Elgar's Hillside

[TheGSMoeller]

Such activity in this thread. I'm exhausted from working. This week I have been driving around Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa delivering bottles to the best partners of the company I work in.  I had to deliver ALL of the bottles Helsinki has got plenty of snow. Lukily I got to drive a Nissan Terrano II 4-wheel drive turned on.

I see often people say that The Apostles and The Kingdom are long and a bit boring works but I rank them among Elgar's best achivements. Elgar's genius lies in quiet moments and these works contain lots of that, quiet but complex structures.

Sounds like you played Santa a bit. Glad you're safe.


You could count me as one of those critics, and I would never say they are poorly written pieces by any means. But for me, there's more variety in Gerontius that attracts, while also containing those quiet moments. The Aposotles I've only given a listen or two, The Kingdom I do own and have spent more time with it.

I guess I'm also more attracted to the story of Gerontius. I know the text has received some criticism, but I enjoy the theatrical-aspect of the work.

[71 dB]

Sounds like you played Santa a bit. Glad you're safe.

Thanks, I am safe. Yeah, I played Santa a bit (or Joulupukki as we call him in Finland).

You could count me as one of those critics, and I would never say they are poorly written pieces by any means. But for me, there's more variety in Gerontius that attracts, while also containing those quiet moments. The Aposotles I've only given a listen or two, The Kingdom I do own and have spent more time with it.

I guess I'm also more attracted to the story of Gerontius. I know the text has received some criticism, but I enjoy the theatrical-aspect of the work.

I have seen many people saying similar things you do. That's why I brought this up. I am in a very small minority and I am curious about why. I have to say that The Apostles and The Kingdom (Boult's) have given me perhaps the most mindblowing Elgar moments. I think this is because these are really large works. I suppose most people just don't take these works the same way I do.

Now I need to go to sauna (that's what Finns do)...

[Karl Henning]

There may not be much that I miss about living in a Baltic state, but the sauna is certainly one of those things I miss.

[71 dB]

There may not be much that I miss about living in a Baltic state, but the sauna is certainly one of those things I miss.

Have you ever experienced a Finnish sauna Karl?

The warmth of sauna is an important "compensation" for the cold weather we have to endure many months every year. 

[Karl Henning]

Well, I understand that an Estonian sauna (which I have experienced) differs to a Russian sauna; I don't know if there is aught different between an Estonian and a Finnish sauna.

[71 dB]

Well, I understand that an Estonian sauna (which I have experienced) differs to a Russian sauna; I don't know if there is aught different between an Estonian and a Finnish sauna.

Well, all saunas aren't identical in Finland but one significant trait is that the temperature in steam room should be at least 80 degrees Celsius. Finns don't like lukewarm saunas. 

The hottest sauna I have experienced in Lapland, the northest parts of Finland (Norway was 50 meters away on the other side of the river "Teno") had temperature of 140 degrees Celsius. I was only 11 years old and after a brief "self-cooking" I was more than willing to swim in the cold watered river. That was extreme. Normally Finns don't go above 100 degrees Celsius, typically 80-90 degrees.

[Elgarian]

I have a vague memory that on one occasion when Elgar was conducting the slow movement of the 1st symphony, he instructed the orchestra to play it like 'something they might have heard down at the sauna'. I suppose it was something he said in the heat of the moment. I think there might be something in it, because critics have long believed the dearth of compositions in later life was due to Elgar's running out of steam.

[North Star]

Well, all saunas aren't identical in Finland but one significant trait is that the temperature in steam room should be at least 80 degrees Celsius. Finns don't like lukewarm saunas. 

The hottest sauna I have experienced in Lapland, the northest parts of Finland (Norway was 50 meters away on the other side of the river "Teno") had temperature of 140 degrees Celsius. I was only 11 years old and after a brief "self-cooking" I was more than willing to swim in the cold watered river. That was extreme. Normally Finns don't go above 100 degrees Celsius, typically 80-90 degrees.

Sauna talk, yay! (ja kiva että oot selvinny ehjänä etelän keleissä autoillessa jalojen juomien kanssa)
The most extreme temperature I've saunaed in was about 150 deg. Celsius - after my brother had warmed the kiuas (sauna stove) for us at my grandparents'. We had to throw a lot more water on the bench than on the sauna stones.
But surely the more extreme experience was close to the Norwegian border for me, too - swimming in a 0 deg C (there were ice crystals on the surface of the water) lake Kilpisjärvi between saunaing.
Anyway, me and my father are very keen saunojas, and we used to heat the sauna to about 100 deg C, but nowadays we've found that it's much better when the temperature is at around 80 deg C, and we have the window open when we aren't there, so the air is really humid and oxygen-rich, too. And you can sauna longer, because of the less excessive heat.

Sauna is definitely the best place to socialize with friends, preferably with a beer or three - I don't think anything could be more relaxing.

[mc ukrneal]

I have a vague memory that on one occasion when Elgar was conducting the slow movement of the 1st symphony, he instructed the orchestra to play it like 'something they might have heard down at the sauna'. I suppose it was something he said in the heat of the moment. I think there might be something in it, because critics have long believed the dearth of compositions in later life was due to Elgar's running out of steam.

Did I mention that the worse the groan, the more I enjoy it?!?!?

[Karl Henning]

I have a vague memory.

[Mirror Image]

I see often people say that The Apostles and The Kingdom are long and a bit boring works but I rank them among Elgar's best achivements. Elgar's genius lies in quiet moments and these works contain lots of that, quiet but complex structures.

They sounded pretty darn good to me, Pujo (this is your name correct?). You can call me, John. Anyway, yes, I'm really hoping to get The Kingdom with Mark Elder, but also the new The Apostles recording (comes out in January). Really excited to listen to all the recordings I have coming so far! What's your favorite purely orchestral work by Elgar?

[Mirror Image]

I think there might be something in it, because critics have long believed the dearth of compositions in later life was due to Elgar's running out of steam.

Then they don't know their history. As we all know, Elgar composed very little after the death of his wife. I think he had plenty of steam, but he put his energies into conducting and eventually recording. I would like to pick up those electrical recording at some point just to have some historical references of the man himself conducting his own music.

[mc ukrneal]

They sounded pretty darn good to me, Pujo (this is your name correct?). You can call me, John. Anyway, yes, I'm really hoping to get The Kingdom with Mark Elder, but also the new The Apostles recording (comes out in January). Really excited to listen to all the recordings I have coming so far! What's your favorite purely orchestral work by Elgar?

Don't forget the Music Makers either. It's a wonderful work. There are a few versions, but I am only familair with the Davis/Teldec version, which is quite fine.

[Mirror Image]

Don't forget the Music Makers either. It's a wonderful work. There are a few versions, but I am only familair with the Davis/Teldec version, which is quite fine.

Yes, I need to listen to this work again. It's been way too long. I'll listen to the Andrew Davis performance. Thanks, Neal. By the way, what do you think about Sea Pictures? For me, this is Elgar at his most poetic. Just a lovely work all around.

[TheGSMoeller]

The Music Makers has long been my favorite choral/orchestral piece by Elgar, but with Gerontius quickly closing in. The Eldar recording of Makers is very good, so is Wright's on Naxos, which also benefits from a nice version of Sea Pictures.

[Mirror Image]

The Music Makers has long been my favorite choral/orchestral piece by Elgar, but with Gerontius quickly closing in. The Eldar recording of Makers is very good, so is Wright's on Naxos, which also benefits from a nice version of Sea Pictures.

I've got the Elder on the way. The other two versions of The Music Makers I own are the Boult and Davis. I'm not so sure about that Naxos recording, Greg. I heard this performance of Sea Pictures via YouTube and I was disappointed. I missed the orchestral weight of Barbirolli. Plus, I doubt any vocalist will ever top Baker's performance, but I've heard several that come close, but there's something about her voice and accompaniment from Barbirolli that just sounds so right to me. I can't get it out of my head and I'm constantly holding every other performance up to this high standard. I know this isn't good as I should judge a performance on it's own merits, but, still, I can't help it.

[TheGSMoeller]

I've got the Elder on the way. The other two versions of The Music Makers I own are the Boult and Davis. I'm not so sure about that Naxos recording, Greg. I heard this performance of Sea Pictures via YouTube and I was disappointed. I missed the orchestral weight of Barbirolli. Plus, I doubt any vocalist will ever top Baker's performance, but I've heard several that come close, but there's something about her voice and accompaniment from Barbirolli that just sounds so right to me. I can't get it out of my head and I'm constantly holding every other performance up to this high standard. I know this isn't good as I should judge a performance on it's own merits, but, still, I can't help it.

No doubt Baker is a classic, but similar DuPre and the Elgar CC, there are some really good performances of these works that shouldn't get overlooked.

[Mirror Image]

No doubt Baker is a classic, but similar DuPre and the Elgar CC, there are some really good performances of these works that shouldn't get overlooked.

Oh, I haven't overlooked them. I just know the gold standard when I heard them. That said, have you heard The Kingdom or The Apostles, Greg? I'd like to get your opinion of them.

[mc ukrneal]

Yes, I need to listen to this work again. It's been way too long. I'll listen to the Andrew Davis performance. Thanks, Neal. By the way, what do you think about Sea Pictures? For me, this is Elgar at his most poetic. Just a lovely work all around.

I have only good things to say about it. Baker is certainly the most often recommended and it is full of deft touches. But the beauty with songs like this is that every singer brings something different to the table and there are other versions with their own unique details/approach.

[Mirror Image]

I have only good things to say about it. Baker is certainly the most often recommended and it is full of deft touches. But the beauty with songs like this is that every singer brings something different to the table and there are other versions with their own unique details/approach.

Well this is true. One reason I didn't like the performance of Sea Pictures that Greg recommended (Connolly/Wright/Bournemouth) is because of the movement Where Corals Lie. I thought it was too fast and there wasn't enough weight from the orchestra. I need to listen Handley's again with Bernadette Greevy. I remember this one being really good.