Meltdown

[BachQ]

A.I.G. Sues U.S. for Return of $306 Million in Tax Payments

lol! You could hardly make it up

AIG has become one of the most despised companies in history:

Guardian -- AIG warns staff to travel in pairs after death threats over bonuses. In a leaked company-wide memo, AIG's corporate security team this week warned AIG workers that their lives are at risk and urged them to "avoid wearing any AIG apparel (bags, shirts, umbrellas etc) with the company insignia [and] at night, when possible, travel in pairs and always park in well-lit areas."

You could hardly make it up

No kidding.  You can't make this stuff up.   

[Coopmv]

AIG has become one of the most despised companies in history:

Guardian -- AIG warns staff to travel in pairs after death threats over bonuses. In a leaked company-wide memo, AIG's corporate security team this week warned AIG workers that their lives are at risk and urged them to "avoid wearing any AIG apparel (bags, shirts, umbrellas etc) with the company insignia [and] at night, when possible, travel in pairs and always park in well-lit areas."

No kidding.  You can't make this stuff up.   

If only because AIG has received the most bailout money to date.  Merrill Lynch paid out $1.3B worth of bonus in December and 2 days later announced a $15B 4Q oss.  I have not kept track of how much bailout money Merrill and its current corporate parents BOA have received in connection with the Merrill's toxic assets.  But north of $50B is a pretty conservative estimate ...

[BachQ]

We are going down that path, I am afraid this is just a matter of time.  How will the national interests be aligned?  I doubt it will be a replay of the two World Wars in terms of who were whose allies.  In all likelihood, it will be the western industrialized nations plus Japan against the rest.

Not that Pravda has any credibility in such matters, but according to several economists interviewed by Pravda, the USA has only two options to solve its catastrophic national debt:  (1) default on the debt; or (2) launch a war.

Neither option is particularly attractive.  And, technically, there are two additional options: (3) pay down the debt through taxation and spending cuts; or (4) hyper-inflate the currency (Zimbabwe).

[Coopmv]

Not that Pravda has any credibility in such matters, but according to several economists interviewed by Pravda, the USA has only two options to solve its catastrophic national debt:  (1) default on the debt; or (2) launch a war.

Neither option is particularly attractive.  And, technically, there are two additional options: (3) pay down the debt through taxation and spending cuts; or (4) hyper-inflate the currency (Zimbabwe).

At end of 2006, the total US retirement savings surpassed $16T.  Granted that number has fallen back due to the terrible stock market returns in 2008, but new money has continued to flow in.  To think that the US as a whole cannot fund its deficits is total non-sense.  The private sector has to be convinced that the federal government has a game plan to reduce spending and rein in future deficits, then it will invest in more US debts.  However, if US retirement savings begins to repatriate its investment money from overseas, then most Asian countries better watch out, their stock markets could collapse big-time ...

http://www.ici.org/stats/mf/fm-v16n3.pdf

[ezodisy]

However, if US retirement savings begins to repatriate its investment money from overseas, then most Asian countries better watch out, their stock markets could collapse big-time ...

lol! Keep dreaming. The Nikkei is already way, way below where it stood  in 1989, it's not going much lower, and neither will the rest. I think you are going to have a big shock in the next few years as you seem to totally disbelieve the current problems facing the US.

[Coopmv]

lol! Keep dreaming. The Nikkei is already way, way below where it stood  in 1989, it's not going much lower, and neither will the rest. I think you are going to have a big shock in the next few years as you seem to totally disbelieve the current problems facing the US.

Did you read that link I attached in my previous post?   That $16T retirement savings money is in private hands and has nothing to do with Uncle Sam and it is no US government propaganda. 

When the US and Japan go down, your country will be in complete shambles and you may be begging in the street just like everyone else.  If you think your future is secure, you live in fantasy land.

[ezodisy]

No I don't have time to read it, plus I most likely wouldn't understand most of it. Obviously the UK will go down with the US. They'll both tank. We're all stuffed unfortunately, like the $. It'll take several years, maybe a decade, maybe two, for a new order of power with the US and UK decidedly far behind the super powers.

[Coopmv]

No I don't have time to read it, plus I most likely wouldn't understand most of it. Obviously the UK will go down with the US. They'll both tank. We're all stuffed unfortunately, like the $. It'll take several years, maybe a decade, maybe two, for a new order of power with the US and UK decidedly far behind the super powers.

I am surprised to see this level of humility from you, which is like finding water in the Sahara.  I have heard from other forum members that you enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguments.  I do not back down like many others and arguments do not faze me.  It is pure idiocy to think Asia can hold up on its own when its export markets like the US and Europe mainly shut down. 

Show me some generally accepted views and not what you want people to believe, ezodisy.   Marc Faber and Jim Rogers, give me a break.  I heard so often back in the 80's that Japan would have dominated the world by now, has it happened?  Which company makes the processor that powers your computer?  It clearly was not made by any company in your country, mind you?   

I love it when those geniuses at sovereign fund lost billions of dollars after they had sunk their taxpayer money into that rathole called Merrill Lynch.  LOL

[ezodisy]

I have heard from other forum members that you enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguments. 

Sometimes you're a wee bit thick mate.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter, does it? It'll happen how it happens. My opinion is that in the next 30 years the world will be very different from how we know it now. People in the US will most likely have the same comfortable lifestyle as now. I mean aside from owning a car, or several cars, and taking a one week annual vacation in the next state over, people in the US are satisfied with pretty much nothing already, and that won't change anytime soon. I'd say it's more in a macroeconomic way with national and governmental power that a big shift will take place, and unfortunately it'll probably come about from another world war, this time with our allies losing in some way, I'd suspect. Hopefully that doesn't happen and we can just continue to witness the western world shoot itself in the foot.

I don't know what you mean by "generally accepted views". The "generally accepted views" of the people you listen to were telling you to keep buying equities and real estate in 2007. lol! You're going to have to listen to different voices if you want to know what's happening. Why are you so against the people who correctly predicted this? Unfortunately people who listen and believe in "generally accepted views" are always behind the curve, and always get screwed. But at least they all get screwed together, in a warm comfy herd.

[Coopmv]

Sometimes you're a wee bit thick mate.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter, does it? It'll happen how it happens. My opinion is that in the next 30 years the world will be very different from how we know it now. People in the US will most likely have the same comfortable lifestyle as now. I mean aside from owning a car, or several cars, and taking a one week annual vacation in the next state over, people in the US are satisfied with pretty much nothing already, and that won't change anytime soon. I'd say it's more in a macroeconomic way with national and governmental power that a big shift will take place, and unfortunately it'll probably come about from another world war, this time with our allies losing in some way, I'd suspect. Hopefully that doesn't happen and we can just continue to witness the western world shoot itself in the foot.

I don't know what you mean by "generally accepted views". The "generally accepted views" of the people you listen to were telling you to keep buying equities and real estate in 2007. lol! You're going to have to listen to different voices if you want to know what's happening. Why are you so against the people who correctly predicted this? Unfortunately people who listen and believe in "generally accepted views" are always behind the curve, and always get screwed. But at least they all get screwed together, in a warm comfy herd.

Why should I listen to you anymore than I do with all the other talking heads such as Faber and Rogers?  Show me your credentials.  If your credentials are that impressive, you will have no time to hang out in this forum.  End of the story.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Those of you who are talking about WAR 

Is this just a vague fear on your part, or have you thought about how it might actually play out?

[ezodisy]

Why should I listen to you anymore than I do with all the other talking heads such as Faber and Rogers?  Show me your credentials.  If your credentials are that impressive, you will have no time to hang out in this forum.  End of the story.

You don't have to listen to anyone Coop. Just be normal like everybody else.

Those of you who are talking about WAR 

Is this just a vague fear on your part, or have you thought about how it might actually play out?

I don't know, Faber has been talking about war as something quite likely and both Faber and Rogers talk about civil unrest. I really hope that that doesn't happen

[BachQ]

Eurozone industrial output plunged by 3.5% in January compared with the previous month, the biggest decline since records began in 1990, and dropped 17.3% from 2008 -- BBC (20 mar 09):"The eurozone industrial production data for January is breathtakingly awful, adding to the evidence that manufacturing activity has fallen off a mountain rather than a mere cliff," said Howard Archer at Global Insight.

[BachQ]

Rolling Stone: "It's over — we're officially, royally f*cked. no empire can survive being rendered a permanent laughingstock, which is what happened as of a few weeks ago, when the buffoons who have been running things in this country finally went one step too far. It happened when Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was forced to admit that he was once again going to have to stuff billions of taxpayer dollars into a dying insurance giant called AIG, itself a profound symbol of our national decline — a corporation that got rich insuring the concrete and steel of American industry in the country's heyday, only to destroy itself chasing phantom fortunes at the Wall Street card tables, like a dissolute nobleman gambling away the family estate in the waning days of the British Empire."

(continued [very long, but very good])

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[BachQ]

German Arsonists Torch Berlin Porsches, BMWs on Economic Woe -- Bloomberg -- According to Prof. Margit Mayer of Berlin's Free University, the worst recession since World War II is fueling anger among youths across Europe who "perceive their future as rather precarious. Whether you look at the Berlin events or these anarchist groups in other European cities and countries, they are all making reference to the deepening economic crisis and how the various governments are dealing with them.  [Some groups are] very quick to attack whoever they can make out as responsible for having robbed them of decent life prospects."

[BachQ]

"The worst is yet to come," according to Howard Davidowitz, chairman of Davidowitz & Associates, who believes American's standard of living is undergoing a "permanent change" - and not for the better as a result of:

    * An $8 trillion negative wealth effect from declining home values.
    * A $10 trillion negative wealth effect from weakened capital markets.
    * A $14 trillion consumer debt load amid "exploding unemployment", leading to "exploding bankruptcies.

[Coopmv]

You don't have to listen to anyone Coop. Just be normal like everybody else.

I don't know, Faber has been talking about war as something quite likely and both Faber and Rogers talk about civil unrest. I really hope that that doesn't happen

Faber is just the talking head making his wild speculation.  There is always a possibility for war.

ezodisy, You have been the one that is proselytizing.  I take most opinions with a grain of salt.  Like I said, show me your credentials. 

[nut-job]

Wealth is defined by economic capacity, and the capability of the world to produce goods and services is exactly the same as it was before the recent crisis.  The problem is that the flow of currency through the financial system has suffered a disruption, which is preventing goods and services from being transferred from producers to consumers.  The crisis was caused by excesses and imbalances in some sectors of the financial and economic systems.  As long as the US government can pay the electric bill for the printing presses they use to print more money, the national debt will not be a major problem.  The US government has had a lot more debt than it does now in the past.  

[Coopmv]

Rolling Stone: "It's over — we're officially, royally f*cked. no empire can survive being rendered a permanent laughingstock, which is what happened as of a few weeks ago, when the buffoons who have been running things in this country finally went one step too far. It happened when Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was forced to admit that he was once again going to have to stuff billions of taxpayer dollars into a dying insurance giant called AIG, itself a profound symbol of our national decline — a corporation that got rich insuring the concrete and steel of American industry in the country's heyday, only to destroy itself chasing phantom fortunes at the Wall Street card tables, like a dissolute nobleman gambling away the family estate in the waning days of the British Empire."

(continued [very long, but very good])

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The US government should have taken over most of the liabilities of AIG and invite bidders for its assets and have winners of various AIG's assets share some percentage of the liabilities.  There are no reasons to keep AIG in one piece.  It is nothing but a bottomless pit ... 

Lets go back to the dark ages when ones with the strongest military survived. 

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Rolling Stone: "It's over — we're officially, royally f*cked. no empire can survive being rendered a permanent laughingstock, which is what happened as of a few weeks ago, when the buffoons who have been running things in this country finally went one step too far. etc."

(continued [very long, but very good])

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Ah, the inimitable Matt Taibbi! Formerly of Moscow's notorious alternative paper, the eXile - where he did such unforgettable things as plaster the NY Times' correspondent in the face with a pie made of horse sperm...

We're gonna need stunts like that to keep us laughing in the next few years