Elgar's Hillside

[Mirror Image]

Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius         Palmer/Davies/Howell/London Symphony Chorus and Orchestra/Hickox

I listened to Hickox's recording of TDoG this evening. It was certainly very enjoyable, but did not have the punch and energy I experienced in Boult's performance. Very good, but not quite reaching the luminescence I expect in Elgar's work. At the same time I must admit that I became attuned to this piece with the help of Boult so perhaps I am a bit biased?  I very much appreciated the vocalists throughout (especially Palmer's voice), but in my opinion this recording joins the company of Britten's TDoG (in which I did not care much for Pears' voice), i.e. excellent but not in the desert island category. It is definitely a recording to embrace as it is in good company. I will definitely return to it as I most likely will traverse the TDoG terrain many more times in my future. Perhaps I will see things differently as the years pass....

[asin] B000000AHU[/asin]

This is what I expected, Peter. I'm not at all impressed by Hickox's Elgar performances. He seemed to be somewhat disconnected from the music. You've got to hear Elder's Gerontius. Let me put it to you this way, it's the only Gerontius I listen to when I want to hear the work.

[TheGSMoeller]

This is what I expected, Peter. I'm not at all impressed by Hickox's Elgar performances. He seemed to be somewhat disconnected from the music. You've got to hear Elder's Gerontius. Let me put it to you this way, it's the only Gerontius I listen to when I want to hear the work.

To me, Alice Coote's performance in Elder's Gerontius is an all-timer. You can just feel the divinity in her voice when she first enters with "My work is done"

[Mirror Image]

To me, Alice Coote's performance in Elder's Gerontius is an all-timer. You can just feel the divinity in her voice when she first enters with "My work is done"

+ 1

[Moonfish]

John & Greg! Temptations!!!!! Always another TDoG around the corner.... (for now)   

[Albion]

The new Chandos King Olaf is a winner! Banish those memories of Teresa Cahill's swallowed vowels and Brian Rayner Cook's over-emoting, this is even better than Hickox's Caractacus.

[Mirror Image]

The new Chandos King Olaf is a winner! Banish those memories of Teresa Cahill's swallowed vowels and Brian Rayner Cook's over-emoting, this is even better than Hickox's Caractacus.

How did you hear this so early? Did you buy it as a digital download?

Edit: Okay, I see it's already available in the UK.

[Mirror Image]

Listened to Tate's Symphony No. 2 performance tonight:



My first reaction was this is a strange sounding recording. The string section (very important in Elgar IMHO) is recessed or somehow not balanced enough with the other instrument sections. I thought the first movement was good enough, but not one of the better ones I've heard. The Larghetto was handled beautifully, but I thought it was a bit drawn out for my liking even though I found it quite alluring. The third movement was completely berserk, which didn't really appeal to me. I prefer more control from a conductor and the percussion was just too loud which drowned out the other instrumental sections. Accentuating certain sections is fine but when there's one section that drowns out all of the others, I have to just shake my head. The last movement couldn't have been more misshaped. It seems episodic and not organic. There was no natural flow to the music. There were some sections of this movement that just sounded completely scrappy to me and somehow cut up. The string section didn't particularly impress me here. I just found the whole movement choppy and lacking some kind of clear direction. Would I listen to this performance again any time soon? Probably not, but hearing a performance that doesn't do much for me only helps reinforce the performances that I do like and that are near and dear to me.

[Moonfish]

Listened to Tate's Symphony No. 2 performance tonight:



My first reaction was this is a strange sounding recording. The string section (very important in Elgar IMHO) is recessed or somehow not balanced enough with the other instrument sections. I thought the first movement was good enough, but not one of the better ones I've heard. The Larghetto was handled beautifully, but I thought it was a bit drawn out for my liking even though I found it quite alluring. The third movement was completely berserk, which didn't really appeal to me. I prefer more control from a conductor and the percussion was just too loud which drowned out the other instrumental sections. Accentuating certain sections is fine but when there's one section that drowns out all of the others, I have to just shake my head. The last movement couldn't have been more misshaped. It seems episodic and not organic. There was no natural flow to the music. There were some sections of this movement that just sounded completely scrappy to me and somehow cut up. The string section didn't particularly impress me here. I just found the whole movement choppy and lacking some kind of clear direction. Would I listen to this performance again any time soon? Probably not, but hearing a performance that doesn't do much for me only helps reinforce the performances that I do like and that are near and dear to me.

It is interesting how one piece of music can be performed is so many different ways, don't you think? Perhaps we get so completely attuned to our first encounters that it is difficult to accept different perspectives. I virtually rejected Maazel's Sibelius #4 (Pittsburgh SO) and I wonder if I am simply attuned to the pace of Colin Davis's RCA version?  Things feel strange compared to the template we assimilated. Am I way off here...?

[Mirror Image]

It is interesting how one piece of music can be performed is so many different ways, don't you think? Perhaps we get so completely attuned to our first encounters that it is difficult to accept different perspectives. I virtually rejected Maazel's Sibelius #4 (Pittsburgh SO) and I wonder if I am simply attuned to the pace of Colin Davis's RCA version?  Things feel strange compared to the template we assimilated. Am I way off here...?

Since Barbirolli's 2nd, was the first performance I've heard of this symphony, it has kind of stayed with me, but I have found other performances that hit me even more than his and one of them is Andrew Davis' Philharmonia recording on Signum Classics. I don't think you're off the mark at all and would agree that first impressions are often hard to shake, but, of course, what kind of listener would I be if I weren't flexible enough to listen and enjoy other interpretations? When I start finding negatives I don't like about a performance, I begin to realize how important the performances I do enjoy, and love, are to me. This is the only positive to listening to a performance I don't much care for, so, actually a negative becomes a positive.

[Moonfish]

Elgar:
Nursery Suite
Severn Suite
Suite from "Crown of India"
Coronation March Op 65

Royal Liverpool PO/Groves

First time for these pieces so I listened to them twice over a 24 hour period. Quite interesting that these pieces aren't more popular?  The Nursery Suite was light and pleasant. The Severn Suite did not do much for me (I need to hear it again separately from the rest of these works). The "Crown of India" Suite is enchanting in its oscillation between grace and pompous antics! A surprising delight! The theme and aura of the Coronation March was definitely very catching in its unfolding. My overall impressions of these were very positive!

What do you Elgarians think of these works?

[71 dB]

The Severn Suite did not do much for me (I need to hear it again separately from the rest of these works).

What do you Elgarians think of these works?

I like The Severn Suite quite a lot, especially the fugue is charming. I have a pretty "crappy" version for brass orchestra and wish to have a better one.

Also have orchestral (Groves, Hickox) and for organ (Butt).

[Mirror Image]

Elgar:
Nursery Suite
Severn Suite
Suite from "Crown of India"
Coronation March Op 65

Royal Liverpool PO/Groves

First time for these pieces so I listened to them twice over a 24 hour period. Quite interesting that these pieces aren't more popular?  The Nursery Suite was light and pleasant. The Severn Suite did not do much for me (I need to hear it again separately from the rest of these works). The "Crown of India" Suite is enchanting in its oscillation between grace and pompous antics! A surprising delight! The theme and aura of the Coronation March was definitely very catching in its unfolding. My overall impressions of these were very positive!

What do you Elgarians think of these works?

I love all of those works. The Severn Suite is a very cool work and surprisingly Hickox's performance is highly recommendable. Yes, Crown of India is quite delightful as well. Nursery Suite is one of my favorites of Elgar's light music (I'm also a sucker for The Wand of Youth Suites I & II). Have you heard the Starlight Express Suite, Peter? This is also right up your alley since you enjoyed these other lighter works.

[jfdrex]

Listened to Tate's Symphony No. 2 performance tonight:



My first reaction was this is a strange sounding recording. The string section (very important in Elgar IMHO) is recessed or somehow not balanced enough with the other instrument sections. I thought the first movement was good enough, but not one of the better ones I've heard. The Larghetto was handled beautifully, but I thought it was a bit drawn out for my liking even though I found it quite alluring. The third movement was completely berserk, which didn't really appeal to me. I prefer more control from a conductor and the percussion was just too loud which drowned out the other instrumental sections. Accentuating certain sections is fine but when there's one section that drowns out all of the others, I have to just shake my head. The last movement couldn't have been more misshaped. It seems episodic and not organic. There was no natural flow to the music. There were some sections of this movement that just sounded completely scrappy to me and somehow cut up. The string section didn't particularly impress me here. I just found the whole movement choppy and lacking some kind of clear direction. Would I listen to this performance again any time soon? Probably not, but hearing a performance that doesn't do much for me only helps reinforce the performances that I do like and that are near and dear to me.

John, thanks for sharing your reactions to this.  It's one of the few recordings of Elgar 2nd Symphony (and of the 1st) I haven't heard; it's been on my watch list for some time, but I've always held off purchasing it because of negative reviews I've read elsewhere.  I like Tate's way with Mozart and Haydn generally, but it seems that he just isn't well attuned to Elgar's idiom.

Your comments about Tate's Elgar remind me of my reaction to Bryden Thomson's recordings of the 1st & 2nd.  I used to listen to them quite often, hoping that "this time" I would get what Thomson was doing--but the long-hoped-for revelation never came.  As I recall, his tempi are uniformly sloooowww and plodding throughout, without much in the way of phrase-shaping (of which Barbirolli is a master), and the Chandos acoustics basically turn everything into a big boomy wash of sound.  The two reviewers on Amazon, however, are full of praise, so what do I know?

[asin]B0007SK9ME[/asin]

The two symphonies are also available separately (albeit without Froissart and The Sanguin Fan):

[asin]B000000AE7[/asin]

[asin]B000000AE8[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

John, thanks for sharing your reactions to this.  It's one of the few recordings of Elgar 2nd Symphony (and of the 1st) I haven't heard; it's been on my watch list for some time, but I've always held off purchasing it because of negative reviews I've read elsewhere.  I like Tate's way with Mozart and Haydn generally, but it seems that he just isn't well attuned to Elgar's idiom.

Your comments about Tate's Elgar remind me of my reaction to Bryden Thomson's recordings of the 1st & 2nd.  I used to listen to them quite often, hoping that "this time" I would get what Thomson was doing--but the long-hoped-for revelation never came.  As I recall, his tempi are uniformly sloooowww and plodding throughout, without much in the way of phrase-shaping (of which Barbirolli is a master), and the Chandos acoustics basically turn everything into a big boomy wash of sound.  The two reviewers on Amazon, however, are full of praise, so what do I know?

[asin]B0007SK9ME[/asin]

The two symphonies are also available separately (albeit without Froissart and The Sanguin Fan):

[asin]B000000AE7[/asin]

[asin]B000000AE8[/asin]

Think of this as me 'taking one for the team.' But seriously, I just don't see what the positives are with Tate's Elgar. He certainly lacks the feel I'm accustomed to hearing in Elgar interpretations. I can deal with slower tempi as long as there's a swagger and a bounce to the phrasing, which unfortunately Tate falls short of IMHO. As for Thomson, it's been years since I've listened to any of his Elgar. I don't recall being particularly impressed either. The same goes for Sinopoli.

[71 dB]

Tate, Thomson,... 

Nobody here seems to care about Elgar's Symphonies on Naxos. For me the first performances I heard of 1 and 2 were these Naxos discs in 1997 and after hearing many other performances I still think they are among the best. Good sound quality, clear balanced performances that bring out what feels right and Elgarian imo. Naxos could have released more Elgar they have, but what they have put out is pretty good imo.

[asin]B00002605G[/asin]

[asin]B00002605I[/asin]

[asin]B00004RC80[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

Tate, Thomson,... 

Nobody here seems to care about Elgar's Symphonies on Naxos. For me the first performances I heard of 1 and 2 were these Naxos discs in 1997 and after hearing many other performances I still think they are among the best. Good sound quality, clear balanced performances that bring out what feels right and Elgarian imo. Naxos could have released more Elgar they have, but what they have put out is pretty good imo.

[asin]B00002605G[/asin]

[asin]B00002605I[/asin]

[asin]B00004RC80[/asin]

George Hurst was a decent conductor as was Downes, but neither could touch Barbirolli or Boult in Elgar IMHO. 'Nuff said.

[71 dB]

George Hurst was a decent conductor as was Downes, but neither could touch Barbirolli or Boult in Elgar IMHO. 'Nuff said.

So what? In my opinion Elgar's musical structures are clearer in the Naxos discs than in the old Barbirolli / Boult performances. Must be the digital technology... ...Tate is hardly a Barbirolli either. I mean people talk about EVERY Elgar performance in the history, except if it's on Naxos! I never see any Naxos release discussed here, but if it's EMI, any loser conductor gets mentioned. What gives?

[Mirror Image]

So what? In my opinion Elgar's musical structures are clearer in the Naxos discs than in the old Barbirolli / Boult performances. Must be the digital technology... ...Tate is hardly a Barbirolli either. I mean people talk about EVERY Elgar performance in the history, except if it's on Naxos! I never see any Naxos release discussed here, but if it's EMI, any loser conductor gets mentioned. What gives?

Sounds like you're getting your panties in a wad over nothing here, 71 dB. Sounds like you can't deal with a differing opinion. Naxos has some good recordings, but to completely ignore the rich history of Elgar recordings that have appeared years before those Naxos recording seems strange on your part.

For the record, I never claimed Tate to be a Barbirolli. Stop putting words into my mouth.

[71 dB]

Sounds like you're getting your panties in a wad over nothing here, 71 dB. Sounds like you can't deal with a differing opinion. Naxos has some good recordings, but to completely ignore the rich history of Elgar recordings that have appeared years before those Naxos recording seems strange on your part.

For the record, I never claimed Tate to be a Barbirolli. Stop putting words into my mouth.

It's not about differing opinions. It's about people behaving as if the Naxos performances didn't exist. Very often it happens that people are talking about performances I don't have and I haven't heard while ignoring all those performances I do have and know. It makes me feel an outsider. I always feel an outsider everywhere I go. It is really frustrating when nobody has your frequency. I try to feel the frequency on Elgar threat but I don't. I try to feel the frequency on Tangerine Dream forum but I don't. There is always more differences than similarities with other people. I belong nowhere. It is really hard. Currently I am laid off from work. I hate my job. I feel everything goes wrong despite of my efforts. My hero Edgar Froese died. So, maybe my rant is venting of my frustation. Sorry.

[Moonfish]

So what? In my opinion Elgar's musical structures are clearer in the Naxos discs than in the old Barbirolli / Boult performances. Must be the digital technology... ...Tate is hardly a Barbirolli either. I mean people talk about EVERY Elgar performance in the history, except if it's on Naxos! I never see any Naxos release discussed here, but if it's EMI, any loser conductor gets mentioned. What gives?

I haven't heard these, but I have many other Naxos releases which I enjoy immensely. Most of all Robert Barto's recordings of Weiss (stellar indeed)!  as well as a number of other recordings (mostly baroque [Marias, St Columbine]). Most likely I will pick up #1 and #2 one day, although I suspect that I won't search them out. Naxos reminds me a bit of CPO in their efforts to record repertoire, and perhaps that is why I admire the label. They certainly used to be much cheaper in the past....
I actually recently got the 3rd symphony you mentioned in your post but I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.