Elgar's Hillside

[Mirror Image]

Indeed there is (are?). I confess, despite Elgar's music having been flowing warmly in my blood for more than 50 years, that there are some of these choral works that I've never much enjoyed, and Spirit of England is the only one that has ever set me uncontrollably on fire. True, I have greatly enjoyed Caractacus - try playing its finale at sunset at the top of the Herfordshire Beacon in the Malverns, when the Imperialism of it seems more noble and understandable than at other times and places. But I find it best enjoyed in instalments, rather than in a single sitting. I attended a live performance of Caractacus at Worcester Cathedral in 2011 and despite my deep desire to enjoy it, and the powerful sense of occasion (Three Choirs Festival) I found much of it a slog.

And yet, and yet ... I've several times stayed in a cottage tucked away on the west side of the Malverns, overlooking Birchwood, the house where Elgar composed much of Caractacus, and listening to the woodland passages of the music while contemplating that view, I've experienced a unique magical stirring of the senses that is specifically Caractacusian. That 'woodland' feeling that he succeeds in conveying here makes an interesting  extra-musical link with the chamber music, which was also inspired by the woodland surrounding him when he was composing that, in Sussex, much later.

I have a period sheet music publication of Banner of St George which has a fun cover ...



... though I like the cover more than I like the music.

I am of course quite incapable of judging whether the music in any of these cases  is fundamentally any good - I can only talk about the way I respond to it. So this post may be more about me than about Elgar. Or maybe it's about a composite creature: 'Elgar and Me'.

Thanks for this post, Elgarian. I appreciate your honesty and we certainly share similar views, especially of The Spirit of England, which is one of my favorites from Elgar.

[mc ukrneal]

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
― Carl Gustav Jung

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
― Fyodor Dostoevsky

[Karl Henning]

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
― Carl Gustav Jung

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
― Fyodor Dostoevsky

Nice!

[Elgarian Redux]

I think no other composer has as much "I don't like this and that work" than Elgar. It's depressing and one of the reasons I don't want to participate much. I love pretty much everything Elgar wrote and I don't understand why other people don't. I just don't understand. I don't.
SO I am alone with my opinions and I don't care anymore. 20 years ago I tried to make people like Elgar. What delusional waste of time. Go listen to your Janacek if that's yout thing!! Even Elgarian Redux says he doesn't like The Banner of St George! What's wrong with you? It's a fine work. So tired of being alone with my views!

Oh come on, there's no need to be rude about it. There are many things wrong with me, but I don't think my lack of interest in The Banner of St George is one of them. (To be accurate, I don't actively dislike it. I just don't want to listen to it much. I love most of Elgar's music so much that the few that elude me don't bother me.)

If you have truly seen your mission as trying 'to make people like Elgar', I'm not at all surprised that you've discovered it to be a waste of time. I'd object to being 'made to like' anything, frankly.

All any of us can ever do is say 'this is how I see it'. There are no absolutes, even (I might say especially) where Elgar is concerned. Don't try to make converts. It's not a religion.  Just tell us how you see it, and grant us the right of either agreeing or disagreeing with you. Frankly, if you object to me, of all people, saying what I think - for I have loved the man's music since I was 16 years old - then I'd say you're very unlikely to get any positive responses at all.

[Elgarian Redux]

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
― Carl Gustav Jung

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
― Fyodor Dostoevsky

In all these years you've never irritated me, and so I protest at your attempt to stifle the advancement of my self-understanding.

[Karl Henning]

In all these years you've never irritated me, and so I protest at your attempt to stifle the advancement of my self-understanding.

Well, well, we cannot all contribute to advancement, can we?

[Mirror Image]

I think no other composer has as much "I don't like this and that work" than Elgar. It's depressing and one of the reasons I don't want to participate much. I love pretty much everything Elgar wrote and I don't understand why other people don't. I just don't understand. I don't.
SO I am alone with my opinions and I don't care anymore. 20 years ago I tried to make people like Elgar. What delusional waste of time. Go listen to your Janacek if that's yout thing!! Even Elgarian Redux says he doesn't like The Banner of St George! What's wrong with you? It's a fine work. So tired of being alone with my views!

Sibelius is one of my absolute favorite composers and I've had a love affair with his music for more than 10 years now. But guess what? I don't like everything he composed and why should I? Just because it's Sibelius? There's nothing wrong with making recommendations to someone, but don't expect anyone to be on the same page you are, because that's just not going to happen. It's simply the reality of the matter. I'm so tired of you making posts like this because you do nothing but embarrass yourself in the end. Stop being such a drama queen and accept that there are people that will never share your same interests but, please bear in mind, I do love a good bit of Elgar's music, but I don't like everything he wrote and anyone who has a discerning ear would be of a similar opinion I'm sure. Elgarian Redux is a case in point and look how long he's been a fan of his music.

[mc ukrneal]

In all these years you've never irritated me, and so I protest at your attempt to stifle the advancement of my self-understanding.

I am well and truly rebuked!

[Roasted Swan]

I think no other composer has as much "I don't like this and that work" than Elgar. It's depressing and one of the reasons I don't want to participate much. I love pretty much everything Elgar wrote and I don't understand why other people don't. I just don't understand. I don't.
SO I am alone with my opinions and I don't care anymore. 20 years ago I tried to make people like Elgar. What delusional waste of time. Go listen to your Janacek if that's yout thing!! Even Elgarian Redux says he doesn't like The Banner of St George! What's wrong with you? It's a fine work. So tired of being alone with my views!

IF Elgar is more prone to cherry-picking than other composers by listeners I would suspect that that is simply because a lot of the music he had to write had a direct commercial/financial imperative.  Not for him the luxury of dashing off another symphony when the whim took him like the financially secure Bax (whose music I love).  So - as mentioned elsewhere - not only do the Oratorios fulfill the Musico/Social role but widened Elgar's fame and paid a reasonably good commission.  Likewise the Salon music - which I think is quite beautiful - but was only written to generate a fee.  Part of Elgar's great genius for me is just how personal and beautiful is exactly this music that was written to order.  But others might perceive these written-to-order works as of a lower "value".

Elgar is absolutely one of my favourite composers - and I would like everyone else to share my passion too - but I also understand what it is in this music that others do not respond to.  So ultimately it doesn't bother me whether others like it or not.  Being upset that folk are not exactly aligned to one's own views and opinions is a sure way to become VERY upset...... ALL of the time!

[Roasted Swan]

I've only just got around to listening to the Third Symphony yesterday. Still mulling it over.

Let us know your thoughts once mulling has been completed!  I must admit I like it a lot.  I went to the premiere at the Festival Hall in London and it was a very special occasion.  It felt a bit odd - almost a time warp - to be at the premiere of one of the great British composers.  And not just some little fragment - a big serious work.  I think Anthony Payne has done a great job and it does not worry me quite where Elgar ends and Payne begins......

[DaveF]

Recently we went up the Worcestershire Beacon in the Malverns (I think you calling it the Herefordshire Beacon is a typo?) - impossible not to be inspired by the place/view

There are both - a Worcestershire and a Herefordshire Beacon, I mean - although the latter is almost always known (apart from to the Ordnance Survey, apparently) as "British Camp".  Good views from both, needless to say, although British Camp is a shorter walk from a good pub (the Malvern Hills, at the top of the Ledbury road).

[Karl Henning]

I am well and truly rebuked!

You are such a good sport!

[Elgarian Redux]

IF Elgar is more prone to cherry-picking than other composers by listeners I would suspect that that is simply because a lot of the music he had to write had a direct commercial/financial imperative.  Not for him the luxury of dashing off another symphony when the whim took him like the financially secure Bax (whose music I love).  So - as mentioned elsewhere - not only do the Oratorios fulfill the Musico/Social role but widened Elgar's fame and paid a reasonably good commission.  Likewise the Salon music - which I think is quite beautiful - but was only written to generate a fee.  Part of Elgar's great genius for me is just how personal and beautiful is exactly this music that was written to order.  But others might perceive these written-to-order works as of a lower "value".

Your comments remind me that one of Elgar's early ambitions was to become so famous that a letter addressed to 'Edward Elgar, England' would reach him. He was a paradoxical character (but then, aren't we all?), with all these hopes pulling him in different directions. And I very much like your perceptive comment that the music written to order was often personal and beautiful at the same time.

[Karl Henning]

Your comments remind me that one of Elgar's early ambitions was to become so famous that a letter addressed to 'Edward Elgar, England' would reach him. He was a paradoxical character (but then, aren't we all?), with all these hopes pulling him in different directions. And I very much like your perceptive comment that the music written to order was often personal and beautiful at the same time.

Yes!

[71 dB]

Oh come on, there's no need to be rude about it. There are many things wrong with me, but I don't think my lack of interest in The Banner of St George is one of them. (To be accurate, I don't actively dislike it. I just don't want to listen to it much. I love most of Elgar's music so much that the few that elude me don't bother me.)

If you have truly seen your mission as trying 'to make people like Elgar', I'm not at all surprised that you've discovered it to be a waste of time. I'd object to being 'made to like' anything, frankly.

All any of us can ever do is say 'this is how I see it'. There are no absolutes, even (I might say especially) where Elgar is concerned. Don't try to make converts. It's not a religion.  Just tell us how you see it, and grant us the right of either agreeing or disagreeing with you. Frankly, if you object to me, of all people, saying what I think - for I have loved the man's music since I was 16 years old - then I'd say you're very unlikely to get any positive responses at all.

Ok, but somehow I feel Elgar's thread is about what works one dislikes rather than likes. Maybe I misunderstood you and others here. I am suffering from extreme frustration* in my life so I probably react too strongly.

* political threads here and crossfeed thread on head-fi forum.

[Mirror Image]

Ok, but somehow I feel Elgar's thread is about what works one dislikes rather than likes. Maybe I misunderstood you and others here. I am suffering from extreme frustration* in my life so I probably react too strongly.

* political threads here and crossfeed thread on head-fi forum.

To the bolded text: yet you still frequent them after they get you so upset. I'm sorry, but it's your own fault that you continue to walk in that mine field.

As for as liking/disliking Elgar works and talking about them, well...this is what a composer thread is all about. I think it's better to discuss works that we like, but there's no harm in mentioning works that don't like as this stimulates conversation just as much as rattling off favorite works and why we love them.

[71 dB]

To the bolded text: yet you still frequent them after they get you so upset. I'm sorry, but it's your own fault that you continue to walk in that mine field.

That's part of the frustration. Very rarely do people tell me I am doing something right. Why am I this way? I wish life was a bit easier so that even people like me who are not supertalented would do some things right. Instead I have to watch while supertalented people like you yourself do everything right and don't even walk on mine fields.

[71 dB]

As for as liking/disliking Elgar works and talking about them, well...this is what a composer thread is all about. I think it's better to discuss works that we like, but there's no harm in mentioning works that don't like as this stimulates conversation just as much as rattling off favorite works and why we love them.

All I can say is that I seem to enjoy Elgar's works more broadly than even other fans of Elgar. To me Elgar's music just has this feel of being "correct." I am constantly surprised how much people "struggle" with Elgar. If they like something, it has often taken years to appreciate. People complain about the text of Elgar's Oratorios. I don't even pay attention to the text. I listen to the music. Singing is an instrument for me, not a source of text. Maybe that's why I don't struggle?

The polkas Elgar wrote for Powick Asylum in his early 20's are a bit tedious even for me... 

[71 dB]

There is this DG release with Elgar's Soliloquy for Oboe and Orchestra (Orch. by Gordon Jacob), a work I have never head before, but just listened to on Spotify.
It's a nice orchestral miniature (4:19).

[asin]B07PL9PY5G[/asin]

[André]

I have no problem with the texts of the oratorios (they are certainly no worse than Wagner's own librettos). The composer was moved to write of his finest music on them. They are of their time. Today's listener needs to set his internal clock back 100 years to appreciate the work as Elgar conceived it. Anyone with a sense of the passing of time can do that.