Stockhausen's Spaceship

[Uatu]

Probably so on the immediate thought,  but it did lead me to wonder if there was more significant influence by MD on KS.

Hey, I was looking for something else on Jstor but found this:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/742474?sid=21104909747841&uid=3739256&uid=2486846853&uid=2&uid=2129&uid=2486846863&uid=3&uid=3739832&uid=60&uid=70&uid=2134

24 pages on KS and Miles' relationship.  My Jstor bookshelf is full so I can't read this right now, but if you register you should be able to read it (3 free articles every 2 weeks!)

If you pull the trigger on this let me know if it's worth it

[Uatu]

Stockhausen's very first electronic works with tape, musique concrete and sine wave generators. 
Still holds up today - sounds like a track off Nine Inch Nails' "Ghosts".

STUDIE I, STUDIE II (and ETUDE)

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/12/opus-3-studie-i-studie-ii-and-etude.html

[Uatu]

yes!

[kishnevi]

Hey, I was looking for something else on Jstor but found this:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/742474?sid=21104909747841&uid=3739256&uid=2486846853&uid=2&uid=2129&uid=2486846863&uid=3&uid=3739832&uid=60&uid=70&uid=2134

24 pages on KS and Miles' relationship.  My Jstor bookshelf is full so I can't read this right now, but if you register you should be able to read it (3 free articles every 2 weeks!)

If you pull the trigger on this let me know if it's worth it

I registered but it only let me read the first page.  I am not paying $36 for it.  I will try again tomorrow.

[torut]

Hey, I was looking for something else on Jstor but found this:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/742474?sid=21104909747841&uid=3739256&uid=2486846853&uid=2&uid=2129&uid=2486846863&uid=3&uid=3739832&uid=60&uid=70&uid=2134

24 pages on KS and Miles' relationship.  My Jstor bookshelf is full so I can't read this right now, but if you register you should be able to read it (3 free articles every 2 weeks!)

If you pull the trigger on this let me know if it's worth it

Thanks for this, I downloaded the paper from scribd.com. Although it was an interesting read, a bit disappointing in regards to the influence of Miles on Stockhausen. The author asserted "Stockhausen and Davis inspired each other," but there is no direct citation of Stockhausen mentioning Miles. Most of the paper describes the resemblance between the music of Stockhausen and that of Miles, but I sometimes felt it was a little farfetched.
I wonder if the influence was chiefly brought by Markus Stockhausen, who admitted Miles's influence on him, and whether KS would have given the important role to the trumpet if his son did not play the instrument. Bergstein wrote "Stockhausen's use of electric trumpet and wah-wah pedal stems from Miles Davis," but could it be Markus's idea?
Nevertheless, it was worth reading for me, but if you are looking for a solid evidence of the influence of Miles on Stockhausen, I am not sure if you will be satisfied.
(I was also expecting further clue about the recording by Miles and Stockhausen, but it is just a reference to Jack Chambers's book, which is thought to be dubious.)

I registered but it only let me read the first page.  I am not paying $36 for it.  I will try again tomorrow.

It is also available from https://www.scribd.com/. It has one-day access option or monthly subscription for $8.99 that allows you to download the pdf of the paper (and other documents).
[EDIT] link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/119341012/742474Barry-Bergstein-Miles-stockhausen

[Uatu]

Jeffrey, that's weird that Jstor didn't work.  Remember to log back in after you register and then add the item to your shelf.  Then you can read it.  Also you can read everything in that issue, not just that one article. 

Torut, thanks for the info on Scribd, I didn't know about the 1-day option, will have to give that a try sometime.

[kishnevi]

Jeffrey, that's weird that Jstor didn't work.  Remember to log back in after you register and then add the item to your shelf.  Then you can read it.  Also you can read everything in that issue, not just that one article. 

Okay, did not know about the virtual shelf.

[torut]

The article itself is dubious .. i seriously doubt KS would have found much to like in Miles's trend-oriented music .. and in fact said so. KS was wiring, processing/treating and transmitting/amplifying instruments, ensembles, orchestras etc. of all kinds prior to Miles, and in a forensic, highly conscious way. KS was so pioneering and exhaustive in the embrace of electronic media  .. well before jazz decided to flirt with "pop instruments" .. and "studio as instrument" recording techniques .. (again, most of which came from KS's vocab).

And KS's use of mutes & values on the trumpet far surpass anything Miles (and his fairly simplistic piss poor technique) was dicking around with. Just listen to KS's incredible Upper-Lip-Dance .. whoa damn, that is some major trumpet solo stuff, and so subtle, nuanced. I don't think I've heard much that comes close all these years later!

I am interested in influence between composers/musicians, but even if it was uni-directional, I don't think it necessarily means the superiority of either one.

Stockhausen started using electric wah-wah trumpet in the late 1970s, while Miles used it as early as 1970. What did trigger KS's interest in electric trumpet? Was it just a coincidence that Miles had been extensively playing with electric trumpet in the early 1970s? Was it his son who roused KS's interest? If so, wasn't there indirect influence of MD on KS?

I listened to Upper-Lip-Dance. Quite impressive. Though I don't think Miles's technique was "fairly simplistic piss poor."

[chadfeldheimer]

The article itself is dubious .. i seriously doubt KS would have found much to like in Miles's trend-oriented music .. and in fact said so.

That would puzzle me, because Stockhausen played jazz in bars during his student days and I also think to hear a slight jazz influence in many of his works. I read that he did not like pop-music but never that the same holds for jazz in general and Miles Davis in particular. Can you give citations there?

And KS's use of mutes & values on the trumpet far surpass anything Miles (and his fairly simplistic piss poor technique) was dicking around with.

There I agree with torut and I also find the comment a bit too derogatory. Maybe Miles Davis was not the most virtuosic trumpet player there was, but this was not his goal either. For me he was able to express a lot of emotion with his spare play and as a band leader he teased out the best from his band members.

I don't think a MD influence on later Stockhausen works is so unlikely. Even if it came via his son Markus, in the end it was Karlheinz that signed for the work.

[chadfeldheimer]

Talking about influences - two month ago there was a large discussion about an influence of Stockhausen on Stravinsky. I wrote that I read about an influence on "Agon", but was not able to give citations. Lately I accidentally refound the source, which is on page 205 in the book "Experiencing Stravinsky: A Listener's Companion" from Robin Maconie:

"It really is in groups," said Stravinsky approvingly of Stockhausen's Gruppen for three orchestras (Memories 118-20 [UK], 112-14 [US]). Along with the wind quintet Zeitmasse, it is a score from which he took a great many ideas in orchestration and form. During the fifties the admiration was mutual: Stockhausen and Boulez both adopted the cimbalom, and Stravinsky's use of the piano in Agon as a bold melody sonority rather than a harmony instrument is one of several features of Gruppen he expressly admires.

[torut]

The article itself is dubious .. i seriously doubt KS would have found much to like in Miles's trend-oriented music .. and in fact said so.

That would puzzle me, because Stockhausen played jazz in bars during his student days and I also think to hear a slight jazz influence in many of his works. I read that he did not like pop-music but never that the same holds for jazz in general and Miles Davis in particular. Can you give citations there?

I am very interested in that. I couldn't find Stockhausen's positive comment about Miles, nor negative one.

Technique/range was not Miles strong suite, nor was his use of wah-wah. KS was always interested in electronics and in treating a whole array of acoustic instruments electronically since he started .. he simply added the trumpet to this large arsenal, it has nothing to do with Miles or how Miles played or used the instrument.

There are many techniques other than just playing high notes or fast passages.
I wonder why you are so certain that "it has nothing to do with Miles." Is there any reference about his motivation for the prominent use of electric trumpet starting in the late 1970s? (I have no intention to insist that MD had a significant influence on KS or MD was superior to KS. I am just curious.)

[Uatu]

Happy Holidays, and here is Stockhausen's Christmas gift:

Opus 44 - AMOUR - Five Pieces for Clarinet

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/12/opus-44-amour.html

[Uatu]

KATHINKAs GESANG als LUZIFERs REQUIEM

Tour de force flute solo with 6 percussionists playing homemade objects - one of my favorite Stockhausen pieces.

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/12/opus-52-kathinkas-gesang.html

[Uatu]

Love this one .. preferred version is the one with the IRCAM realized electronics, CD28 .. (a unique achievement!)
The Verlag just released a new DVD (No. 51) of it's performance, filmed 2013.

I love them both, really.  Knowing more about the sound plate pitch sequence and the density of the magic sounds made a big difference for me on the percussion version.  Exercise 14 is just great because it's just Lucifer tones and 1 magic sound - really beautiful. 

For the IRCAM one Ex. 22 is the killer one, as well as the Release of the Senses.  Total sonic Krazy.

[Uatu]

Stockhausen's epic piano work

LUZIFERs TRAUM (KLAVIERSTÜCK XIII),
also TRAUM-FORMEL for bassett-horn

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/opus-51-luzifers-traum-klavierstuck.html

[Uatu]

GESANG DER JÜNGLINGE (Song of the Youths)
4-channel electroacoustic music

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/opus-8-gesang-der-junglinge.html


     GESANG DER JÜNGLINGE, despite its relative brevity, is a masterpiece.  In just 13 minutes it sonically portrays a dialogue between humanity, technology and God.  This theme has since been re-used since 1957 by other composers, but I think in almost 50 years it has never been so economical or "soulful".  At the same time, the work can also be experienced as a multi-tiered aural landscape, with the boy's voice as sometimes in the foreground, and the electronics as background - or vice-versa.

     Another interesting thing is that even though the speech elements were initially organized serially to create an even distribution of attributes, if one has familiarity with the text (and many Germans at that time did), this familiarity actually creates a "lumpy" texture rather than the classic static ("flat") texture of many serially-organized works.  I think for this reason among others, GESANG DER JÜNGLINGE has been enjoyed by the general public more than many other post-war serial works.

     The Stockhausen Complete Edition CD 3 which has this work (as well as several other major Stockhausen works) is highly recommended, since it comes with a very informative book (from which some details of the above analysis came from) and lots of great pictures.

[Uatu]

This is probably one of the most FUN Stockhausen orchestral works. It's like avant-garde satanic Cab Calloway (in the Betty Boop cartoon). My next analysis will be solo piano tho (tired blurry eyes looking at 37 staff lines on each manuscript page....)

No. 53: LUZIFERs TANZ
(LUCIFER'S DANCE)
for symphonic/wind orchestra, with piccolo trumpet, piccolo flute and bass vocalist (or alternatively trombone/euphonium)

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/luzifers-tanz.html

[Uatu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXBM06b3VoM&


Reminds me of this actually...

[Uatu]

Two works by Stockhausen separated by 33 years. One has to do with the breath of Man, the other has to do with the breath of the Universe.

NATÜRLICHE DAUERN 1–24
(Natural Durations 1–24) for piano,  2005, 2006 [approx. 2 hours, 20 minutes]

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/naturliche-dauern-124.html



     These final piano pieces are truly beautiful "postcards" of shape and color.  If the KLAVIERSTÜCKE are oil paintings, then these are like watercolors, or maybe even Japanese rock garden (枯山水) sand art.  Stockhausen always put poetic expression and beauty above musical athleticism, and these are perfect examples of that.  In fact he almost makes fun of technical virtuosity by making some fingerings very awkward in order to limit the tempo.  Interestingly, I sometimes found looking at the scores for these to be a little deceptive, since the music ended up sounding quite different than what I first imagined (then again, I'm no pianist...).  In any case, these are great pieces to listen to on a frigid wintry night - the notes and chords fall like snowflakes onto a field of silence.  Some pieces are also evocative of encountering lost islands in the ocean, or exotic fish in the deep sea.


YLEM
for 19 players / singers and 4 shortwave radios

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/ylem.html



YLEM is a fascinating composition, reflecting in musical form a literally universal concept.  Beethoven was the first to be nicknamed the "universal composer", but Stockhausen here tosses his hat in the ring for that distinction.  The available recordings are interesting documents, but I think a live performance would have a much greater impact, with the sounds moving outwards in space, and eventually out of sight.  The think ideal situation would be where the musicians start at the center of the auditorium and move outwards in a circle, away from the audience in all directions.  On the recordings, the glissandi of the Connection Players are a little bit too low in the mix for my tastes (as well as the shortwave radio events), but they do provide a nice added dimension to the sound ether, almost like shooting stars, or spaceships "taking off and landing" as Stockhausen characterizes them.  Bernard Herrmann first used theremin tones to provide cosmic "atmosphere" to his film score for "The Day the Earth Stood Still", and the Connection glissandi at times reminds me a little bit of that feeling.  Also, when the ensemble moves to the next higher pitch level at the second Big Bang, it's a bit like the universe has been reborn in a higher dimension. One wonders if Stockhausen was aware of current theories about the stacked nature of parallel universes...

[Uatu]

LUZIFERs ABSCHIED
(LUCIFER'S FAREWELL)
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/01/luzifers-abschied.html
for male chorus with mass bells, Good Friday clappers, organ/synth, tam-tam and 7 trombones (live or tape) with a caged wild bird and a sack of coconuts
4th Scene of SAMSTAG AUS LICHT

Stockhausen's church work for robed monks who capture Lucifer (by running circles around him), stuff him into a black bird and then let him go, afterwards having a Hawaiian coconut party.  Take that, Satan!