Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 347646 times)

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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #860 on: June 22, 2014, 02:54:18 PM »
Oh crap, I almost wish you hadn't alerted me to this - especially since I don't have it!  :)
Well it will probably surface on Youtube one of these days.

Offline Rex

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #861 on: June 22, 2014, 03:30:44 PM »
There's a complete recording of Benjamin Kobler playing Stockhausen's Natural Durations online here:

http://classical-music-online.net/en/production/43846

The sound is very good. Is it the same as the one in the Stockhausen complete edition? That one seems to have several pianists.


I've just had a listen to the beginning of that . It is the same as the Stockhausen edition cd, and that section is actually played by Frank Gutschmidt. The third pianist is Antonio Pérez Abellán.

Offline Rex

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #862 on: June 22, 2014, 03:43:03 PM »
I've mentioned this before .. and I would love to find it, but Stockhausen's favorite recording of MANTRA was one he supervised himself and it was performed by Sepp Grotenhuis, Ellen Corver & Jan Panis. KS loved it so much that he wanted to obtain the rights to it and release it on his own label.



Ellen Corver, Sepp Grotenhuis, Hans Tutschku (sound engineers: Bert Kraaijpoel, Jan Panis; producer: Maarten Hartveldt; digital editing: Chapel Studio Tilburg [Jan Panis, Hans Tutschku, Maarten Hartveldt]) – [1995], Stockhausen: Mantra, Supervised by Karlheinz Stockhausen TMD 950601. This recording received an Edison Classical Award in 1996.


Hmmm . . . I wasn't aware of that recording - and I would love to hear it too.

Like you Uatu I like the Kontarsky Bros and the Grau-Schumacher duo very much. I also very much enjoy the recording on Naxos by Xenia Pestova and Pascal Meyer, their performance is very beautiful.

Offline Rex

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #863 on: June 22, 2014, 03:58:28 PM »
Has anyone here heard Falkner's recorded set of Natural Durations?




I haven't heard that recording - but you can hear samples of it here:
http://www.sounds-venlo.nl/udo-falkner-piano/stockhausen-natural-durations-3rd_7533029.html?Listen=3188

From first listening I prefer the Stockhausen Verlag issue - but that might be a very unfair judgement comparing a no doubt low quality internet sample with the clarity of the cd.

It is interesting to note that the 'natural durations' differ in some cases quite a lot between the recordings, as you would naturally expect.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #864 on: June 23, 2014, 08:50:04 AM »
Wow, I actually like the later ones better.  I think I just get impatient for those notes to die out;)



I think I agree with you about this. It's cool music.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #865 on: June 25, 2014, 11:18:43 AM »
The 1st hour is an amazing piece of rhythm & counterpoint, and the timbral variety is subtle but astonishing. A tour de force for synth players.

Yes, I agree.

It's like some "modern" performances of baroque counterpoint, where the voices are staggered, each voice has its own pace and rubato - things are played sometimes slightly out of synch. I used the scare quotes because maybe this is the way the music was played in the 17th century. Anyway, anyone who knows musicians like Bradley Brookshire will maybe hear what I mean. Harnoncourt too.

Also Carter quartet 4.

There's a marvelous ecstatic moment when all the voices almost do come together and someone sings Christus.

The only reservation I have is a general one about Stockhausen, at least in Licht and after - that's it's a bit too melodic sounding. It's lost the spiky modernity of the pieces from the 1950s, the klavierstucke. Same "problem" with Natural Durations. Of course, some people may prefer music like this.

Anyway this Himmelfahrt is outstanding music and thanks for mentioning it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:57:18 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #866 on: June 25, 2014, 12:35:57 PM »
OK the beast that is called MANTRA has now been put to bed!

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/06/opus-32-mantra.html

The funny thing is, that after I learned all about the formulas and how they were permutated, it actually was not that helpful in enjoying the music more....interesting stuff though nonetheless, like learning how my iPod creates a "shuffle" playlist  :).

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #867 on: June 25, 2014, 12:43:25 PM »
The only reservation I have is a general one about Stockhausen, at least in Licht and after - that's it's a bit too melodic sounding. It's lost the spiky modernity of the pieces from the 1950s, the klavierstucke. Same "problem" with Natural Durations. Of course, some people may prefer music like this.

I used to feel the EXACT same way, stuff like KONTRAPUNKTE, KONTAKTE, GRUPPEN were all great, and everything after SIRIUS was kinda too "tonal" and lightweight.  But after really listening to the LICHT stuff repeatedly, I've really begun to appreciate them a hell of a lot more.  Also some pieces like Der Kinderfanger and ORCHESTRE-FINALISTEN I think are as raw and bizarre as the early pieces. 

The only really big issue for his recent stuff (as I've mentioned before) is that the timbres he uses from SIRIUS on are not very much to my liking, like he's stopped paying attention to all the other electronics composers since the 70s and just builds on his own stuff.  The problem is that it sounds (to me) kind of like he's stuck in a time warp).  But at the same time I'm getting used to it so it doesn't actually bother me as much as before.  But there are definitely some more interesting electro-acoustic records out there IMHO.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #868 on: June 25, 2014, 12:45:08 PM »
Stockhausen demonstrating how to fight a Dragon (rehearsal for Drachenkampf)

Offline EigenUser

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #869 on: June 26, 2014, 02:05:23 AM »
OK the beast that is called MANTRA has now been put to bed!

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/06/opus-32-mantra.html

The funny thing is, that after I learned all about the formulas and how they were permutated, it actually was not that helpful in enjoying the music more....interesting stuff though nonetheless, like learning how my iPod creates a "shuffle" playlist  :).

Thank you so much! I'll check this out this afternoon.

I remember reading somewhere a while ago that Stockhausen did an analysis of Bartok's (awesome) "Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion".
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #870 on: June 26, 2014, 11:39:38 AM »
With Mantra he consciously wanted melody to be all pervasive .. and his music became more lyrical and singable .. especially wanted & needed for the operas.

Though there are plenty of non lyrical operas - ones based on recitative or declamation. I listened today to Freude from Klang  - for two harps and voices. I feel very enthusiastic about Stockhausen at the moment - the sheer fecundity of exciting ideas in his music is astonishing.

In Freude there's a really interesting balance between sweetness and discord. It's brilliant in that respect.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:43:06 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #871 on: July 07, 2014, 07:09:12 AM »
My article/analysis/appreciation of INORI for Orchestra and Mimes is completed:

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/07/opus-38-inori.html


A great work (INORI, not my article  ;) ), which at first seems a bit dull in the first half, but if one listens VERY CAREFULLY with headphones, there's actually constant activity throughout - and some pretty wacky moments in the latter half, such as when the Prayer soloist "bounces" off a springboard 3 times before shouting HU!.  I have no idea what the bouncing is supposed to represent actually....

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #872 on: July 07, 2014, 10:56:11 AM »
There was a performance of this at the BBC a few years back.  Sadly I missed it.  I wonder how the sound was?  The only problem I have with the Edition is that the RHYTHMIC section chromatic tempo pulsations are a bit unclear.  If you don't listen carefully it just sounds like a big drone, because the accents are so buried. 

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #873 on: July 09, 2014, 08:08:05 AM »
After all the detailed listening required for INORI, it was nice to relax and bang out this one:

Opus 46 - IN FREUNDSCHAFT

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/07/opus-46-in-freundschaft.html

With so many versions out there, I wonder why Stockhausen never did one for guitar?  I may give it a shot...

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #874 on: July 10, 2014, 04:48:40 AM »
I don't have the new Editions, but the samples do sound great!  I'll get around to them eventually I'm sure. 

I wonder what else is in the works.  There are many unreleased works (or unrecorded). Some expanded extracts from Michael's Journey, as well as a Flute and multiple piano version of Kathinkas Gesang.  Sadly there are no plans to record the Japanese version of Der Jahreslauf in Tokyo coming up. 

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #875 on: July 11, 2014, 07:21:54 AM »
Yeah, Kathinka said no plans to record/release Gagaku Jahreslauf.  If only I was able to go and record it....  It should be a simple thing to do, but perhaps there are rights issues with the Japanese. 

Kathinka also mentioned that K. Gesang w. pianos will come out next year possibly, so maybe between you and I asking about it they changed their mind.  I did ask about the Lucifer Dances and there are no plans for those unfortunately it seems. 

The label is really fantastic - expensive! - but they really try to make everything available, even electronics-only rehearsal CDs.  I can't think of any other composer whose works are so well served by a label.  I've been looking through the scores at the library and they are packed with color photos.  The hardbound ones are pretty gorgeous and huge. 

Now if only the Euro would sink and the dollar would rise, I would grab up plenty more!

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #876 on: July 11, 2014, 04:49:46 PM »
Question percolating in my mind for a while
Why did KHS release so much of his work in what seems a large and varied number of alternate arrangements? 
Was he experimenting with instrumental sounds?  Was he simply trying to maximize potential performances?
A totally different reason?
Combination of any of the above?

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #877 on: July 11, 2014, 05:52:04 PM »
I basically asked Kathinka about that version before Editions 101-104 & 54 (Michaelion) were released. Other than perhaps some other Licht fractals, other incarnations of Tierkreis raw material,   ..  I can think of also.. Fresco. A super long (something like 4 hours) background ambient thing for 4 orchestra groups. Herbstmusik  .. ALPHABET for Liège, Plus-Minus, small orchestra version of INORI; Symphony Orchestra version of Luciferz Tanz .. the rest of "For Times to Come", or that AMOUR piece for cello.

I thought about asking about Fresco, but I really think that would be hard to experience just from a CD, since there's the "happening" aspect of that one.  Also the length...
Herbstmusik doesn't have all that much instrumental playing I think except for the last part and that's already out.  I guess it would end up like Music in the Belly, lots of shuffling about noises?
I also requested Amour for cello and got no answer about that one. 
For Times to Come - frankly I'm not very confident that versions of those could make me happy without Stockhausen actually being at the helm.  I just looked at the "score" for that one yesterday and there's just too much room for tomfoolery there.  Same with Plus Minus...the Ives Ensemble has a recording of that and it does nothing for me.

Hmmm, what else....actually the things I'm most looking forward to are 2 projects already in the works - English translations of the Texts on Music and a multicamera DVD of the La Scala Montag aus LICHT.

Offline Uatu

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #878 on: July 11, 2014, 06:05:38 PM »
Question percolating in my mind for a while
Why did KHS release so much of his work in what seems a large and varied number of alternate arrangements? 
Was he experimenting with instrumental sounds?  Was he simply trying to maximize potential performances?
A totally different reason?
Combination of any of the above?

That's a good topic for discussion.  My feeling is that there are different reasons for different pieces. 

For the version of Kathinkas Gesang for electronics, I bet it was mainly because he got time at IRCAM and wanted to play around.  Also K's Gesang is a hell of alot more interesting to watch than just 6 speakers in a room.  I think he added soloists to Kontakte and Hymnen partially for that reason also. 

For Michael's Journey I feel like he wrote a reduced version so that he could tour with it without actually engaging a full orchestra. 
In Freundschaft has lots of arrangements because people asked him to do them and went to him to work them out in person.

Ever since he made LICHT an exclusive project for 27 years, I think he needed to have some concert-ready works for give out, so he made every part of LICHT modular.  So each opera has several reduced forms for when he was invited to give a concert with his smaller groups - ie - Markus, Suzanne and Kathinka.  The good part is that many of these "road-ready" reworks have expanded sections and are not just rearrangements.     Right Eyebrow dance is pretty cool as a winds concerto in that just 1 clarinet and 1 bass clarinet basically plays every part of Lucifers Dance.  And Signals to Invasion has 1 trombone playing something like 6 parts all by himself.  If he had lived I would hope he would have worked out a version of Gruppen for solo guitar  8)

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #879 on: July 11, 2014, 08:54:51 PM »
I'd like to hear the version of Kontakte without instruments - is the only recording not on LP the one from Stockhausen Verlag?
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