Elgar's Hillside

[karlhenning]

It's good to touch base sometimes, in these deep exchanges that take us where no previous thinking has led; so yes, let's reassure ourselves that we were talking about Elgar. Speaking of which, I can present the assembled company with (a) two images; and (b) news of an interesting cheap CD set. First, the images:

Sunset on Thursday evening, viewed from the British Camp on the top of the Herefordshire Beacon (the site that inspired the composition of Caractacus)




Elgar's Birthplace cottage, as of yesterday afternoon.




And finally, the CD set:

 

Now this looks interesting for several reasons. First, Bisengaliev released two CDs of Elgar's chamber music some years ago (still available but not usually cheap), and those two CDs are included in this 3-CD set. I've owned one of those for some time, and his violin sonata is definitely worth listening to. However, he has now (much more recently) recorded the violin concerto, and this new recording has been bundled with the two earlier CDs in this very attractive Naxos set, which is cheap enough for me to be able to buy it without worrying about duplicating the sonata CD. I think (but am not yet certain) that this set includes every violin work by Elgar, including some rare oddments. The big question is: what's his violin concerto like? I'll report back when I've listened.

Thanks, Alan, both for the lovely photos and for the alert on this three-fer. I await your verdict comment on the Op.61!

[karlhenning]

Hopefully it works this time for you! I ordered a copy of Gibson's Spirit of England a few weeks ago because of the write ups on this thread, and loving it!

Likewise!

[Elgarian]

 

The big question is: what's his violin concerto like? I'll report back when I've listened.

And here I am reporting back, and I think his performance of the concerto is pretty damn wonderful. It seems that they have a really fine feeling for Elgar over in Kazakhstan, which is where this recent recording was made. At no stage did I find myself longing for Bean, or Mehuhin, or Kang; on the contrary, I was more than willing to let him take me along on his journey, and a most moving journey it proved to be.

There are certain key moments in the VC that simply have to be right; I'm thinking for instance of the very first entry of the violin; if that doesn't show the necessary sensitivity, if I can't hear the music bleed in that first passage, then I'm going to have doubts about what follows. But there are no doubts here. Bisengaliev understands exactly what's going on: immediately we're into 'longing for the unattainable' territory - that bitter-sweet hovering between delight and pain that so characterises the VC. Another key moment is the beginning of the final movement, and the beginning of the cadenza, where we hear the spooky 'zithering' of strings, ethereal as an aeolian harp. These guys have got that to perfection.

This is a wonderful performance of the concerto that had me close to tears at times, and I fancy I'll be reaching for this one quite often in the future. Certainly anyone who owned only this version would have no reason to feel in any way short-changed.

I found myself thinking again about - well, not thinking so much as drifting among - those old ideas of Elgar's complex longing for the feminine, and the intertwining of notions of mother and lover, public and private. This recording encourages that kind of mental rambling. I don't recall reading any specific mention of the Demeter/Persephone myth in relation to Elgar, but really this concerto seems in many ways the musical embodiment of such ideas. I mean the cycles of mother/daughter/lover/mother, and of death and resurrection like the corn, that lie at the heart of the myth itself. The essentially innocent feminine-orientated hope represented by Kore has to die as she becomes Persephone, Queen of the Underworld; so in the cadenza the music and its windflowers have to die (and they nearly do), in order to be reborn - finally emerging, at least for a while, as winter ends and spring begins. Then, as the cadenza concludes, the orchestra raises its game, and carries the violin back into the light. For a time. Till the next winter; the next death.

[Vesteralen]

In addition to the Elgar Complete Electrical Recordings set and the Naxos Violin Music set, recent purchases include:



and



which have not arrived yet,

and



which arrived some time ago and which I am thoroughly enjoying.

I finished Reed's book and I loved it from start to finish.  The second section on "Elgar the Composer" was fascinating and right up my alley. 

Section Three on the Third Symphony was enlightening as well.  I wonder what Reed would have thought if he knew that someone did indeed "tinker" with it?

[cilgwyn]

I wish Pearl,or some other label.would reissue Elgar's acoustic recordings. I foolishly sold (needed the money!) the Pearl cd set,some years ago,although,I do still have cassette transfers of the recordings in a box. I may transfer some of these to cd,when I can. The electrical recordings are,I suppose,given preferential treatment,but the acoustic recordings are undoubtedly fascinating & have their charms.

[Elgarian]

I wish Pearl,or some other label.would reissue Elgar's acoustic recordings. I foolishly sold (needed the money!) the Pearl cd set,some years ago,although,I do still have cassette transfers of the recordings in a box. I may transfer some of these to cd,when I can. The electrical recordings are,I suppose,given preferential treatment,but the acoustic recordings are undoubtedly fascinating & have their charms.

It's only a very small consolation I'm afraid, but Marie Hall's 1916 recording of the violin concerto is still available, albeit split into 4 sections in a funny order, on this CD:



Me being me, I bought one just so I could rip off the 4 VC sections separately, and weld them back together in the proper sequence.

[cilgwyn]

I suppose,being that they are such truly ancient acoustic recordings,my cassette copies wouldn't make THAT much difference if I rip 'em! (Just a little more hiss! )I think I will do this when I have the time. I will try one of the cassettes later. The recording of 'The Starlight Express' is particularly memorable. The absence of these recordings in accessible cd form is a bit of a disgrace really,even if acoustic recordings aren't everyones cup of tea. These are recordings of historic importance & have loads of atmosphere to compensate for the inadequacies of pre-electrical sound. The set also includes an almost uncut recording of his Second Symphony.
Thank goodness,I at least,had the foresight to make tape copies (I didn't have a pc,back then!)& mantain a dolby tape deck! I hope that when they are reissued it won't be via heavy handed CEDAR style interventionist processes. I prefer a little hiss & crackle,myself. Pearl did an excellent job.

[cilgwyn]

I located my years old cassette transfers of the Pearl 5 cd box set of the acoustic recordings. Fortunately,I am always very careful about how I store tapes and they sound great. I am now listening to Elgars recordings of his Wand of Youth/Nursery Suite/s and these old c90 transfers are thankfully pretty good,albeit NOT Nakamichi good,but one of my better efforts. At any rate,on my dolby cassete deck the recordings come up very well. These are wonderful recordings,full of poetry and atmosphere & confirm my opinion that reissues of these pre-electrical recordings are way overdue.
Ony one catch. The C90 side turns were done manually & well,we'll see how they go!

[cilgwyn]

Update! The first few minutes of 'The Starlight Express' were very clear,but,largely,one channel only (I KNOW it's not stereo,I just mean through one speaker only),fortunately this problem cleared up after a bit & the remaining recordings so far are fine. Presumably modern software would enable me to resolve issues like this?
The recording of The Starlight Express is particularly delightful,all the singers brimming with character. All the more terrible that Elgar never recorded this music again & even : more reason for a reissue ASAP!
Enjoying!

Listening to 'In the South'. Marvellous,fiery,passionate reading which blazes through the limitations of pre-electric recording technology (this was cool once!). Reissues PLEASE!

And now I'm on the Fringes of the Fleet. Not exactly a masterwork,but what a rousing performance,almost vaudeville in places. The theatrical,pantomime laughs just add to the fun of the piece. Wonderful. Reissue please!

[Elgarian]

Presumably modern software would enable me to resolve issues like this?

Yes. There's a free piece of software called Audacity which would enable you to copy the section of music that has survived in the good channel and paste it into the dud channel (to get your double-mono sound back again). It's very good (I've used it for years) and you can download it here:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

[cilgwyn]

Thank you very much for your reply. I am aware of Audacity. In fact,I have downloaded it,but,apart fropm one half hearted go at it,I really haven't done anything with it....yet. Now,I have a reason! I shall have to have a good read up about it. These things can seem complicated at first,but it's just getting the hang of it. I will print all the instructions I can find out. Who knows? If I'm successful,there may even be an upload! Thank you again.

[knight66]

I see that Sir Mark Elder's recording of 'The Kingdom' has won this year's Gramophone choral award. I have problems with some of Elgar's choral pieces, such as The Apostles. If I say they remind me of Parry, that may suffice. I have never heard 'The Kingdom'. But I have found it on Spotify. I am listening now that award winning performance. I don't think it likely that it will overtake my love of Gerontius, but I am enjoying the lyricism of the solo writing. However the choral material so far sounds a bit four square.

Alan, was Elgar on occasion writing with amateur choirs in mind?

Mike

[71 dB]

I see that Sir Mark Elder's recording of 'The Kingdom' has won this year's Gramophone choral award.

That's cool! A must have disc then.

I have problems with some of Elgar's choral pieces, such as The Apostles.

To me Elgar's The Apostles and The Kingdom are among the greatest compositions ever. Boult's versions are all I have so far but they are soooo great!

I don't think it likely that it will overtake my love of Gerontius

Personally I find Gerontius simpler and more "direct" work than The Apostles and The Kingdom which need a deep meditative concentration to be appreciated because there so much thematic material flowing around everywhere. I understand why Gerontius is much more popular work and of course I rate it very high myself too.   

[Elgarian]

I see that Sir Mark Elder's recording of 'The Kingdom' has won this year's Gramophone choral award. I have problems with some of Elgar's choral pieces, such as The Apostles. If I say they remind me of Parry, that may suffice. I have never heard 'The Kingdom'. But I have found it on Spotify. I am listening now that award winning performance. I don't think it likely that it will overtake my love of Gerontius, but I am enjoying the lyricism of the solo writing. However the choral material so far sounds a bit four square.

I'm not a great fan of The Kingdom and The Apostles myself Mike; and I'd be quite incapable of making an informed comment on how intrinsically good they are. I did find Boult's recorded 'Introduction' helpful, explaining about the leitmotives, etc, which is included in the EMI box set:



But you're an expert in these choral matters, and it may tell you nothing you haven't already perceived yourself.

Alan, was Elgar on occasion writing with amateur choirs in mind?

I can't remember encountering any reports of any 'dumbing-down' in my reading (though I may just have forgotten any such). But my impression (it's no more than that) is that no concessions of that sort were made. I think Elgar expected the choir to rise to the challenge of his music, rather than the other way round.
I presume what you're suggesting is that they didn't have to rise all that high?

[knight66]

Alan, Thanks. I have had to break off my listening. But so far the choral writing is very straight forward. Gerontius is  pretty tricky and for sure no concessions were made. I will have to listen through and listen again. 'Apostles' has its fans, some of them distinguished such as Mark Elder. But I cannot connect with it. I wish I could! For me the choral writing is rather by numbers. I note that whereas Richard Strauss commented very favourably on Gerontius; he seems to have been silent on the other works discussed.

Mike

[71 dB]

I have got an impression that there's two types of Elgarians:

Group 1: Those who prefer Gerontius over Apostles & Kingdom AND Symphony #1 over #2.
Group 2: Those who prefer Apostles & Kingdom over Gerontius AND Symphony #2 over #1.

Group 1 is looking for impact factor while group 2 (where I belong to) emphasizes structural complexity in Elgar's music.

[knight66]

Thank you for your impression. And congratulations!

Mike

[madaboutmahler]

I have got an impression that there's two types of Elgarians:

Group 1: Those who prefer Gerontius over Apostles & Kingdom AND Symphony #1 over #2.
Group 2: Those who prefer Apostles & Kingdom over Gerontius AND Symphony #2 over #1.

Group 1 is looking for impact factor while group 2 (where I belong to) emphasizes structural complexity in Elgar's music.

I'm just wondering which group I fit in!
I love symphony no.2 just that little bit more than no.1, but I'd choose Gerontius over Apostles and Kingdom...  But I suppose I'm more for the impact factor, I don't tend to listen out for structure...

[knight66]

I think the soundworld and structure of The Kingdom is more reminiscent of the Victorian choral tradition; whereas one aspect of Gerontius that I value is its unique structural oddity. The narrative is wonderfully driven forward, the journey clear. But in the Kingdom, it feels like we are settling in for a night of jolly good, well upholstered, evangelical wallow.

There are lovely stretches, some very beautiful pastoral music and that Elgarian sweep does sometimes emerge. As with Gerontius, the orchestral preludes are as memorable and striking as anything. The idea that Pentecost would be expressed in this very un-hectic, civilised almost becalmed way seems to run counter to what I would expect in bringing the event to life. I think a deal of the solo male music is frankly dull.

'The Sun Goeth Down' conveys that pastoral, ecstatic mysticism that is really memorable in great 'Spirit of England' mode. Reading up on it, the piece was described by Elgar to be the slow movement to a never completed 'symphonically' structured trilogy of post crucifiction narrative pieces. Although it is tempting to suggest is ought to be listened to as though the slow movement of such an enormous symphony; for my taste it is too reverential and a bit dull.

Mike

[Vesteralen]

Given that you're so obviously enjoying Reed I'd say, even more emphatically than before, that you'd find it worth trying to get hold of Burley and Powell. That smack of 'I was there' that you're responding to is irresistible in all of them.

He is, and all Elgarians are in great debt to the man. But I've never warmed to his manner of writing, which comes in staccato bursts of information that I find hard to absorb or enjoy. I've just been rereading his Elgar - Child of Dreams, which has a very real and valuable case to make, with a core of real insight at its heart ... but oh, it's so frustrating to read. I feel always on the verge of being overwhelmed by the torrent of fact interspersed with musical examples that somehow seem to distract attention from his central case rather than lead towards it.

An interesting way of looking at it, as a set of pluses and minuses; I think the episodes of rudeness tend to spring from, or to hide, his insecurities and tendency to depression, and to understand the cause of an offensive comment sometimes provides a way of not being troubled by it. Of course if I'd been the butt of one of his jibes, I'm sure I'd think differently, but viewing them from a distance isn't the same thing! The really telling fact, though, is the degree to which he seems to have inspired a deep and abiding friendship in those closest to him: Reed, Jaeger, Burley, Dorabella, Windflower, etc. That suggests they understood him pretty well, and mostly recognised the little outbursts for what they were.

This past weekend I went to the main branch of my local library system and, lo and behold, there were a lot more books on Elgar than the computer web-site indicated.  In fact, I found a copy of almost every book on Elgar I've ever heard of (except the newer "Windflower" one).

In addition to the Rosa Burley book, I also picked up a book containing Elgar's university lectures.

The complete Moore biography arrived in the mail last week, so I'm starting in on that as well.