Tchaikovsky ballets

[Que]

Uffe, we've discussed this before - ballet is NOT operatic or vocal...
So NO need to move the thread IMO.

Last time I got a "yes, but it's on DVD" kind of answer.
Well, apart from the fact that that argument would be rather besides the point - concerts are occasionally also recorded on DVD, no DVD's were discussed in this thread.

Q

[Harry]

Your protest is duly noted, Harry! 
What I mean is that Gergiev is too hard-driven - even relentless, rather charmless and accentuated in a way that reminds me more of Modernism than of a Romanticism.

Thanks for the info.

Q

Well Gergiev is not accompanying ballet dancers, its a concert performance, so the tempi are somewhat faster.
If you call that modernism, than I duly agree...

[Harry]

Uffe, we've discussed this before - ballet is NOT operatic or vocal...
So NO need to move the thread IMO.

Last time I got a "yes, but it's on DVD" kind of answer.
Well, apart from the fact that that argument would be rather besides the point - concerts are occasionally also recorded on DVD, no DVD's were discussed in this thread.

Q

Agreed, and that's two Dutch men in opposition....

[Wendell_E]

Uffe, we've discussed this before - ballet is NOT operatic or vocal...
So NO need to move the thread IMO.

Last time I got a "yes, but it's on DVD" kind of answer.
Well, apart from the fact that that argument would be rather besides the point - concerts are occasionally also recorded on DVD, no DVD's were discussed in this thread.

Q

Surrender, Que.  I'm afraid resistance is futile in this case.

I agree with you, but I think the argument was that since they're stage works, they go with operas, which are also staged.  "This board is for discussion of all vocal, opera and staged music, including ballet. "  Of course a lot of vocal music (lieder, oratorios, etc.) isn't staged, so...

Another argument for putting ballet in this forum was to bring more traffic into the Opera/Vocal forum.  Of course, if they moved everything (Diner, Elgar, string quatets, etc.) into it, that'd bring even more traffic.  And make about as much sense.

[Harry]

Another argument for putting ballet in this forum was to bring more traffic into the Opera/Vocal forum.  Of course, if they moved everything (Diner, Elgar, string quatets, etc.) into it, that'd bring even more traffic.  And make about as much sense.

That made me laugh for a long time, capital......

[Wendell_E]

That made me laugh for a long time, capital......

Bows to audience.  

[Que]

Surrender, Que.  I'm afraid resistance is futile in this case.

I agree with you, but I think the argument was that since they're stage works, they go with operas, which are also staged.  "This board is for discussion of all vocal, opera and staged music, including ballet. " 

Oh well, didn't noticed that.

Uffe - I surrender!

That made me laugh for a long time, capital......

Seconded!

Q

[Renfield]

I agree. Since I am very satisfied with my Svetlanov's Nutcracker - not so with Gergiev's over-the-top "Modernist" version btw - Svetlanov's Swan Lake is on my shopping list.

But... how is the Yablonski? 



Q

To add in a comment of my own regarding the Yablonsky: it takes a romantic, and strongly "Russian" (versus French) approach to the music, very much befitting of a ballet (rather than a concert), and while tending to "drag" (i.e. become stuffy) on occasion, I consider it a good recording.

But then, like a lot of people in this thread, I'm looking forward to the Russian Masters' (TM) performances of the Tchaikovsky ballets, once I get my hands on any of them. Case in point, Mravinsky' Nutcracker excerpts from that Melodiya disc were f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c!

[Que]

... I'm looking forward to the Russian Masters' (TM) performances of the Tchaikovsky ballets, once I get my hands on any of them.

Maybe I missed that. Which recordings do you mean? Rozdestvensky?

Case in point, Mravinsky' Nutcracker excerpts from that Melodiya disc were f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c!

Thought you might like that!  
Isn't it totally incomprehensible that Mravinsky didn't record any of the complete ballets?  What a missed opportunity...

Q

[Drasko]

I found Rozhdestvensky's Swan Lake from Rare Russian Records on some unknown label. It looks a bit dodgy...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROZHDESTVENSKY-Tchaikovsky-Swan-Lake-2CD-RUS-NEW_W0QQitemZ110186281854QQihZ001QQcategoryZ307QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

The only way to definitely prove (or disprove) the potential dodginess it to get it and hear. I'd buy it but unfortunately I'm paypal deprived and therefore ebay impaired 
So, you'll have to decide for yourself on this one.

[Renfield]

Maybe I missed that. Which recordings do you mean? Rozdestvensky?

Thought you might like that!  
Isn't it totally incomprehensible that Mravinsky didn't record any of the complete ballets?  What a missed opportunity...

Q

The "Russian Masters (TM)" was meant tongue-in-cheek, but I was indeed referring to Rozhdestvensky, and Svetlanov.

And a total shame indeed, Mravinsky's not having recorded the complete ballets.

[Larry Rinkel]

Well Gergiev is not accompanying ballet dancers, its a concert performance, so the tempi are somewhat faster.

Well no, he's not. But the fact that the work was intened for dancing should give a good sense of what tempos are likely to be most appropriate. Just consider the Dance Russe (Trepak) - which in Balanchine's staging more logically became the dance of the Candy Canes. Tchaikovsky marks it Vivace, and expects an accelerando towards the end. In Gergiev, it already starts out Prestissimo, and ends in a tempo that would give even the best-conditioned dancer a heart attack.

[Mark]

Sorry for this, but I just have to comment on it:

Ballet always has been in the Opera and Vocal house because ballets are danced on an opera stage and, like operas, usually tell a story.

I've no wish for a quarrel, Lis, but has this really always been the case? I've not noticed it in the 18 months I've been hanging around here. In fact, I'm sure I've started threads on Ballet music before now which didn't wind up in Opera and Vocal. Ho hum ...

[rubio]

The only way to definitely prove (or disprove) the potential dodginess it to get it and hear. I'd buy it but unfortunately I'm paypal deprived and therefore ebay impaired 
So, you'll have to decide for yourself on this one.

I've had good experiences with this seller before (buying Shostakovich 13th by Kondrashin/Gromadsky), so I think I will try it. It's not so expensive.

[Que]

I found Rozhdestvensky's Swan Lake from Rare Russian Records on some unknown label. It looks a bit dodgy...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROZHDESTVENSKY-Tchaikovsky-Swan-Lake-2CD-RUS-NEW_W0QQitemZ110186281854QQihZ001QQcategoryZ307QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Not so expensive, but a Swan Lake on 2 CD's - isn't that impossible without cuts?

Q

[Marcel]

...but a Swan Lake on 2 CD's - isn't that impossible without cuts?

I have Rozhdestvensky's Swan Lake - this recording from 1969, but not this cd. The work is complete - I mean totally complete - no Drigo's revisions to the score. And it fits onto 2 CD's without problem. I am not at home now, cannot tell you the total timing, but consider that 1st CD has cca 76 min. and 2nd CD has cca 77 min. So total time can be about 150 -155 minutes. The sound is unbalanced in some tracks, but it is not so bad, really.

[Que]

BTW I own a Russian recording not mentioned yet:



Its fairly good. Yet, I wasn't completely bowled over.
Apart from the fact that the orchestra sounding fine though a bit bland, Fedoseyev prefers the "soft" touch. It's just a bit to sweet toothed for my taste. I like a bit more passion and drive - even a few rough edges - but might suit others just fine. Sound of this 1985 recording on "Audiophile Classics" (subsidiary of GALA, I believe) is excellent. And there must be one or two cuts somewhere: playing times are 72 + 76.

Q

[Que]

Was anyone aware of this one? I certainly wasn't!



Q

[Drasko]

Was anyone aware of this one? I certainly wasn't!

Neither was I but it is fairly new, the release date is October 2007.
More interesting (and tempting) is that there is a DVD as well.

[hautbois]

Was anyone aware of this one? I certainly wasn't!



Q

It isnt a complete one is it?

Howard