Elgar's Hillside

[TheGSMoeller]

Crown of India?
Is the complete score worth it? I like the suite, and have listened to samples of the Andrew Davis recoridng with Payne's completion, but curious about the entire score.

[Karl Henning]

Yo, Greg!

As to your question, I think I have it coming in;  cannot answer at present, but shall be able to, hereafter . . . .

[TheGSMoeller]

Yo, Greg!

As to your question, I think I have it coming in;  cannot answer at present, but shall be able to, hereafter . . . .

Cool. Thanks, Karl.

[Mirror Image]

I'm baffled, John. What happened between the first post (#2639 -which reported that you really enjoyed the recording) and the second, half an hour later (#2640 - which said you didn't)?

I'm not sure how I'd feel about listening to any recording twice in a row, straight, like that. But what particularly strikes me about the second post is this comment: 'I don't think there's any subtlety in Mordkovitch's playing'. Of course whether you like it or not is one thing. Anyone can like or dislike anything. But surely one thing that Mordkovitch has in bucketloads is subtlety in this performance? It was her subtlety - the apparently infinite layering of nuance, that first alerted me to it. Forgive me for quoting myself again, from the occasion when I compared her with Hugh Bean:

Obviously something wasn't right when you listened that second time, and something clearly was turning you off. But I wonder if you're sure you've identified the cause correctly?

There's also an interesting debate to be had about whether Elgar should be thought of as 'a broken man' when he was writing these late chamber pieces. Certainly he was disillusioned (he had a tendency for disillusionment!), but he'd found this isolated cottage at Brinkwells and was finding a kind of (troubled) peace there which inspired the great chamber works. There's deep sadness to be felt within them, yes - but great beauty too: would a 'broken man' be able to write such exquisite music as these chamber pieces? (The term might be more accurately applied to him after the death of Alice, perhaps, when for a long time he became unable or unwilling to compose anything of substance.)

I suppose we're into that frequently encountered area of paradox in art whereby the work that's created presents itself as a kind of answer to disillusionment, creating a mood that hovers between elation and regret. (I'm thinking of things like Matthew Arnold's 'Dover Beach', or much of Ted Hughes's poetry.) Mordkovitch seems to take me closer to that teetering, quivering edge than any other performance that I know. I've never experienced it myself as 'emotionally overboard', but of course the details of our emotional responses are not predictable things. And I guess that the performance that shocks us with its greatness on one occasion can be simply too much to take, on another.

Alan (I hope this is your correct name), my first-listen to the Mordkovitch/Milford proved to be rather enjoyable as first-listens rarely are any indication of something being not to my taste. Sometimes I can spot something I don't like right off the bat, but, in this instance, this wasn't the case. The second listen revealed several things I didn't enjoy, which I detailed in my second post in regards to this recording. As I mentioned, I do not hear subtlety in Mordkovitch's playing but rather an abrasive approach that doesn't quite do much for me. Sometimes, as you mentioned, a performance of this kind of emotional intensity can leave someone cold and wondering why can't the performers ever just calm down. Elgar's Violin Sonata is a complicated work depicting what I believe is a weakened psychological state. For me, my comment regarding how this performance was 'emotionally overboard' is spot-on. I thought this wasn't the kind of spirit this work required. I'm not giving up on Mordkovitch/Milford, but I certainly don't share your enthusiasm for it.

[Mirror Image]

Crown of India?
Is the complete score worth it? I like the suite, and have listened to samples of the Andrew Davis recoridng with Payne's completion, but curious about the entire score.

OMG, it's Greg! Welcome back!

[TheGSMoeller]

OMG, it's Greg! Welcome back!

Hi, John. 

[Mirror Image]

Crown of India?
Is the complete score worth it? I like the suite, and have listened to samples of the Andrew Davis recoridng with Payne's completion, but curious about the entire score.

Like you, I really like the suite, but haven't heard the work in its entirety. I'll be curious to read what Karl and Peter (he ordered this A. Davis recording as well) have to say about it.

[Wanderer]

There's also an interesting debate to be had about whether Elgar should be thought of as 'a broken man' when he was writing these late chamber pieces. Certainly he was disillusioned (he had a tendency for disillusionment!), but he'd found this isolated cottage at Brinkwells and was finding a kind of (troubled) peace there which inspired the great chamber works. There's deep sadness to be felt within them, yes - but great beauty too: would a 'broken man' be able to write such exquisite music as these chamber pieces? (The term might be more accurately applied to him after the death of Alice, perhaps, when for a long time he became unable or unwilling to compose anything of substance.)

I suppose we're into that frequently encountered area of paradox in art whereby the work that's created presents itself as a kind of answer to disillusionment, creating a mood that hovers between elation and regret. (I'm thinking of things like Matthew Arnold's 'Dover Beach', or much of Ted Hughes's poetry.) Mordkovitch seems to take me closer to that teetering, quivering edge than any other performance that I know. I've never experienced it myself as 'emotionally overboard', but of course the details of our emotional responses are not predictable things. And I guess that the performance that shocks us with its greatness on one occasion can be simply too much to take, on another.

Seconded.

[André]

Like you, I really like the suite, but haven't heard the work in its entirety. I'll be curious to read what Karl and Peter (he ordered this A. Davis recording as well) have to say about it.

I think I mentioned something about that superb Chandos twofer. Not that it's a hidden treasure of major importance, but if ever a minor work of great tunefulness was given the imperial treatment, this is it. There's a couple of surefire hits here, but most of the hour+ extracts are simply spoken (muscally speaking) "in the manner of" Elgar. Disc one has all the musical bits, disc 2 (my favourite) has all the grand imperial parlance appended to the same extracts. Warmly recommended if the price is right.

[TheGSMoeller]

I think I mentioned something about that superb Chandos twofer. Not that it's a hidden treasure of major importance, but if ever a minor work of great tunefulness was given the imperial treatment, this is it. There's a couple of surefire hits here, but most of the hour+ extracts are simply spoken (muscally speaking) "in the manner of" Elgar. Disc one has all the musical bits, disc 2 (my favourite) has all the grand imperial parlance appended to the same extracts. Warmly recommended if the price is right.

Thank you, Andre, for the post. 

[Mirror Image]

I think I mentioned something about that superb Chandos twofer. Not that it's a hidden treasure of major importance, but if ever a minor work of great tunefulness was given the imperial treatment, this is it. There's a couple of surefire hits here, but most of the hour+ extracts are simply spoken (muscally speaking) "in the manner of" Elgar. Disc one has all the musical bits, disc 2 (my favourite) has all the grand imperial parlance appended to the same extracts. Warmly recommended if the price is right.

Thanks for the feedback, Andre. I'll have to check it out.

[Moonfish]

Elgar: The Spirit of England Op. 80        Cahill/Collins/Rolfe-Johnson/Howell/Scottish National Orchestra and Chorus [Currie]/Gibson

A first listen (I actually listened to it twice in a row  ): Full of spirit indeed!  I really have no reference recordings at this point. At first it seemed quite homogenous (especially the first movement), but as I kept listening the piece transformed (somehow Elgar compositions tend to do that as I keep hearing new patterns and themes). There is something about how Elgar combined the solo voices, the chorus and the orchestra that creates a dynamic soundscape. The second time I heard the first movement it had already become much more interesting. The second and third movements have a pulse and grace that is very inviting to the theme of the composition. Of course, this theme lives strongly in the first movement as Cahill's voice truly brings something luminescent into being.  Many of you have praised Cahill's voice in this recording and I can see how her cadence adds to the experience. However, I think I need to hear a few other renditions to truly appreciate her. Cahill's voice at the end of the 2nd movement transcends the borders of mortality as it is then followed by a soft chorus and the sound of the orchestra drifting away towards another realm. A truly beautiful ending of the second movement. The composition truly glows. Luminescent is the word that comes to my mind.

I can certainly see myself returning to this recording many times so thanks for the recommendation. It is beautiful!

[asin] B000000A9N[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

Glad you enjoyed it, Peter. It's certainly an incredible work and the Cahill/Gibson performance tramples them all.

[Moonfish]

Glad you enjoyed it, Peter. It's certainly an incredible work and the Cahill/Gibson performance tramples them all.

It is indeed excellent. Considering the rave all of you put forward I had high expectations, and after two listening sessions I was enchanted. Now I have to hear another rendition just for the heck of it! I think I have one in the big EMI Elgar box. 

[Moonfish]

Elgar:
Introduction and Allegro (1937)
Enigma Variations (1936)
Cello Concerto (1945)              Casals

BBC SO/Boult

This evening I felt like tuning into some historical recordings. Disc 19 in the Boult box looked promising. It was high caliber vintage Elgar/Boult with much better sound than expected throughout all three pieces. One can of course hear the sound of the 78s here and there, but it did not bother me. Standard issues with high frequency distortions etc. The Enigma Variations were enchanting, but I was surprised how much I enjoyed Casals' rendition of the Cello Concerto. I did not have any major expectations this evening. I had been hiking in the redwood forest earlier today so it was quite enjoyable to lean back and let one's mind wander into these time capsules.  Great vintage Elgar recordings!

cd 19 from:
[asin] B00C68FJ0K[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

It is indeed excellent. Considering the rave all of you put forward I had high expectations, and after two listening sessions I was enchanted. Now I have to hear another rendition just for the heck of it! I think I have one in the big EMI Elgar box. 

Great, Peter. I believe the Hickox performance of The Spirit of England is in that EMI box.

[Elgarian]

Elgar: The Spirit of England Op. 80        Cahill/Collins/Rolfe-Johnson/Howell/Scottish National Orchestra and Chorus [Currie]/Gibson

A first listen (I actually listened to it twice in a row  ): Full of spirit indeed!  I really have no reference recordings at this point. At first it seemed quite homogenous (especially the first movement), but as I kept listening the piece transformed (somehow Elgar compositions tend to do that as I keep hearing new patterns and themes). There is something about how Elgar combined the solo voices, the chorus and the orchestra that creates a dynamic soundscape. The second time I heard the first movement it had already become much more interesting. The second and third movements have a pulse and grace that is very inviting to the theme of the composition. Of course, this theme lives strongly in the first movement as Cahill's voice truly brings something luminescent into being.  Many of you have praised Cahill's voice in this recording and I can see how her cadence adds to the experience. However, I think I need to hear a few other renditions to truly appreciate her. Cahill's voice at the end of the 2nd movement transcends the borders of mortality as it is then followed by a soft chorus and the sound of the orchestra drifting away towards another realm. A truly beautiful ending of the second movement. The composition truly glows. Luminescent is the word that comes to my mind.

I can certainly see myself returning to this recording many times so thanks for the recommendation. It is beautiful!

So glad to hear that it's made its mark on you. What I've always found incomprehensible is the extent to which the work has been neglected over decades, until recently. Perhaps the title is a put-off for some ... but in truth the work isn't Nationalistic in spirit. Altough it has 'England' in the title, its inspiration is universal - about never forgetting the sacrifice made for others on our behalf - and the music is as magnificent as the subject calls for. This particular performance of it, as you know, has been my touchstone for many years.

[André]

Indeed, Spirit is very touching and grand. It's strange that Boult never recorded it.

[Moonfish]

So glad to hear that it's made its mark on you. What I've always found incomprehensible is the extent to which the work has been neglected over decades, until recently. Perhaps the title is a put-off for some ... but in truth the work isn't Nationalistic in spirit. Altough it has 'England' in the title, its inspiration is universal - about never forgetting the sacrifice made for others on our behalf - and the music is as magnificent as the subject calls for. This particular performance of it, as you know, has been my touchstone for many years.

That is a good point Elgarian (about England). Perhaps the work comes across differently to a British audience (especially at the time), while my experience reached towards the realm of humanity and spirit. I think I perhaps may never have had the encounter if it wasn't for the enthusiasm and inspiration put forward in this thread.

[Moonfish]

Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius         Palmer/Davies/Howell/London Symphony Chorus and Orchestra/Hickox

I listened to Hickox's recording of TDoG this evening. It was certainly very enjoyable, but did not have the punch and energy I experienced in Boult's performance. Very good, but not quite reaching the luminescence I expect in Elgar's work. At the same time I must admit that I became attuned to this piece with the help of Boult so perhaps I am a bit biased?  I very much appreciated the vocalists throughout (especially Palmer's voice), but in my opinion this recording joins the company of Britten's TDoG (in which I did not care much for Pears' voice), i.e. excellent but not in the desert island category. It is definitely a recording to embrace as it is in good company. I will definitely return to it as I most likely will traverse the TDoG terrain many more times in my future. Perhaps I will see things differently as the years pass....

[asin] B000000AHU[/asin]