Elgar's Hillside

[Karl Henning]

I love the violin sonata.
What's next, in terms of good chamber music?

Definitely the Pf Quintet, I should say.

[SymphonicAddict]

Definitely the Pf Quintet, I should say.

+1, an impressive work!

[SymphonicAddict]

That's interesting as I think Janáček's Glagolitic Mass is better than any choral work Elgar wrote. Oh, and as evidenced here, you're not the only person in the world who likes Elgar's oratorios. I don't like them because I think they're overlong and much of the musical material isn't memorable. We're all different and life's too short to worry about other people disliking music that we enjoy.

I agree about the Janacek. It's more interesting by far and has more 'personality' than many other choral works by Elgar IMO.

[Mirror Image]

I agree about the Janacek. It's more interesting by far and has more 'personality' than many other choral works by Elgar IMO.

Can only nod my head in agreement, although I do have a special affinity for The Spirit of England.

[Mirror Image]

I love the violin sonata.
What's next, in terms of good chamber music?

There's only three works total: the sonata, String Quartet, and Piano Quintet. They're all worth your time.

[mc ukrneal]

I generally love his music, but his chamber is less interesting to me than the choral stuff (and don't forget the part songs, which are little gems). But of all the choral works, the two that people seem to be forgetting is the Black Knight and the Music Makers (which are just fabulous). I listen to them most of all (as well as some of the part songs). The only Elgar piece I cannot listen to is Pomp and Circumstance, and that is because I played one part of it so often at graduations (you just kept playing it in circles as graduates collected their diploma).

[Elgarian Redux]

Spirit of England is for me one of the GREAT choral works - power and concision as well as an highly emotive subject.

I've banged on so much about Spirit of England earlier in this thread that it could be argued that enough is enough. But I'd just like to reaffirm the opinion I've held for many, many years, that I regard it not just as his finest choral work, but one of his greatest works of any kind. Given the character of Elgar, and the subject matter, one might expect it to be mawkish in parts. It isn't. Not even slightly. Furthermore, if you don't have the Alexander Gibson recording, with Teresa Cahill singing the soprano part, then I recommend you to drop what you're doing immediately, and get one.

[Elgarian Redux]

I generally love his music, but his chamber is less interesting to me than the choral stuff (and don't forget the part songs, which are little gems). But of all the choral works, the two that people seem to be forgetting is the Black Knight and the Music Makers (which are just fabulous). I listen to them most of all (as well as some of the part songs). The only Elgar piece I cannot listen to is Pomp and Circumstance, and that is because I played one part of it so often at graduations (you just kept playing it in circles as graduates collected their diploma).

There is of course Caractacus as well.

[Karl Henning]

I've banged on so much about Spirit of England earlier in this thread that it could be argued that enough is enough. But I'd just like to reaffirm the opinion I've held for many, many years, that I regard it not just as his finest choral work, but one of his greatest works of any kind. Given the character of Elgar, and the subject matter, one might expect it to be mawkish in parts. It isn't. Not even slightly. Furthermore, if you don't have the Alexander Gibson recording, with Teresa Cahill singing the soprano part, then I recommend you to drop what you're doing immediately, and get one.

Your praise is musically justified.

[Roasted Swan]

I've banged on so much about Spirit of England earlier in this thread that it could be argued that enough is enough. But I'd just like to reaffirm the opinion I've held for many, many years, that I regard it not just as his finest choral work, but one of his greatest works of any kind. Given the character of Elgar, and the subject matter, one might expect it to be mawkish in parts. It isn't. Not even slightly. Furthermore, if you don't have the Alexander Gibson recording, with Teresa Cahill singing the soprano part, then I recommend you to drop what you're doing immediately, and get one.

+1 for Teresa Cahill - I think the resonance of the Church recording venue adds to the atmosphere of the work too.  I MUCH prefer the use of a soprano exclusively - a tenor here seems just wrong!

[Mirror Image]

I generally love his music, but his chamber is less interesting to me than the choral stuff (and don't forget the part songs, which are little gems). But of all the choral works, the two that people seem to be forgetting is the Black Knight and the Music Makers (which are just fabulous). I listen to them most of all (as well as some of the part songs). The only Elgar piece I cannot listen to is Pomp and Circumstance, and that is because I played one part of it so often at graduations (you just kept playing it in circles as graduates collected their diploma).

No love for the Violin Sonata? For me, I think it's one of his most personal musical utterances.

[mc ukrneal]

There is of course Caractacus as well.

Touche!

[Mirror Image]

Touche!

Also there's The Banner of St. George, The Light of Life, and King Olaf.

[Elgarian Redux]

Also there's The Banner of St. George, The Light of Life, and King Olaf.

Indeed there is (are?). I confess, despite Elgar's music having been flowing warmly in my blood for more than 50 years, that there are some of these choral works that I've never much enjoyed, and Spirit of England is the only one that has ever set me uncontrollably on fire. True, I have greatly enjoyed Caractacus - try playing its finale at sunset at the top of the Herfordshire Beacon in the Malverns, when the Imperialism of it seems more noble and understandable than at other times and places. But I find it best enjoyed in instalments, rather than in a single sitting. I attended a live performance of Caractacus at Worcester Cathedral in 2011 and despite my deep desire to enjoy it, and the powerful sense of occasion (Three Choirs Festival) I found much of it a slog.

And yet, and yet ... I've several times stayed in a cottage tucked away on the west side of the Malverns, overlooking Birchwood, the house where Elgar composed much of Caractacus, and listening to the woodland passages of the music while contemplating that view, I've experienced a unique magical stirring of the senses that is specifically Caractacusian. That 'woodland' feeling that he succeeds in conveying here makes an interesting  extra-musical link with the chamber music, which was also inspired by the woodland surrounding him when he was composing that, in Sussex, much later.

I have a period sheet music publication of Banner of St George which has a fun cover ...



... though I like the cover more than I like the music.

I am of course quite incapable of judging whether the music in any of these cases  is fundamentally any good - I can only talk about the way I respond to it. So this post may be more about me than about Elgar. Or maybe it's about a composite creature: 'Elgar and Me'.

[Roasted Swan]

Indeed there is (are?). I confess, despite Elgar's music having been flowing warmly in my blood for more than 50 years, that there are some of these choral works that I've never much enjoyed, and Spirit of England is the only one that has ever set me uncontrollably on fire. True, I have greatly enjoyed Caractacus - try playing its finale at sunset at the top of the Herfordshire Beacon in the Malverns, when the Imperialism of it seems more noble and understandable than at other times and places. But I find it best enjoyed in instalments, rather than in a single sitting. I attended a live performance of Caractacus at Worcester Cathedral in 2011 and despite my deep desire to enjoy it, and the powerful sense of occasion (Three Choirs Festival) I found much of it a slog.

And yet, and yet ... I've several times stayed in a cottage tucked away on the west side of the Malverns, overlooking Birchwood, the house where Elgar composed much of Caractacus, and listening to the woodland passages of the music while contemplating that view, I've experienced a unique magical stirring of the senses that is specifically Caractacusian. That 'woodland' feeling that he succeeds in conveying here makes an interesting  extra-musical link with the chamber music, which was also inspired by the woodland surrounding him when he was composing that, in Sussex, much later.

I have a period sheet music publication of Banner of St George which has a fun cover ...



... though I like the cover more than I like the music.

I am of course quite incapable of judging whether the music in any of these cases  is fundamentally any good - I can only talk about the way I respond to it. So this post may be more about me than about Elgar. Or maybe it's about a composite creature: 'Elgar and Me'.

What a GREAT post!  I really enjoyed reading it and agree/empathise with everything you write.  In this part of the thread you have not mentioned "The Music Makers" which I seem to remember Michael Kennedy in his quite brilliant "Portrait of Elgar" counts are one of a triptych of key works - the other 2 being the violin concerto and the 2nd Symphony.  I must admit my response to Music Makers has always been stunning passages but not wonderful as a whole.  Of the bigger/longer choral works Gerontius remains my favourite simply because when the music blazes it really blazes.

Recently we went up the Worcestershire Beacon in the Malverns (I think you calling it the Herefordshire Beacon is a typo?) - impossible not to be inspired by the place/view - I'm sure you know this famous picture of Moeran with his wife Peers Coetmore there;

[Elgarian Redux]

Recently we went up the Worcestershire Beacon in the Malverns (I think you calling it the Herefordshire Beacon is a typo?)

No it's not a typo. There are two beacons. The one you show is the Worcestershire Beacon, and yes, it is utterly magnificent.

But just a few miles further south along the Malvern ridge, and very different in character, is the Herefordshire Beacon, with its wonderfully atmospheric Iron Age camp at the top. It was this that inspired the idea of Caractacus. I think I'm right in remembering that Dora Penny discussed it with him while out walking (or cycling) with Elgar, on an occasion while the camp was in view. Here's a photo I took of it about 10 years ago, looking north (you can see the Worcester Beacon, where you were, to the right of the camp, in the distance):

[Roasted Swan]

No it's not a typo. There are two beacons. The one you show is the Worcestershire Beacon, and yes, it is utterly magnificent.

But just a few miles further south along the Malvern ridge, and very different in character, is the Herefordshire Beacon, with its wonderfully atmospheric Iron Age camp at the top. It was this that inspired the idea of Caractacus. I think I'm right in remembering that Dora Penny discussed it with him while out walking (or cycling) with Elgar, on an occasion while the camp was in view. Here's a photo I took of it about 10 years ago, looking north (you can see the Worcester Beacon, where you were, to the right of the camp, in the distance):

Aah!  As my ignorance shows I've never been up the Herefordshire beacon - what a great photograph - thankyou for posting.

[71 dB]

I think no other composer has as much "I don't like this and that work" than Elgar. It's depressing and one of the reasons I don't want to participate much. I love pretty much everything Elgar wrote and I don't understand why other people don't. I just don't understand. I don't.
SO I am alone with my opinions and I don't care anymore. 20 years ago I tried to make people like Elgar. What delusional waste of time. Go listen to your Janacek if that's yout thing!! Even Elgarian Redux says he doesn't like The Banner of St George! What's wrong with you? It's a fine work. So tired of being alone with my views!

[Elgarian Redux]

In this part of the thread you have not mentioned "The Music Makers" which I seem to remember Michael Kennedy in his quite brilliant "Portrait of Elgar" counts are one of a triptych of key works - the other 2 being the violin concerto and the 2nd Symphony.  I must admit my response to Music Makers has always been stunning passages but not wonderful as a whole.

It's a while since I read Kennedy's book, and I don't remember much about it, but I'd query the validity of his triptych of 'key works'. One can see the importance of the Music Makers to Elgar himself, because it's almost like a retrospective musical exhibition with an overarching personal message, but like you, I find I prefer to listen to it in bits, rather than the whole. I certainly think the violin concerto would be an essential member of a 'key trio' (if it exists, which I doubt) - it springs from the essence of Elgar's struggle with his private and public personae, as is his deeply felt sense of the eternal feminine. But I can't see, myself, why the 2nd symphony would demand inclusion, instead of the chamber music (equally coming from somewhere deep within Elgar himself). I suppose it all depends on what one regards as the essential criterion for being a 'key work', and I suspect there are as many of those as there are potential compilers of such trios.

[Karl Henning]

I've only just got around to listening to the Third Symphony yesterday. Still mulling it over.