Elgar's Hillside

[North Star]

I agree with everything you're saying about Alassio, it's would be in my top 5 Elgar - alongside the two symphonies, the String Serenade and the Cello Concerto.

Interesting to read this - I only know a small number of Elgar's compositions, but the concertos and Alassio are definitely great pieces, and favourites for me.

[Elgarian]

Slatkin's 4 CD Elgar Box on RCA is highly regarded in ClassicToday. That's why I bought it (it was also cheap). Is it my fault if ClassicTodays reviews are crap? Personally I find the performances of that boxset pretty good, but then again I haven't heard much A. Davis...

I'd like to add my contribution to those already made here: I have Slatkin's box too, and whilst he wouldn't be my first choice, the performances are by no means poor. One of my tests for an Elgar conductor (and I realise that I'm out on a limb here) is a simple one: can his recordings survive being listened to in the midst of Elgar country - the very source of the inspiration for so much of his music? I've had a lot of opportunities for experimenting along these lines. Andrew Davis's box certainly passes that test, despite some mutterings among reviewers about the unevenness of the performances. So does Slatkin's box. I can't see any sensible reason why you or I shouldn't enjoy those Slatkin performances, and if what we're writing here about other conductors makes you feel they may be inadequate, then I think we're doing you a disservice.

Usually the issue here concerns distinguishing not between good and bad recordings (I don't think I know any actually bad Elgar recordings), but between types of excellence. We sometimes lose sight of that, I think.

[Mirror Image]

Slatkin's 4 CD Elgar Box on RCA is highly regarded in ClassicToday. That's why I bought it (it was also cheap). Is it my fault if ClassicTodays reviews are crap? Personally I find the performances of that boxset pretty good, but then again I haven't heard much A. Davis...

In the South is Elgar's best overture and that says a lot since Cockaigne is also brilliant. Froissart is significantly weaker than the other two overtures, almost an excercise on orchestral writing compared to Elgar's later works.

It didn't take long for the 'Slatkin Brigade" to make their way onto the thread. Anyway, I pretty much ignore ClassicsToday and most other reviewers. If I believe the performance will be good then I'm going to take a chance on it. Before I buy a recording, I have to look at the conductor's history and look into my collection to see if there are any weak links in the given conductor's recordings. Unfortunately, there's a lot of weak performances in Slatkin's discography. I think he's overhyped on GMG. What the rest of the classical world thinks of Slatkin? I don't know. All I know is that he's done absolutely nothing for me. All in my opinion of course.

In the South is a phenomenal piece of music. I don't give a damn what anybody else says. It's a masterpiece not only of symphonic writing (the orchestration is unbelievable), but of being able to convey so many good musical ideas into a 20 minute span. Such an incredible composer.

[Mirror Image]

Sorry to hear of your lack of enjoyment for Elder's Elgar, John. Please, before giving up on him, listen to this disc:
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The performances of both Falstaff and the Cello Concerto are absolutely outstanding, IMHO.

I agree with everything you're saying about Alassio, it's would be in my top 5 Elgar - alongside the two symphonies, the String Serenade and the Cello Concerto.

No doubt, Daniel. I haven't given up on Elder. I just haven't been convinced of his way with Elgar yet. Only time will tell.

[Elgarian]

It didn't take long for the 'Slatkin Brigade" to make their way onto the thread.

Ah yes, the Slatkin Brigade. They cause nearly as much trouble as the Henning Gang.

[New Year's Resolution: work harder at trying to dislike my Slatkin box of Elgar.]

[Karl Henning]

Ah yes, the Slatkin Brigade. They cause nearly as much trouble as the Henning Gang.

Never! And if that is the rumor, then we've work to do, lads.

[Mirror Image]

[New Year's Resolution: work harder at trying to dislike my Slatkin box of Elgar.]

It's not hard for me to dislike Slatkin's Elgar recordings. One whiff of his mediocrity is all I needed.

[Brian]

Ah yes, the Slatkin Brigade. They cause nearly as much trouble as the Henning Gang.

Better known as Henning's Hoodlums!

[Elgarian]

Better known as Henning's Hoodlums!

Indeed. And as we know, no old lady's handbag is safe when they're around, Brian. Why, what with them, the Slatkin Sluggers, and the Mediocrity Molesters all at large, I don't think I'd want to be out wandering the threads of GMG on a dark night.

[Mirror Image]

Getting back on topic, what are your opinions of Falstaff? I really need to sit down and study this work more. I own a lot of performances of it. Any favorites?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Getting back on topic, what are your opinions of Falstaff? I really need to sit down and study this work more. I own a lot of performances of it. Any favorites?

My reaction is complex. One the one hand, I think the musical material is really good. Somewhere above I said that one of Elgar's most characteristic styles is the clash between swaggering confidence and underlying unease. Falstaff personalizes this in an interesting way (viz. the opening contrast of the Falstaff and Prince Hal themes). Conceptually, the piece is very close to Strauss' Don Quixote, both in its episodic nature and in depicting a clash of personalities.

On the other hand, I have my usually "tone poem problem," i.e. it's somewhat hard for me to relax and just enjoy it as music, since the whole piece is constructed to depict certain episodes from Shakespeare's Henry plays. Perhaps I too need to "sit down and study this work more."

[madaboutmahler]

Getting back on topic, what are your opinions of Falstaff? I really need to sit down and study this work more. I own a lot of performances of it. Any favorites?

A brilliant work, which I enjoy very much! And responding to your last question: ELDER!

[Mirror Image]

My reaction is complex. One the one hand, I think the musical material is really good. Somewhere above I said that one of Elgar's most characteristic styles is the clash between swaggering confidence and underlying unease. Falstaff personalizes this in an interesting way (viz. the opening contrast of the Falstaff and Prince Hal themes). Conceptually, the piece is very close to Strauss' Don Quixote, both in its episodic nature and in depicting a clash of personalities.

On the other hand, I have my usually "tone poem problem," i.e. it's somewhat hard for me to relax and just enjoy it as music, since the whole piece is constructed to depict certain episodes from Shakespeare's Henry plays. Perhaps I too need to "sit down and study this work more."

Hopefully, I'll gain a better understanding of it over the next three days I'm off from work. Right now, I'm stuck on In the South and enjoying every minute of it! Falstaff I plan to approach as a piece of music and not as music that depicts something. That's the composer's intent, but what the composer intended isn't always what the listener hears, which is why the musical reaction and study of will always be a subjective matter.

[Mirror Image]

A brilliant work, which I enjoy very much! And responding to your last question: ELDER!

I'll definitely listen to Elder's, Daniel. But Barbirolli is looming large over my head right now as is Andrew Davis' on Warner.

[Elgarian]

I don't have anything to contribute to the Falstaff debate, but I did listen to Slatkin's recording of the 1st symphony yesterday. It's been quite a long time since I last listened to it, and I must say I was surprised by how fine it is. The 1st symphony - to put this in context - is my favourite symphony of all symphonies. There's something about it that clicked firmly into place for me when I first heard it 50 years ago, and has remained in place ever since. I suppose, as with Enigma, I must have listened to it 100 times over the years - maybe more.

From the very start Slatkin is completely persuasive, establishing the nobilmente mood with  conviction, and - here's the rub - at no time do I find myself wishing I were listening to some other recording of this symphony. I'm perfectly content to be led through his interpretation, and all the key bits - the bits I most love - are handled with wonderful sensitivity. I think for example of Elgar's strictures when he was once conducting it, to 'play this like something you might hear down by the river'. Well, Slatkin has got that message very well - those characteristic Elgar pastoralisms are all there, interwoven through the music, and particularly in the slow movement. And the all important passage in the last movement, where the military march is transformed into a lovely, flowing melody - well, he completely nails that; and from there to the unabashedly optimistic finale there's no looking back.

So I emerged from this experience thoroughly delighted with what I'd heard. This is a finer recording of the 1st symphony than I remembered it to be, and one about which no apologies need to be made.

[Karl Henning]

Happy new year, Alan!

[Mirror Image]

I don't have anything to contribute to the Falstaff debate

The Falstaff conversation is certainly not a debate. I was more or less asking some questions about it: what do you think of the work? Do you have any favorite performances? Not at all hard to answer, but you calling yourself 'Elgarian,' I figured you'd have more to add other than saying: "I don't have anything to contribute."

[TheGSMoeller]

John, I find much to enjoy in Falstaff. It may not be as complete-sounding as say his symphonies, but its filled with colorful and dynamic textures, makes me wish Elgar had explored more in the tone poem genre. I'm quite fond of Lloyd-Jones on Naxos and Rattle on EMI. I know your thoughts on Rattle's abilities with Elgar, but the music is perfectly displayed, the CBSO really shines.

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[Mirror Image]

John, I find much to enjoy in Falstaff. It may not be as complete-sounding as say his symphonies, but its filled with colorful and dynamic textures, makes me wish Elgar had explored more in the tone poem genre. I'm quite fond of Lloyd-Jones on Naxos and Rattle on EMI. I know your thoughts on Rattle's abilities with Elgar, but the music is perfectly displayed, the CBSO really shines.

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Thanks, Greg. Maybe I've been too hard on Rattle. I'll check out that recording of Lloyd-Jones too.

[Elgarian]

Happy new year, Alan!

Happy New Year to you too Karl.