Elgar's Hillside

[71 dB]

One thing to keep in mind is, it's not a grand pipe organ part, but a harmonium-ish chamber organ part.

True. It is quite subtle and frankly nothing to write home about so it is not surprising it is omitted most of the time.

[71 dB]

Thanks! I like Elgar more and more with each listen, so happy to hear comments from longtime fans such as yourself. I have not heard Elgar's 2nd. Care to tell me your favorite recording of it? I have Barbirolli/Hallé from the box set that I've been listening to this past week.

As I said earlier, I am bad at giving recommendations. People want differetn things from recordings and I have noticed that often the first recording you hear becomes the favorite and other are compared to it (and are just wrong). Edward Downes on Naxos is the one for me, but that doesn't mean it is for you. I am not a Barbirolli fan myself. I prefer Boult to Barbirolli from that generation. Barbirolli/Hallé is a bit of a mess* to my ears but I compare it to Downes so there is that...

* recorded sound more than the performance.

I did see the Hurwitz video where he talks about his love for the Hickox Apostles, which pretty much put that recording on my radar. I think I'll check it out at some point, but the Dream of Gerontius is enough Elgar choral for me, for now. I have Barbirolli/Hallé plus the Hickox/London from a later era. It's a very fine work, and I like it a lot more than I expected to. I also looked up the Britten recording of Gerontius for Decca and liked what I heard.

As I mentioned, I haven't heard Hickox's Apostles either. Generally I don't listen of different performances of works because comparing them feels extra work, but with Elgar I do have multiple performances of many works. As of Gerontius I have these:

Bournemouth Symphony Chorus + Orchestra / David Hill / Naxos 8.553885-86
Hallé Orchestra + Choir + Youth Choir / Elder / CD HLD 7520
John Alldis Choir / London Philharmonic Choir & Orchestra / Adrian Boult / EMI
Sheffield Philh. Chorus / Ambrosian Singers / Hallé Choir + Orchestra / John Barbirolli / EMI

Again, Naxos was the first I heard and therefore feels the correct one, but the others are good too.

Gerontius is more attractive work than The Apostles and The Kingdom which require much more concentration to be enjoyed, but when I do it the result is extraordinary. Gerontius is a "showpiece" while the others are "meditation."

[71 dB]

Hope you feel better.

Thanks!  I feel better today so I try to write more here now that there is activity here.

It's just that so much of this is about recommendations and I am bad at those. I am much more interested in things such as why some composers/works/etc. are more popular than others.

[Roasted Swan]

As I said earlier, I am bad at giving recommendations. People want differetn things from recordings and I have noticed that often the first recording you hear becomes the favorite and other are compared to it (and are just wrong). Edward Downes on Naxos is the one for me, but that doesn't mean it is for you. I am not a Barbirolli fan myself. I prefer Boult to Barbirolli from that generation. Barbirolli/Hallé is a bit of a mess* to my ears but I compare it to Downes so there is that...

* recorded sound more than the performance.

As I mentioned, I haven't heard Hickox's Apostles either. Generally I don't listen of different performances of works because comparing them feels extra work, but with Elgar I do have multiple performances of many works. As of Gerontius I have these:

Bournemouth Symphony Chorus + Orchestra / David Hill / Naxos 8.553885-86
Hallé Orchestra + Choir + Youth Choir / Elder / CD HLD 7520
John Alldis Choir / London Philharmonic Choir & Orchestra / Adrian Boult / EMI
Sheffield Philh. Chorus / Ambrosian Singers / Hallé Choir + Orchestra / John Barbirolli / EMI

Again, Naxos was the first I heard and therefore feels the correct one, but the others are good too.

Gerontius is more attractive work than The Apostles and The Kingdom which require much more concentration to be enjoyed, but when I do it the result is extraordinary. Gerontius is a "showpiece" while the others are "meditation."

Gerontius is a "showpiece" while the others are "meditation." - that's a very neat and insightful description - the 'big' set pieces in Gerontius are just that - rather wonderful and brilliantly placed (and paced!) in the work - but obvious designed as "crowd pleasers".  The big moments in the other two are also wonderful but less instantly gratifying.  Personally I enjoy other people's recommendations - as long as there is an element of "why" not just this is it...... 

[vers la flamme]

Thanks, boys. Your passion for the music is infectious. It's early morning and I haven't yet caffeinated myself so I won't reply further than to note that I read and thoroughly enjoyed all of these posts giving opinions about Elgar's music and some of the recordings of it. I'll try and formulate a better reply in a little bit.

[71 dB]

Thanks, boys. Your passion for the music is infectious. It's early morning and I haven't yet caffeinated myself so I won't reply further than to note that I read and thoroughly enjoyed all of these posts giving opinions about Elgar's music and some of the recordings of it. I'll try and formulate a better reply in a little bit.

Be warned, the life of an Elgarian isn't an easy one, especially if you live outside the UK. For me being a Sibelius fanatic would be so much easier. Or Wagner fanatic. Brahms, Shostakovich, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler,... you name it would be easier to "explain", but being an Elgarian makes you outside the UK a weirdo who seems to love pompous marches for British Empire. 

[vers la flamme]

Be warned, the life of an Elgarian isn't an easy one, especially if you live outside the UK. For me being a Sibelius fanatic would be so much easier. Or Wagner fanatic. Brahms, Shostakovich, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler,... you name it would be easier to "explain", but being an Elgarian makes you outside the UK a weirdo who seems to love pompous marches for British Empire. 

Oh, I've feared as much

[Karl Henning]

Thanks!  I feel better today so I try to write more here now that there is activity here.

Good to see!

[Karl Henning]

True. It is quite subtle and frankly nothing to write home about so it is not surprising it is omitted most of the time.

That's actually the thing: it's a subtle color added to the texture. I love it: I must have listened to the piece five times in two days (admittedly an easy matter logistically, as it rests in the Media Monkey queue until I remove it. It's a beauty. A minor Elgar work, of course, but an exquisite gem!

[Lisztianwagner]

Elgar was certainly a composer who embodied the English spirit of his time, reflected in the majestic, glorious and elegant side of his music style. But beyond those appearences, his music shows remarkable facetings: it is very powerful and inspiring (with a great intensity of expression and colourful orchestration), but also lyrical and passionate, as well as thoughtful and poetical; his use of chromaticism is not as overwhelming as Wagner's, for example, but clear and suggestive anyway, and it is able to evoke deep, strong emotions that capture you and make you completely immersed in the atmosphere of the composition. Works as his symphonies, the Cello Concerto, the Enigma Variations and the symphonic study Falstaff are jewels in my opinion.

Be warned, the life of an Elgarian isn't an easy one, especially if you live outside the UK. For me being a Sibelius fanatic would be so much easier. Or Wagner fanatic. Brahms, Shostakovich, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler,... you name it would be easier to "explain", but being an Elgarian makes you outside the UK a weirdo who seems to love pompous marches for British Empire. 

I can understand what you mean; I live in Italy and I'm a great admirer of Elgar's music, but none of the classical music lovers I know like Elgar very much (or even know him very much); and if I mention him, the first thing they say is: "Ah, the composer of Pomp and Circumstance". 

[71 dB]

That's actually the thing: it's a subtle color added to the texture. I love it: I must have listened to the piece five times in two days (admittedly an easy matter logistically, as it rests in the Media Monkey queue until I remove it. It's a beauty. A minor Elgar work, of course, but an exquisite gem!

Sospiri is some of the most "Mahlerian" music by Elgar and has a very similar mood to the Adagietto of Mahler's 5th symphony. Perhaps this familiarity helps you appreciate the music Karl? While I definitely like Sospiri a lot, for me it is a rather "monocromatic" Elgar that plays with a limited selection of color and avoids completely the playfulness of Elgar default style.

That's Elgar for you: Some works by him bombard the listener with everything under the Sun (e.g. In the South, Op. 50) while some others like Sospiri are moderate with the expressive palette.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Elgar was certainly a composer who embodied the English spirit of his time, reflected in the majestic, glorious and elegant side of his music style. But beyond those appearences, his music shows remarkable facetings: it is very powerful and inspiring (with a great intensity of expression and colourful orchestration), but also lyrical and passionate, as well as thoughtful and poetical; his use of chromaticism is not as overwhelming as Wagner's, for example, but clear and suggestive anyway, and it is able to evoke deep, strong emotions that capture you and make you completely immersed in the atmosphere of the composition. Works as his symphonies, the Cello Concerto, the Enigma Variations and the symphonic study Falstaff are jewels in my opinion.

I can understand what you mean; I live in Italy and I'm a great admirer of Elgar's music, but none of the classical music lovers I know like Elgar very much (or even know him very much); and if I mention him, the first thing they say is: "Ah, the composer of Pomp and Circumstance". 

Must admit, when I was younger and found out that he had written that, I shuddered; it makes me think of high school graduations, etc.

You folks might enjoy reading this article:  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-does-every-american-graduation-play-pomp-and-circumstance-180963504/

I love certain works by his...am still trying to warm myself to his choral works though.

PD

[71 dB]

I can understand what you mean; I live in Italy and I'm a great admirer of Elgar's music, but none of the classical music lovers I know like Elgar very much (or even know him very much); and if I mention him, the first thing they say is: "Ah, the composer of Pomp and Circumstance". 

Yes, Elgar's music hasn't "traveled" much beyond Germany and the US. Both Italy and Finland are too distant culturally. 

[Roasted Swan]

Sospiri is some of the most "Mahlerian" music by Elgar and has a very similar mood to the Adagietto of Mahler's 5th symphony. Perhaps this familiarity helps you appreciate the music Karl? While I definitely like Sospiri a lot, for me it is a rather "monocromatic" Elgar that plays with a limited selection of color and avoids completely the playfulness of Elgar default style.

That's Elgar for you: Some works by him bombard the listener with everything under the Sun (e.g. In the South, Op. 50) while some others like Sospiri are moderate with the expressive palette.

To the sentance in bold above - another very succinct and acccurate description.  Sospiri is a very elusive yet profound work.  Although miniature in scale/duration it is unusual in that Elgar writes something profound but using such a limited palette - exactly as you allude to.  Its actually a tricky piece for interpreters too - as normal with Elgar there are a LOT of adjustments to tempi/dynamics/expressive markings in the score and the problem is to incorporate those directions without the result sounding broken up and lacking a coherent over-arching flow.  Of course that's where the great Elgar conductor/interpreters come in and find the balance between slavish adherence to the "letter" of the score and something that achieves the spirit of what he wrote without necessarily obeying every literal comma and tenuto.   

Fun-fact: Elgar dedicated Sospiri to W H "Billy" Reed who was the then leader of the LSO who became a close friend and confident of the composer - helping him with technical aspects of the Violin Concerto and Sonata etc (he gave the actual first performance of the violin concerto the day before Kriesler's orchestral premiere in a domestic violin and piano run through).  Reed's modern day fame probably rests on his authorship of "Elgar as I knew him" which reproduced/made people aware for the first time of the sketches for Symphony No.3

[Karl Henning]

Sospiri is some of the most "Mahlerian" music by Elgar and has a very similar mood to the Adagietto of Mahler's 5th symphony. Perhaps this familiarity helps you appreciate the music Karl? While I definitely like Sospiri a lot, for me it is a rather "monocromatic" Elgar that plays with a limited selection of color and avoids completely the playfulness of Elgar default style.

That's Elgar for you: Some works by him bombard the listener with everything under the Sun (e.g. In the South, Op. 50) while some others like Sospiri are moderate with the expressive palette.

An interesting comparison! I don't have a recollection of the very first time I listened to Sospiri, my guess is that I would have liked it from the first I heard it. I don't think it would be particularly related to my liking for the Mahler Adagietto. (I have been listening to the Adagietto a few times of late. Of course, Mahler no less than Elgar, generally avails himself of a wider color palette.

[Klaatu]

Elgar's friend and dedicatee of "Sospiri", the violinist Billy Reed, was a minor composer in addition to his other accomplishments. Some of his music has now been recorded:

https://www.discogs.com/release/7660706-W-H-Reed-Music-For-Violin-Piano

[71 dB]

Elgar's friend and dedicatee of "Sospiri", the violinist Billy Reed, was a minor composer in addition to his other accomplishments. Some of his music has now been recorded:

https://www.discogs.com/release/7660706-W-H-Reed-Music-For-Violin-Piano

Now been recorded? That disc was recorded 20 years ago!

[71 dB]

Of course, Mahler no less than Elgar, generally avails himself of a wider color palette.

Of course, but it is a somewhat different palette.

[Elgarian Redux]

Be warned, the life of an Elgarian isn't an easy one, especially if you live outside the UK. For me being a Sibelius fanatic would be so much easier. Or Wagner fanatic. Brahms, Shostakovich, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler,... you name it would be easier to "explain", but being an Elgarian makes you outside the UK a weirdo who seems to love pompous marches for British Empire. 

I don't find my life to have been made more difficult by loving Elgar's music, but I do find I can be misunderstood if I mention it. Even here in England, I have to explain (if the topic comes up) that the Elgar who has been my lifetime companion is not the Elgar of Pomp and Circumstance. Rather, he is the Elgar of The Enigma Variations, the violin and cello concertos, the exquisite chamber music, the Introduction and Allegro for Strings, the two-and-a-bit symphonies, and The Spirit of England. He's the Elgar who, as conductor, asked his orchestra to play the slow movement of the 1st symphony 'as if it were something they'd heard down by the river.'

I've never been able to separate the man from the English landscape. I've walked the same walks as he did around Malvern. I've cycled the routes that he marked out on his own cycling maps. He said the music was in the air all around, and he just took what he needed - and his music sounds like that, to me. It's born from high hills, distant vistas, the wind in the grass. It's maybe significant that he owned an aeolian harp (I think I recall reading that he built it, but I can't be sure).

True, Elgar was an Imperialist who saw the Empire as the spreading of a chivalric ideal of brotherhood, and he did indeed compose the Pomp and Circumstance marches. But truly, I just don't think about it very much. It has nothing to do with my gratitude to the man for composing so much life-changing music.

[Karl Henning]

I don't find my life to have been made more difficult by loving Elgar's music, but I do find I can be misunderstood if I mention it. Even here in England, I have to explain (if the topic comes up) that the Elgar who has been my lifetime companion is not the Elgar of Pomp and Circumstance. Rather, he is the Elgar of The Enigma Variations, the violin and cello concertos, the exquisite chamber music, the Introduction and Allegro for Strings, the two-and-a-bit symphonies, and The Spirit of England. He's the Elgar who, as conductor, asked his orchestra to play the slow movement of the 1st symphony 'as if it were something they'd heard down by the river.'

I've never been able to separate the man from the English landscape. I've walked the same walks as he did around Malvern. I've cycled the routes that he marked out on his own cycling maps. He said the music was in the air all around, and he just took what he needed - and his music sounds like that, to me. It's born from high hills, distant vistas, the wind in the grass. It's maybe significant that he owned an aeolian harp (I think I recall reading that he built it, but I can't be sure).

True, Elgar was an Imperialist who saw the Empire as the spreading of a chivalric ideal of brotherhood, and he did indeed compose the Pomp and Circumstance marches. But truly, I just don't think about it very much. It has nothing to do with my gratitude to the man for composing so much life-changing music.

Great to "see" you, Alan!