Elgar's Hillside

[Elgarian]

Landed today:



Already listening to In the South. Absolutely gorgeous! Boult was just so damn good at conducting Elgar.

I have a memory (can't quite place where I got it from, right now) of Elgar saying to the young Adrian Boult that he felt the future of his music was safe in his hands. True enough (and well-evidenced by that 2 CD set).

[Luke]

I don't remember who on GMG made the observation, and don't remember which composer was specifically being discussed at the time, but someone once commented that composers seem generally to conduct their own music at a faster pace than other conductors do. Apparently here is another instance.

Coincidentally I just got home and found the postman had delivered my box set of the complete Elgar electric recordings (as discussed above). Haven't had time to listen yet, but apropos of what you just said I find it interesting that in the liner notes is this observation, taken from a letter sent by George Bernard Shaw to Elgar. GBS was present at the recording session he's commenting on

It was a mistaken kindness to [Landon Ronald], because he knows your scores by heart, and suffers agonies in his longing to conduct them himsel. He wants to make more of every passage than you do. A composer always strikes an adorer as being callous.

[Mirror Image]

I have a memory (can't quite place where I got it from, right now) of Elgar saying to the young Adrian Boult that he felt the future of his music was safe in his hands. True enough (and well-evidenced by that 2 CD set).

This may end up being some of favorite Elgar recordings. I'm enjoying this much more than his Lyrita recordings. In the South was beautifully played. These performances are all one could ask for. Certainly better than the Solti!

[madaboutmahler]

This may end up being some of favorite Elgar recordings. I'm enjoying this much more than his Lyrita recordings. In the South was beautifully played. These performances are all one could ask for. Certainly better than the Solti!

Very different to the Solti... but certainly one of my favourite Elgar recordings of all time - despite a few editing issues, only minor! Let us know what you think of his performances of the symphonies, you'll enjoy them I'm sure, full of beauty and passion!

Daniel

[Mirror Image]

Very different to the Solti... but certainly one of my favourite Elgar recordings of all time - despite a few editing issues, only minor! Let us know what you think of his performances of the symphonies, you'll enjoy them I'm sure, full of beauty and passion!

Daniel

I've heard the entire 2-CD set, Daniel and the performances are fantastic. Boult knew Elgar's music so well. He conducts the music with such authority.

[madaboutmahler]

I've heard the entire 2-CD set, Daniel and the performances are fantastic. Boult knew Elgar's music so well. He conducts the music with such authority.

Glad you enjoyed it all, John! Hopefully you admire Elgar more now!

Daniel

[Mirror Image]

Glad you enjoyed it all, John! Hopefully you admire Elgar more now!

Daniel

Oh, I never didn't admire Elgar. I've always enjoyed his music, but it just wasn't music I returned to much, but, yes, right now, I've been re-evaluating my view on Elgar and I can say with some enthusiasm that I'm enjoying the music a lot more this time around.

Elgar seems to be a composer, maybe this is just for me though, that gets better and better on repeat listening. I continue to find little details in the music that I hadn't heard before each time around. I agree with you, Daniel, that Elgar's 2nd is one of his crowning achievements.

[madaboutmahler]

Oh, I never didn't admire Elgar. I've always enjoyed his music, but it just wasn't music I returned to much, but, yes, right now, I've been re-evaluating my view on Elgar and I can say with some enthusiasm that I'm enjoying the music a lot more this time around.

Elgar seems to be a composer, maybe this is just for me though, that gets better and better on repeat listening. I continue to find little details in the music that I hadn't heard before each time around. I agree with you, Daniel, that Elgar's 2nd is one of his crowning achievements.

Really glad that you are enjoying Elgar a lot more this time round! More for you to explore! Not sure if you know the oratorios yet? Much beautiful music to be found there! And some really excellent chamber music as well, although Elgar's real excellence did lie in the orchestral music!

[71 dB]

Just ordered more Elgar:

Enigma Variations + Pomp and Circumstance Marches 1-5 - Boult/EMI
Symphonies 1 & 2 + other works - Boult/EMI

Oh, I never didn't admire Elgar. I've always enjoyed his music, but it just wasn't music I returned to much, but, yes, right now, I've been re-evaluating my view on Elgar and I can say with some enthusiasm that I'm enjoying the music a lot more this time around.

Good to hear people getting better into Elgar. 

Elgar seems to be a composer, maybe this is just for me though, that gets better and better on repeat listening. I continue to find little details in the music that I hadn't heard before each time around. I agree with you, Daniel, that Elgar's 2nd is one of his crowning achievements.

Yes, Elgar seems to be that kind of composer. His compositions don't reveal everything on first listening. I have been talking about multidimensionality. That is, I feel Elgar was able to control musical dimensions (melody, harmony, timbre, rhythm, development etc.) so that they can operate together to form more complex musical structures than the notes on the score would indicate.

[71 dB]

Elgar's real excellence did lie in the orchestral music!

Orchestral and choral music 

[TheGSMoeller]

Orchestral and choral music 

I'm starting to believe it's his choral music, I find myself extremely moved by such pieces as The Black Knight, The Dream of Gerontius, The Music Makers, Sea Pictures (although solo voice), and just recently The Spirit of England and frequent these more than others.

My favorites most likely will always be Symphony No. 2. and Cello Concerto in E minor, but Elgar's choral music consistently impresses me.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Good to hear people getting better into Elgar. 

It's clear to me that GMG is Elgarising at an enormous rate... Elgar has been rising in my estimation, too, these past few months, though I always loved his music. He really is a fascinating composer and a fascinating man.

[DavidRoss]

It's clear to me that GMG is Elgarising at an enormous rate... Elgar has been rising in my estimation, too, these past few months, though I always loved his music. He really is a fascinating composer and a fascinating man.

It helps to have a thoughtful advocate who addresses what he loves about the man's music instead of assaulting the wit and judgment of others who admire Beethoven and others.  I have always loved certain of Elgar's works--the cello concerto above all others--but still find too much swagger and bombast in the symphonies to suit me.  Yet I return to them occasionally, giving the lightning a chance to strike.

[Elgarian]

I ... still find too much swagger and bombast in the symphonies to suit me.  Yet I return to them occasionally, giving the lightning a chance to strike.

There's unabashed swagger and bombast in the finale of Caractacus, certainly, but ... in the symphonies? I wonder what's going on there, Dave. I don't hear swagger, or bombast, myself, in those. This is too big an issue to be addressed in passing, but I suspect the answer lies in the various conflicting attitudes to Imperialism. Elgar was undoubtedly an Imperialist, in the sense that he believed in the value of certain noble and chivalric ideals, and that the Empire should promote them. The difficulty lies in locating the line that can be drawn dividing that 'good' side of Imperialism from the jingoistic 'bad'; and unfortunately the associations of the latter have infiltrated and infected many perceptions of the former, and one of the great casualties of this over the years has been the reception of Elgar's music.

Next time you listen to the symphonies, you might like to try this experiment. When the music seems to suggest to you 'swagger' and 'bombast', try substituting words like 'nobility' and 'chivalry' instead, and see if they fit as well, or better. For me, they do. But I have to concede that this is a conditioning issue rather than a musical one. It was for me too, once (though not in the symphonies), and I know it's not easily fixed.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

For what it's worth, I don't hear 'swagger and bombast' in the symphonies, either. Elgar may have believed in Empire, but his symphonies are far too subtle and complex to be propaganda. They are too full of longing, conflict, mourning and pain.

[madaboutmahler]

For what it's worth, I don't hear 'swagger and bombast' in the symphonies, either. Elgar may have believed in Empire, but his symphonies are far too subtle and complex to be propaganda. They are too full of longing, conflict, mourning and pain.

I completely agree with you Johan, these are certainly not pieces of propaganda! Elgar wrote that he had poured out his sould into the 2nd symphony so obviously that wasn't just for the country, it was personal to him! I don't hear much propaganda in much of Elgar's music actually, apart from the Pomp and Circumstances and the "Coronation March".

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I completely agree with you Johan, these are certainly not pieces of propaganda! Elgar wrote that he had poured out his sould into the 2nd symphony so obviously that wasn't just for the country, it was personal to him! I don't hear much propaganda in much of Elgar's music actually, apart from the Pomp and Circumstances and the "Coronation March".

Of course, I know David never used the word 'propaganda'. But, like Alan, I sense behind the 'swagger and bombast' a prejudice about Elgar that was quite prevalent - Elgar as the apologist of Empire. The symphonies transcend the long-dead British Empire, being great music, where the personal and the public are perfectly interfused, just like Mahler did with his dying Empire.

[Elgarian]

I don't hear much propaganda in much of Elgar's music actually, apart from the Pomp and Circumstances and the "Coronation March".

You're leaving out the finale of Caractacus, which is so hopelessly over the top that the only way to cope with it is just to plunge in, suspend all disbelief, and revel in its over-the-topness.

But seriously, there are indeed only a very few examples of Elgar's work that might genuinely qualify for the 'swagger' label. They're very much the exception, not the rule, and Johan's keywords ('longing, conflict, mourning and pain') are the prevalent ones.

[madaboutmahler]

You're leaving out the finale of Caractacus, which is so hopelessly over the top that the only way to cope with it is just to plunge in, suspend all disbelief, and revel in its over-the-topness.

But seriously, there are indeed only a very few examples of Elgar's work that might genuinely qualify for the 'swagger' label. They're very much the exception, not the rule, and Johan's keywords ('longing, conflict, mourning and pain') are the prevalent ones.

haha What a powerful finale it is though! Caractacus is a masterpiece, shame it is so underrated!

Daniel

[Elgarian]

HOW TO COPE WITH THE FINALE OF CARACTACUS

1. Ascend the Herefordshire Beacon, in the Malvern Hills ...





2. ...  right to the very top, to the British Camp - legendary location of Caractacus:





3. Survey the world at your feet. Put on headphones. Listen to the finale of Caractacus. It will be OK this time.