Stockhausen's Spaceship

[Uatu]

My thoughts on Gruppen:

I like it.

...I just take the sounds as they come without trying to analyze them...

That's the way I listened to GRUPPEN for the first 20 years and it worked pretty well for me as well.  I think following along with score would be kind of a chore, especially the first few times.  I kind of feel the same way with Rite of Spring, though it's been a long time since I read through that...

I did do a verbal score here which is good for focusing on certain interesting dramatic elements (the drum battle and the brass battles of course are exceptional).
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/12/opus-6-gruppen.html

[chadfeldheimer]

My thoughts on Gruppen:

I like it.

It seems that some pieces need a proper way to listen to them. When I tried following along with the score a few months ago I liked it even less than I did before that. I've been listening to it at the gym (right after Varese Ameriques) and I just take the sounds as they come without trying to analyze them. I still don't enjoy it on my speakers at home or in the car. Perhaps not a James-approved way of listening , but it's good enough for me. I think that coupling it with the Varese makes it more enjoyable, too, for some reason.

Which recording did you hear?

[EigenUser]

Which recording did you hear?

WDR/Koln
[asin]B000ENC6P0[/asin]

Not the DG/Abbado et al.!

[chadfeldheimer]

WDR/Koln
[asin]B000ENC6P0[/asin]

Not the DG/Abbado et al.!

Excellent - that's a good one, even if I like the recording from the Stockhausen-Verlag with Boulez, Maderna and Stockhausen himself conducting a bit more.

[Uatu]

HIMMELFAHRT (Ascension)
for organ/synthesizer, soprano and tenor vocal soloists
2004, 2005 [37 min.]

      HIMMELFAHRT (Ascension) is the 1st "hour" of Stockhausen's originally-planned 24-part cycle KLANG ("SOUND") which is based on the 24 hours of the day.  HIMMELFAHRT, like the larger cycle itself,  has 24 "moments", which each have a different tempo.  The basic idea behind its composition is to give the right hand part these 24 tempo-based sections, and then at the same time give the left hand a different set of 24 sections, with a different sequence of tempos.  Additionally, the 24 sections do not change at the same time for both hands.  This creates a kind of "dialogue" between the left and right hand parts (as opposed to a traditional homophonic foreground/background texture).  The melodic material itself is derived from manipulations of a 24-note pitch row and uses a permutation technique based on repetition with addition/subtraction, with the repetitions bracketed by specific kinds of ornamentation or vocal parts.

     This work was originally requested by Don Luigi Garbini, a priest and organist associated with the Milan Cathedral, for the PAUSE contemporary music series organized by Artache.  It was eventually premiered there on Ascension Day, May 5, 2005, but this version had alot of problems because the organ sounds were not quite able to get the sounds that Stockhausen was looking for (many notes had strong unwanted overtones).  Eventually a synthesizer version with more refinement in the synth timbres was developed and premiered in 2006 at the Kürten Stockhausen Courses and Concerts.

More at the link:
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/himmelfahrt.html

[Uatu]

AUS DEN SIEBEN TAGEN (From the Seven Days) (1968)
15 "intuitive music" text compositions
for electroacoustic ensemble


     AUS DEN SIEBEN TAGEN could be seen as the 3rd in a trilogy of "process music" pieces.  PROZESSION used pre-chosen Stockhausen works as source material to be developed, KURZWELLEN utilized shortwave radio signals as "input", and the intuitive texts use the "supra-conscious" as the generative element (SPIRAL, POLE and EXPO I consider to be children of KURZWELLEN).  Actually the idea of "input" as mentioned in the case for KURZWELLEN reminds me of the 2 inputs necessary for a ring modulation circuit.  In that scenario, one input source modulates the other input source and the result is literally the sum and difference of their parts.  In AUS DEN SIEBEN TAGEN the output is, of course, not quite so cut and dry, but the cooperative element certainly produces a kind of sum and difference social ecosystem in a way.

     Finally, the influence and importance of Stockhausen himself on these recording sessions cannot be overstated.  Many groups have performed these intuitive texts (and new performances seemingly surface on Youtube all the time), but none of them seem to display quite the "fanatacism" (and I mean that in the most positive way) that is found in these recordings.  Even without Stockhausen's very aural participation in these recordings (be sings or plays an instrument on all but 2 of these recordings), these works fearlessly represent Stockhausen at his most naked.

Full report here:
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/aus-den-sieben-tagen.html

[Uatu]

Never convincing .. to me those text pieces (along w/ For Times to Come) represent the final stage in an evolution of the gradual release of control from the composer to the performers. "Pulling a rabbit out of a hat" .. When he delegated more control to the performers the likelihood of it producing musical rubbish increased as he said himself ..  and performer mannerisms/cliché are hardly avoidable too .. they set in at some point, he discovered this while touring. And nowhere more evidenced than with the pure text scribbles. He said he left them as documents .. didn't withdraw them, set them as a challenge to musicians. Interesting exercise I suppose but as music .. the lowest & least interesting point in his oeuvre. Scant in content/substance.

Then when he went back to writing/thinking things through on paper he produced another masterpiece - Mantra. His strength was being a composer in the classical sense.

The 70s represent his most uneven and least interesting period .. you have unbelievable masterworks, subpar stuff and pure drek.

Did you read my blog entry completely James?  I think based on my analyses of the recordings they are more valid than you propose here.  In fact lots of structures in these recordings are found in the composed works as well.  Personally I feel they are a natural outgrowth of all the aleatory elements in his work, starting from parts of MIXTUR and even continued into COSMIC PULSES (those tempo changes and melodic warpings are dropped in "intuitively").

But it IS nice to find out some works which you are not as fond of James!

[Uatu]

3 Works based on the Wednesday formula of LICHT:

TRUMPETENT for 4 trumpeters (1995) [approx. 16 min.]
MITTWOCH-FORMEL (Wednesday Formula) for 3 percussionists (metal, wood and skin) (2004) [23'35"]
KLAVIERSTÜCK XVIII (Piano Piece 18) for electronic keyboard (synthesizer) (2004) [12'12"]

One of the things I like about the Stockhausen LICHT operas is that there are many derivations of scenes and elements from the operas.  The fact that there were 27 years spent on a 29-hour opera cycle didn't prevent the composition of many chamber works, many of them more accessible than the operas themselves.  This was a CD well spent (CD 79)!

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/trumpetent-mittwoch-formel-klavierstuck.html

[Uatu]

Since the last post was so easy I updated my Stockhausen reference blog with a new...

TIMELINE HISTORY OF STOCKHAUSEN'S LIFE AND WORKS

Found alot of interesting factoids while putting this together.  Didn't know that Stockhausen and Helmut Lachenmenn went to Darmstadt Summer school together for one thing... 

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/year-biographical-info-from-official.html

[Uatu]

COSMIC PULSES, the 241 spatially-shaped, 24-layered, 24-timbred, 24-melodically-designed, 24-etc... is one of those works which, I have to admit, took me a little while to come to grips with. But now, it's one of my favorite electronic works. The "children" of CP (HAVONA, EDENTIA, URANTIA, etc...) also took awhile before I could sit still for them. But again, now they are some of my favorite of KSs electroacoustic chamber works.

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/cosmic-pulses.html

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/klang-hours-14-21-overview.html

Anyways, looking forward to experiencing this in 8-channel at the Courses in Kurten this year. If Antonio is there then I will be interested in talking to him about how he selected these timbres as well.... and if there is a MIDI file for the loops!

[chadfeldheimer]

COSMIC PULSES, the 241 spatially-shaped, 24-layered, 24-timbred, 24-melodically-designed, 24-etc... is one of those works which, I have to admit, took me a little while to come to grips with. But now, it's one of my favorite electronic works. The "children" of CP (HAVONA, EDENTIA, URANTIA, etc...) also took awhile before I could sit still for them. But again, now they are some of my favorite of KSs electroacoustic chamber works.

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/cosmic-pulses.html

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/03/klang-hours-14-21-overview.html

Anyways, looking forward to experiencing this in 8-channel at the Courses in Kurten this year. If Antonio is there then I will be interested in talking to him about how he selected these timbres as well.... and if there is a MIDI file for the loops!

Yes it is an interesting work, but I always get dizzy when listening to it, especially at the beginning, when there are only the slow layers. I would have prefered when the piece was less strict regarding starting with slow, low tones and ending with fast, high tones.

[Uatu]

I understand your point completely.  In fact since the CD contains 90 seconds of each loop (in isolation), I created a "personal" remix of Cosmic Pulses (KS would have hated that, but, this is just between me you and the internet).  What I did was I layered it backwards, starting from high loops, adding more 1 by one, and then subtracting loops whenever more than 4 loops were present (this way there is only 4 layers at any given time - much more like "classical" polyphony).  In order to "spatialize" this mix (the loops are all in mono) I used Adobe Audition's stereo rotation software, and I chose the setting called "Seasick".

It's kind of neat, if I do say so myself.

[Karl Henning]

Sounds like you have improved upon the original composition 

[Uatu]

Sounds like you have improved upon the original composition 

Well, it's good as a kind of "gateway drug" I suppose.     Also I just like high, rippling frequencies better than low ones.  But with just the 4 layers it becomes too easy to "get it", so to speak.  With COSMIC PULSES (and I mention this a little bit in my post) it's not quite as simple as slapping on more and more layers.  It's pretty clear to me that there's alot of intuitive dynamic mixing going on.  For example Loop layer 5 is a weird warbling timbre, but when it comes in, it doesn't just sit there warbling away for 8 minutes (that would be annoying),it fades in and out.  So in a way the piece is like an ocean of swirling timbres, and Stockhausen places islands and waves in there.  I mean really, I only hear 4 "primary" timbres at any given time, and the other 20 layers are much quieter. 

But my version is less than half as long, so there's that 

[Karl Henning]

You are this close to suggesting that Stockhausen would have been well served by an editor.  And you may be right, at that 

[Uatu]

You are this close to suggesting that Stockhausen would have been well served by an editor.  And you may be right, at that 

Haha, I could put many other names in there besides Stockhausen, too!  Starting with B...Bruckner... 

[Karl Henning]

To Bruckner's credit, though, he did revise his own work 

[North Star]

To Bruckner's credit, though, he did revise his own work 

Yes, and thanks to Anton doing as told, and other 'friendly people', we now have this mess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_and_editions_of_Bruckner's_symphonies

[Karl Henning]

Yes, and thanks to Anton doing as told, and other 'friendly people', we now have this mess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_and_editions_of_Bruckner's_symphonies

There you have it:  Some need editing, but are too sure of themselves to imagine so.  Others probably do not, so much, but their sensitivity leaves them open to at-times-destructive interference.

[Uatu]

This is going far afield of the composer topic (my own doing, admittedly), but my biggest problem with classical music is the repeat of the exposition in sonata form (hell, any form).  Before the invention of records, when one could only hear a work live, that made sense.  But now with the ability to hear a work as many times as your iPod has a battery charge, the expo repeat just kind of bores me.  And the recap had better be different!