berlin SO
Rozhdestvensky/Moscow RSO

I also own several partial cycles: Vanska/Minnesota, HvK/Berliners (DG), Bernstein/VPO (DG), Kamu (DG), Berglund/LPO.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Here's a shocker: I mostly use Spotify. Good conductors are for ex. Osmo Vänskä, Segerstam, Neeme Järvi... and of course there is gorgeous recording of complete tone poems of Sibelius by Vassily Sinaisky, conducting the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra.

[Mirror Image]

Here's a shocker: I mostly use Spotify. Good conductors are for ex. Osmo Vänskä, Segerstam, Neeme Järvi... and of course there is gorgeous recording of complete tone poems of Sibelius by Vassily Sinaisky, conducting the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra.

Well, it's not too surprising as many people nowadays prefer to have their music streamed. I've always preferred owning the hard copies of recordings as I like having something to show for my purchase. Of course, I have CDCDCD, which only further complicated matters.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Well, it's not too surprising as many people nowadays prefer to have their music streamed. I've always preferred owning the hard copies of recordings as I like having something to show for my purchase. Of course, I have CDCDCD, which only further complicated matters.

Don't worry, there was a time when I borrowed like thirty recordings from library at once, but nowadays Spotify seems so much better in that you don't have to carry around so much fragile material.

[Brian]

Call off the search! I've found The One: the concerto of (at-least-being-pretty-close-to) my personal dreams.



Shoulda known it would be Oistrakh in the end. It almost always is Oistrakh or Kogan.

[Mirror Image]

Call off the search! I've found The One: the concerto of (at-least-being-pretty-close-to) my personal dreams.



Shoulda known it would be Oistrakh in the end. It almost always is Oistrakh or Kogan.

What's so great about it, Brian?

[Brian]

What's so great about it, Brian?

Well I think a few pages ago I must have explained my personal preferences for this concerto: quick(ish) outer movements, a white-hot violin soloist, romantic playing (intelligent use of vibrato, occasional portamenti), warmth rather than arctic chill. Oistrakh delivers the goods.

[Ken B]

Well I think a few pages ago I must have explained my personal preferences for this concerto: quick(ish) outer movements, a white-hot violin soloist, romantic playing (intelligent use of vibrato, occasional portamenti), warmth rather than arctic chill. Oistrakh delivers the goods.

Pepsi, not pure cold water? 

[Mirror Image]

Well I think a few pages ago I must have explained my personal preferences for this concerto: quick(ish) outer movements, a white-hot violin soloist, romantic playing (intelligent use of vibrato, occasional portamenti), warmth rather than arctic chill. Oistrakh delivers the goods.

Oh, I see. Sounds like a miss for me. I prefer a combination of both emotional extremes.

[Sergeant Rock]

....your favorite recorded performance is of these works. Thanks!

Symphony No. 3 in C major, Op. 52 - performance of choice: Ashkenazy/Philharmonia
Symphony No. 4 in A minor, Op. 63 - performance of choice: Maazel/Vienna
The Oceanides, Op. 73 - performance of choice: Vänskä/Lahti
The Origin of Fire, Op. 32 (Original Version) - performance of choice: Vänskä/Lahti
Lemminkainen Suite, Op. 22 - performance of choice: Franck/Swedish RSO


Sarge