Elgar's Hillside

[TheGSMoeller]

Elgar's 2nd symphony may not be as structurally sound as his 1st, but this is more of 'open book' type material, a greater sense that we as an audience are getting to know what's in the composer's mind (and heart) through his music. It's a very personal statement, but also a well composed statement. Because of this, I've always found the 2nd symphony to be Elgar's greatest orchestral achievement. There is so much in the way of color and texture within this score. Melodies will start on one instrument and then seamlessly get passed to another before it ends. Harmonies and counter-melodies given just as equal importance to main melodies, sometimes noted to instruments along with enhanced dynamics so that nothing is hidden. All of this leads to my point, and preference, that when it comes to recordings or performances in most cases, I will take detail to the score and balance within the ensemble over individual interpretations. Not that interpretation is wrong, because isn't every single performance filled with interpretation from beginning to end?
It's a breath of fresh air to hear this recording of the 2nd by Sakari Oramo and The Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra. This performance just feels right to me, especially the tempo throughout. It feels quicker than most if not all others I've heard. It's longer in length to Solti's LPO recording by about 4 minutes, but its pacing has a much smoother glide. Compared to slower takes of this piece it seems less tragic, less theatrical but still with plenty of emotion. The finale's final minutes sometimes gives the sense of someone/something nearing the end, preparing to ascend from life but not before reflecting back. But Oramo keeps things a tad lighter, he instead has our protagonist (if there is one) nearing the end of the day, still filled with his deep thoughts, but looking forward to the future, to a new day, there's more hope involved here. 
Although I won't call Oramo and The R.S.P.O. the final word on this piece (or at least not yet. Ha!), I will say that BIS has given us the clearest and most precise presentation of this mighty piece. It goes back to what I was focusing on earlier, detail. BIS's SACD sound is outstanding, lucid and comprehensive. Imagine sitting behind the strings and in front of the winds for a concert, that's where you'll find your ears. Alright, I understand that's not where the audience sits, but my point is that nothing is lost, no voices get drowned out by poor acoustics or some hot-shot trombone player (it's ok, I know a lot of them). This is one of the best sounding CDs I've heard, also making it a perfect recording for a thorough listen with the score.
Recommended for everyone, and I would highly recommend this recording for anyone who either has a desire, or obsession, to acquire multiple Elgar 2nd recordings, you might find yourself quite surprised. I'm writing this after only one full listen, (with a repeat on the finale, it's that good) but I can say with confidence that Oramo and The R.S.P.O. deserve the same attention that other well known Elgar combos have received. Also, I don't often write this much about a disc so yeah, it must be good. Or is it the fact that I'm on my second beer...oh, never mind. Cheers! 


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[Mirror Image]

A very good disc for sure. I agree with you, Greg, about the clarity of the performance. This said, it still doesn't quite wipe my mind of Andrew Davis' Philharmonia performance on Signum, but it's a nice contrast to some of the more heart-on-sleeve performances I've heard like Barbirolli for example.

[TheGSMoeller]

A very good disc for sure. I agree with you, Greg, about the clarity of the performance. This said, it still doesn't quite wipe my mind of Andrew Davis' Philharmonia performance on Signum, but it's a nice contrast to some of the more heart-on-sleeve performances I've heard like Barbirolli for example.

It's interesting to hear a Finnish conductor with a Swedish orchestra perform Elgar. Not that I wasn't expecting a positive result, but just wasn't expecting to be blown away as I was.

I still need to hear Andrew Davis on Signum, I have his Warner box set, which is good, but always hear better things about his second effort.

[Mirror Image]

I still need to hear Andrew Davis on Signum, I have his Warner box set, which is good, but always hear better things about his second effort.

Davis' set on Signum is top-shelf Elgar. The performances are live and have quite a vibrant and energetic feel to them throughout. I can't say the same for his earlier performances of the symphonies on Warner.

[madaboutmahler]

Thanks for the feedback on the Oramo Elgar 2, Greg. I am very very tempted by this disc....

Elgar 2 is just perfection in my opinion. I agree, his greatest achievement and one of my favourite pieces ever.

[calyptorhynchus]

I have just been listenign to Mark Elder's recording of the Enigma Variations with the original finale. I find it much preferable to extended revised version, at 4 minutes the original EDU is on a similar scale to the other variations and seems more in keeping with the idea of the circle of friends.

Any thoughts?

[André]

I know my Gerontius as well as anybody who owns 8 versions of it, but yesterday was my initiation to The Apostles (Hickox version on Chandos).

Maaaagod ! So different  ! Other hearings are in order to be sure. Thankfully, there are not that many versions around, so a potential addiction would not prove too costly.

[Moonfish]

I just have to join the Elgar thread! 

Just listened to:
Elgar: Symphony No 2           Halle Orchestra/Barbirolli  [rec 1964]
Elgar: Elegy /  Sospiri            New Philharmonia Orchestra/Barbirolli   [rec 1966]

from
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I am not that well versed in Elgar's music (but I am eagerly exploring) apart from the obvious (Enigma Var/ P&P/ Cello Con/ Sea Pictures). Just as with Mahler and Bruckner the symphonies just come across so differently during this time of my life. Ten years ago I just could not focus on Elgar's S1 or S2, but now my mind lingers and appreciates them in a different way. Today's S2 experience was one of those moments and I am actually playing it once again (and I suspect this will repeat itself for life).  The movements all seem so different from each other and each listen seems to allow one to sense the complexity of the symphony. In my ears it has turned from a gritty cacophony to a harmonious journey - layer after layer. A composition that I sense one can form a longterm relationship with.

Regardless, there were two other pieces attached to this Barbirolli compilation.  Both the Elegy and the Sospiri were serene in the invocation of harmony and grace. Somehow I started thinking about Delius, but perhaps that is my imagination?  To me these two latter pieces seem peripheral in the Elgar repertoire so I am surprised at how much I liked them at my very first listen!  It seems critical to continuously reach beyond the established repertoire to at least approach these less recorded compositions.
How do you like "Elegy" and "Sospiri"? Short works, but already part of my favored Elgar pieces. Beautiful!

The Barbirolli set seems like a great starter kit for Elgar. I am also going to listen to the A Davis recordings w/ the BBC SO.  Would you recommend any specific recording from this point on or should I stick with Barbirolli?

[71 dB]

It's always cool to read people getting more into Elgar's music. The second symphony really is something, isn't it?  0:)

Elegy and Sospiri are fine smaller works by Elgar. Other orchestral miniatures you might enjoy are Wand of Youth Suites 1 & 2 and Nursery Suite. In my opinion Elgar's works are worth exploring, no matter how many times they have been recorded.

I'm not one who knows what's the best version of a given work. I'm just wondering if it's those old Barbirolli recordings making Elgar a bit difficult to get into? Newer crystal clear digital recordings might be a different story. Downes on Naxos was my first Elgar 2 and it's still among my favorites. I need to revisit Barbirolli on these...

[Moonfish]

It's always cool to read people getting more into Elgar's music. The second symphony really is something, isn't it?  0:)

Elegy and Sospiri are fine smaller works by Elgar. Other orchestral miniatures you might enjoy are Wand of Youth Suites 1 & 2 and Nursery Suite. In my opinion Elgar's works are worth exploring, no matter how many times they have been recorded.

I'm not one who knows what's the best version of a given work. I'm just wondering if it's those old Barbirolli recordings making Elgar a bit difficult to get into? Newer crystal clear digital recordings might be a different story. Downes on Naxos was my first Elgar 2 and it's still among my favorites. I need to revisit Barbirolli on these...

Yes, E2 is much more intricate and beautiful than I remember. It is indeed very enjoyable to find unexplored layers of music (especially with a renewed encounter). I will check out your recommendations and definitely get a peek at Downes' recording on Naxos.   Life with classical music is a strange blend of the new and the revisitations forming its own unique fugue, don't you think?
I think "best versions" don't really exist. After all it is just guidance and advice with one's own mind forming the bond to the piece (regardless if it is the best version or not). My hypothesis is that we often form a bond with the very first version we encounter...   

[Mirror Image]

I just have to join the Elgar thread! 

Just listened to:
Elgar: Symphony No 2           Halle Orchestra/Barbirolli  [rec 1964]
Elgar: Elegy /  Sospiri            New Philharmonia Orchestra/Barbirolli   [rec 1966]

from
[asin] B000I0SGXA[/asin]

I am not that well versed in Elgar's music (but I am eagerly exploring) apart from the obvious (Enigma Var/ P&P/ Cello Con/ Sea Pictures). Just as with Mahler and Bruckner the symphonies just come across so differently during this time of my life. Ten years ago I just could not focus on Elgar's S1 or S2, but now my mind lingers and appreciates them in a different way. Today's S2 experience was one of those moments and I am actually playing it once again (and I suspect this will repeat itself for life).  The movements all seem so different from each other and each listen seems to allow one to sense the complexity of the symphony. In my ears it has turned from a gritty cacophony to a harmonious journey - layer after layer. A composition that I sense one can form a longterm relationship with.

Regardless, there were two other pieces attached to this Barbirolli compilation.  Both the Elegy and the Sospiri were serene in the invocation of harmony and grace. Somehow I started thinking about Delius, but perhaps that is my imagination?  To me these two latter pieces seem peripheral in the Elgar repertoire so I am surprised at how much I liked them at my very first listen!  It seems critical to continuously reach beyond the established repertoire to at least approach these less recorded compositions.
How do you like "Elegy" and "Sospiri"? Short works, but already part of my favored Elgar pieces. Beautiful!

The Barbirolli set seems like a great starter kit for Elgar. I am also going to listen to the A Davis recordings w/ the BBC SO.  Would you recommend any specific recording from this point on or should I stick with Barbirolli?

Welcome to the wildly addicting world of Elgar! He's certainly one of my favorites and I seem to go through an 'Elgar phase' every year. For the last two years, it's been pretty much around the same time: winter. Who knows why? Anyway, Symphony No. 2 is one of the greatest symphonies ever composed IMHO and a symphony that really took me a long time to fully appreciate. I had a similar experience with Symphony No. 1. But I regard the 2nd as one of Elgar's greatest orchestral works. The breadth of emotion and moods is kaleidoscopic. Such an amazing work.

Have you checked out the Violin Concerto? This is another one of my favorite Elgar works, especially the Tasmin Little/Andrew Davis performance on Chandos, although there have been many fine performances, this Little/Davis is the one I continue to come back to now. Also, don't forget about the mighty oratorios! Such heavenly music. Sea Pictures is another favorite, because like say The Wand of Youth Suites and the Nursery Suite, it showcases Elgar in a completely different light. He truly was a multi-faceted composer. He had a strong intellect but he was never afraid of showing the listener his beating heart.

Yes, Elegy and Sospiri are beautiful miniatures. Check out Introduction & Allegro at some point. This, too, is scored only for strings. Great stuff.

[71 dB]

Yes, E2 is much more intricate and beautiful than I remember. It is indeed very enjoyable to find unexplored layers of music (especially with a renewed encounter).

I think it took me 6-7 listenings to have a feeling I understand the music of the work completely. It was never a cacophony to my ears.

Life with classical music is a strange blend of the new and the revisitations forming its own unique fugue, don't you think?

Interesting thought.  0:)

I think "best versions" don't really exist. After all it is just guidance and advice with one's own mind forming the bond to the piece (regardless if it is the best version or not). My hypothesis is that we often form a bond with the very first version we encounter...   

If the first version is good enough, yes. 

Anyway, Symphony No. 2 is one of the greatest symphonies ever composed IMHO and a symphony that really took me a long time to fully appreciate. I had a similar experience with Symphony No. 1. But I regard the 2nd as one of Elgar's greatest orchestral works. The breadth of emotion and moods is kaleidoscopic. Such an amazing work.

To me Elgar's 2nd is THE greatest symphony I have heard, Elgar's 1st following it. Sometimes I regret for having spoiled my ears with Elgar so that many of symphonies sound uninteresting to my ears. 

Have you checked out the Violin Concerto? This is another one of my favorite Elgar works, especially the Tasmin Little/Andrew Davis performance on Chandos, although there have been many fine performances, this Little/Davis is the one I continue to come back to now. Also, don't forget about the mighty oratorios! Such heavenly music. Sea Pictures is another favorite, because like say The Wand of Youth Suites and the Nursery Suite, it showcases Elgar in a completely different light. He truly was a multi-faceted composer. He had a strong intellect but he was never afraid of showing the listener his beating heart.

Yes, Elegy and Sospiri are beautiful miniatures. Check out Introduction & Allegro at some point. This, too, is scored only for strings. Great stuff.

Elgar's Violin Concerto is somewhat undervalued work imo. I prefer it to the Cello Concerto and it's among my most favorite Elgar works.

Elgar was a master of oratorios. The Apostles and The Kingdom are his greatest oratorios, then comes Gerontius imo. The rest of his oratorios are worthy too.

I like it how different works by Elgar can be. When I explored Elgar back in the 90's I was really surprised to find new aspects of his art with almost every new work to me.

[Mirror Image]

To me Elgar's 2nd is THE greatest symphony I have heard, Elgar's 1st following it. Sometimes I regret for having spoiled my ears with Elgar so that many of symphonies sound uninteresting to my ears. 

It's an outstanding symphony no question about it, but I love so many other symphonies that I could never say it was my absolute favorite. I simply can't ignore Shostakovich, RVW, Sibelius, or even Martinu.

Elgar's Violin Concerto is somewhat undervalued work imo. I prefer it to the Cello Concerto and it's among my most favorite Elgar works.

+1

[Moonfish]

Welcome to the wildly addicting world of Elgar! He's certainly one of my favorites and I seem to go through an 'Elgar phase' every year. For the last two years, it's been pretty much around the same time: winter. Who knows why? Anyway, Symphony No. 2 is one of the greatest symphonies ever composed IMHO and a symphony that really took me a long time to fully appreciate. I had a similar experience with Symphony No. 1. But I regard the 2nd as one of Elgar's greatest orchestral works. The breadth of emotion and moods is kaleidoscopic. Such an amazing work.

Have you checked out the Violin Concerto? This is another one of my favorite Elgar works, especially the Tasmin Little/Andrew Davis performance on Chandos, although there have been many fine performances, this Little/Davis is the one I continue to come back to now. Also, don't forget about the mighty oratorios! Such heavenly music. Sea Pictures is another favorite, because like say The Wand of Youth Suites and the Nursery Suite, it showcases Elgar in a completely different light. He truly was a multi-faceted composer. He had a strong intellect but he was never afraid of showing the listener his beating heart.

Yes, Elegy and Sospiri are beautiful miniatures. Check out Introduction & Allegro at some point. This, too, is scored only for strings. Great stuff.

Thank you for the warm welcome!
MI, It sounds as if you are a fan of almost every 20th century composer (as well as prog rock w/ Genesis  ).  Thanks for all those recommendations. I suspect it will (as always) take years to truly listen to and experience all these compositions. Actually, the very first composition of Elgar's I was drawn to was the 1st movement of Symphony #1 as I listened to it last year. Something pulsing and enigmatic in the theme that made me think about the composer in a different way compared to the P&P theme.

I listened to the famous Sea Pictures yesterday and found it very beautiful. Baker's voice resonated well with the harmony of the music and the lyrics. Are there other versions of Sea Pictures that you would recommend?

Elgar: Sea Pictures      Baker/London SO/Barbirolli

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[Moonfish]

I think it took me 6-7 listenings to have a feeling I understand the music of the work completely. It was never a cacophony to my ears.
Interesting thought.  0:)
If the first version is good enough, yes. 
To me Elgar's 2nd is THE greatest symphony I have heard, Elgar's 1st following it. Sometimes I regret for having spoiled my ears with Elgar so that many of symphonies sound uninteresting to my ears. 
Elgar's Violin Concerto is somewhat undervalued work imo. I prefer it to the Cello Concerto and it's among my most favorite Elgar works.

Elgar was a master of oratorios. The Apostles and The Kingdom are his greatest oratorios, then comes Gerontius imo. The rest of his oratorios are worthy too.

I like it how different works by Elgar can be. When I explored Elgar back in the 90's I was really surprised to find new aspects of his art with almost every new work to me.

Thanks 71 dB! So much to listen to!  Based on yours and MI's posts it sounds as the violin concerto should be next up for me. The oratorios sound like a long journey of its own. Those are definitely peripheral in the standard repertoire. It is interesting to see how most compilations of Elgar (with exception of the vast EMI set) simply compiles the symphonies, the Enigma Variations, P&P and a few shorter pieces.

[71 dB]

Thanks 71 dB! So much to listen to!  Based on yours and MI's posts it sounds as the violin concerto should be next up for me. The oratorios sound like a long journey of its own. Those are definitely peripheral in the standard repertoire. It is interesting to see how most compilations of Elgar (with exception of the vast EMI set) simply compiles the symphonies, the Enigma Variations, P&P and a few shorter pieces.

Well,  we should always take the time we need to enjoy the music. There is no obligation to listen to anything or need to rush things.

The Violin Concerto is a very good "next step". 

[Mirror Image]

Thank you for the warm welcome!
MI, It sounds as if you are a fan of almost every 20th century composer (as well as prog rock w/ Genesis  ).  Thanks for all those recommendations. I suspect it will (as always) take years to truly listen to and experience all these compositions. Actually, the very first composition of Elgar's I was drawn to was the 1st movement of Symphony #1 as I listened to it last year. Something pulsing and enigmatic in the theme that made me think about the composer in a different way compared to the P&P theme.

I listened to the famous Sea Pictures yesterday and found it very beautiful. Baker's voice resonated well with the harmony of the music and the lyrics. Are there other versions of Sea Pictures that you would recommend?

Elgar: Sea Pictures      Baker/London SO/Barbirolli

[asin] B008FEHZ38[/asin]

There are a number of 20th Century composers that I don't get on well with, but this isn't the thread for this discussion of course. Anyway, the Baker/Barbirolli is still the best performance of Sea Pictures I've heard and I've heard, and own, many others and none of them come close to the majestic sweep and beauty of Baker/Barbirolli. Hold onto that recording for dear life! The du Pre is my favorite performance of the Cello Concerto, but, like 71 dB, I'm no great fan of the work. There's just something missing. I can't quite put my finger on it. It just doesn't resonate with me emotionally.

Check out The Dream of Gerontius. This isn't my favorite Elgar oratorio (that honor goes to The Kingdom), but it's heralded by many fans as his masterpiece in the genre. Of course, it's a gorgeous work no doubt about it, just not one of my favorites. I really like Mark Elder's performance of Gerontius, so you may want to check that out at some point.

Elgar was a composer that I always liked, but it took me several years to love his music and I'm glad I stuck with it, because, now, he's obviously one of my favorites.

[71 dB]

...the Cello Concerto, but, like 71 dB, I'm no great fan of the work. There's just something missing. I can't quite put my finger on it. It just doesn't resonate with me emotionally.

The Cello Concerto is a damn fine work, but I just find The Violin Concerto a better work. I agree with you about the CC: Something seems to be missing and not until the last part does it even sound truly Elgar. It's kind of a "handicap composition" for a world, where orchestras had been crippled by the WWI. Anyway, this is what Elgar is about. The post war works by Elgar have a more reserved feeling in general.

quote author=Mirror Image link=topic=3503.msg805858#msg805858 date=1401592446]I really like Mark Elder's performance of Gerontius

+1

Elgar was a composer that I always liked, but it took me several years to love his music and I'm glad I stuck with it, because, now, he's obviously one of my favorites.

For me it was "love at the first sight". I heard Enigma Variations on radio (December 1996) and I was a changed man. I really knew Elgar is going to be my favorite composer at that moment. Only a decade later when I came to the old GMG site did I realise it actually may take other people years to really get into Elgar. My brain must be hardwired into Elgar mode!  That would explain why I struggle with so many other composers praised by others.

[Mirror Image]

For me, it was "love at the first sight". I heard Enigma Variations on radio (December 1996) and I was a changed man. I really knew Elgar is going to be my favorite composer at that moment. Only a decade later when I came to the old GMG site did I realise it actually may take other people years to really get into Elgar. My brain must be hardwired into Elgar mode!  That would explain why I struggle with so many other composers praised by others.

I had a similar experience with Ravel. It was love on first listen and I still love, and adore, his music to this day. If there's one composer's music I could take to the desert island with me, it would be Ravel's. First listen to Daphnis et Chloe and I was a man in complete captivation and awe.

[Moonfish]

Elgar: Symphony No 1                Philharmonia Orchestra/Barbirolli [rec 1962]
Elgar: Introduction and Allegro    Sinfonia of London w/ Allegri String Quartet/Barbirolli [rec 1962]

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Very enjoyable. My favorite Elgar symphony! For some reason I am really drawn to the themes that recur throughout this symphony and definitely prefer it over E2 (for now that is  ). It was also my primary symphonic encounter with Elgar it is perhaps not surprising that I am more attuned to it.  Hmm, the last movement ends quite abruptly (based on my ears). Is that my imagination?
How do you guys like E1?

The Introduction and the Allegro were new to me and very enjoyable. I sense that there is much to explore in Elgar's compositions as long as one give it time.....