Stockhausen's Spaceship

[EigenUser]

I would love to see a Ligeti blog done.  You should just pull the trigger and do it.  I doubt I'll be able to do as good a job as my Stockhausen coverage, simply because there is much less published self-analysis.  And my score-reading skills are fairly basic.  But a Ligeti piece just came up on my shuffle iPod and I was pretty amazed at the breadth of his style (Adaptations for Barrel Organ - Musica ricercata - VII. Cantabile, molto legato).  Great fun and worlds away from Lux Aeterna of course.

I really should. While I still consider Ligeti my 2nd/3rd favorite (why I feel compelled to rank composers, I have no idea), I have recently been more interested in Messiaen and his compositional techniques (particularly in regards to rhythm and harmony). I love how he uses serial techniques, but manages to give them a 'heart' (perhaps I am not making any sense).

I would love to do a guide to the piano concerto, though. It is so complex that it can be incredibly overwhelming the first few times someone listens to it, but I truly think that it is a special work that could easily be enjoyed by most people if they gave it a fair chance. It is as witty as it is intelligently written.

I've already done 'guides' for San Francisco Polyphony and Clocks and Clouds, though they are not nearly as in-depth as your KS guides. Aside from the PC, these are two of my favorite works. I wrote about them first since they are not nearly as complex as the PC.

By the way, I know I've told you this before, but that is a seriously good blog you have going there. Extremely well-organized. I would have never guessed that your score-reading skills are 'limited', as you claim. I have checked out a few books on KS from the library at my university and they don't come across as clear and engaging as what you have written in your blog. I am not kidding when I say that. Gurn (a moderator here on GMG) has done something similar with Haydn (also very well-written) with the intentions of publishing a book at some point in the future. I'm sure it sounds far-fetched to you, but it is something you should consider.

[(poco) Sforzando]

FYI - This will be on March 26, 2016.

I'll definitely go there. But how does a spectator get to all three venues? The Breuer building (the old Whitney, now replaced by a sterile and disappointing structure downtown in the meatpacking district) is only a 10-minute walk from the main museum. But the Cloisters is easily an hour's trip uptown on the M4 bus (or the A train, which is nowhere near the main building).

[Uatu]

I really should. While I still consider Ligeti my 2nd/3rd favorite (why I feel compelled to rank composers, I have no idea), I have recently been more interested in Messiaen and his compositional techniques (particularly in regards to rhythm and harmony). I love how he uses serial techniques, but manages to give them a 'heart' (perhaps I am not making any sense).

I would love to do a guide to the piano concerto, though. It is so complex that it can be incredibly overwhelming the first few times someone listens to it, but I truly think that it is a special work that could easily be enjoyed by most people if they gave it a fair chance. It is as witty as it is intelligently written.

I've already done 'guides' for San Francisco Polyphony and Clocks and Clouds, though they are not nearly as in-depth as your KS guides. Aside from the PC, these are two of my favorite works. I wrote about them first since they are not nearly as complex as the PC.

By the way, I know I've told you this before, but that is a seriously good blog you have going there. Extremely well-organized. I would have never guessed that your score-reading skills are 'limited', as you claim. I have checked out a few books on KS from the library at my university and they don't come across as clear and engaging as what you have written in your blog. I am not kidding when I say that. Gurn (a moderator here on GMG) has done something similar with Haydn (also very well-written) with the intentions of publishing a book at some point in the future. I'm sure it sounds far-fetched to you, but it is something you should consider.

Thanks for the kind words about the blog.  It's as much for my own edification as anything else.  I'm always interested in WHY a composer did this or that, and fortunately KS' scores are readily available at my library (and KS provides clear paths to explaining the 'why' in his writings, but leaves plenty for the interested listener to suss out for himself).  It's often that I don't immediately like a work, but then once I figure out what to listen for, then I can appreciate it much more.  Of course there are times that even then I still don't like it, but at least I got the message, and then it's just a matter of taste and I'm not judging from ignorance. 

If you post your Ligeti analyses online send me the link, I'd be interested in reading them.  I like Messaien as well, in doses (Chronochromie is a favorite), but haven't investigated him enough to really say exactly how much I like him.  He definitely has heart - I totally agree there.  I like Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jesus of course, and Turangalilie (though it goes on a bit too long maybe?)

I'll have to check out the Gurn's Haydn writings.  Again, small doses, some of the string quartets really grab me, and a few of the symphonies, but to me Beethoven overshadows all of that century.  Beethoven's my #1 favorite composer.  There's a link on my blog to my LvB project, which I think shows just how fanatic I was about LvB at that time....

[Uatu]

"...I would recommend that every student of music go dancing at least once a week. And dance. Please, really dance: three or four hours a week. Any dance, whatever is going at the discothéque or dance spot, though discos tend to become monotonous. Different dances; you should dance with a partner, and to different rhythms and tempi: slow, medium, fast, and in different rhythms based on two, three or four beats. Make your own evenings with tapes of folk dances: Austrian, Spanish, Hungarian, South American. There should be a good dancing teacher on staff, that would be perfect: not for ballet, but for social dancing, real social dancing, once a week, as part of the music course, for the whole duration of study."

(quote taken from p. 170 of the highly recommended "Stockhausen on Music")

Ah yeah, I remember this quote - when I first read it I was quite surprised.  However it's true, even while working on Samstag aus Licht in Kenya he was tearing it up at the discotheque in the evenings (this from "Gedenkschrift for Stockhausen").

The other thing I remember him saying (about music education) was that everyone should spend a few hours a day doing transcriptions from recordings.   I HATE doing that, I mean it's just fucking painful for me - but it's so true, it really ups your game and listening skills and reveals things about the music you would never get otherwise.  Even just copying to manuscript helps.

Nice to see you back James.

[EigenUser]

Thanks for the kind words about the blog.  It's as much for my own edification as anything else.  I'm always interested in WHY a composer did this or that, and fortunately KS' scores are readily available at my library (and KS provides clear paths to explaining the 'why' in his writings, but leaves plenty for the interested listener to suss out for himself).  It's often that I don't immediately like a work, but then once I figure out what to listen for, then I can appreciate it much more.  Of course there are times that even then I still don't like it, but at least I got the message, and then it's just a matter of taste and I'm not judging from ignorance. 

If you post your Ligeti analyses online send me the link, I'd be interested in reading them.  I like Messaien as well, in doses (Chronochromie is a favorite), but haven't investigated him enough to really say exactly how much I like him.  He definitely has heart - I totally agree there.  I like Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jesus of course, and Turangalilie (though it goes on a bit too long maybe?)

I'll have to check out the Gurn's Haydn writings.  Again, small doses, some of the string quartets really grab me, and a few of the symphonies, but to me Beethoven overshadows all of that century.  Beethoven's my #1 favorite composer.  There's a link on my blog to my LvB project, which I think shows just how fanatic I was about LvB at that time....

Here is my little section: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22986.0.html

I am gong through a big LvB phase, so I will need to check out your LvB blog. I remember seeing the link on the KS blog a while ago.

[Uatu]

Here is my little section: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22986.0.html

I am gong through a big LvB phase, so I will need to check out your LvB blog. I remember seeing the link on the KS blog a while ago.

Thanks - will take a look!

Here's the sitemap to my LvB blog:
http://lvbandmore.blogspot.com/p/365-posts.html

[Cato]

The other thing I remember him saying (about music education) was that everyone should spend a few hours a day doing transcriptions from recordings.   ... it really ups your game and listening skills and reveals things about the music you would never get otherwise.  Even just copying to manuscript helps.

Nice to see you back James.

Quite true!  I believe Leonard Bernstein in the 1940's spent time transcribing jazz improvisations from recordings, so that a permanent manuscript of the music would be available.  It is tedious, but the music will indeed "get into your fingers" better by doing those things.

And yes, Mister James is back!   Very nice!

[Uatu]

KLAVIERSTÜCKE V–X
(PIANO PIECES 5-10)

These scared the hell out of me until I figured out what they were about:
5. "the one with the satellite tones"
6. "the really big one with the satellite tones"
7. "the one with the silent halo notes"
8. "the one with the satellite chords"
9. "the one with the pounding chords and floating melodies"
10. "the one with forearm clusters and hand cluster glissandi"

A full disclosure here:
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/05/klavierstucke-v-x.html

[chadfeldheimer]

Lately I saved some money to buy my first Stockhausen opera on CD - "Samstag aus Licht" which is the part of "Licht" with the least solo-singing in it and there also are no synthesizer-sounds, two things I still have problems with in the Licht cycle. I have to say I do not regret it. "Luzifers Tanz" (my favorite from the opera) absolutely can compete with "Inori" or "Trans" Stockhausens orchestral masterpieces from the 70s. I even like the bass singing and the lyrics in this one. Also the "Samstags-Gruß", "Luzifers Abschied", the hynotic choral ending of the opera and the flute and percussion extravaganza "Kathinkas Gesang" are excellent. The piano piece "Luzifers Traum" from my first listenings fails a bit in comparison but is still good IMO. Maybe in a few month I'm ready for some other "Licht"-era Stockhausen. I think "Donnerstag" would be the next on my list.   

[Uatu]

Lately I saved some money to buy my first Stockhausen opera on CD - "Samstag aus Licht" which is the part of "Licht" with the least solo-singing in it and there also are no synthesizer-sounds, two things I still have problems with in the Licht cycle. I have to say I do not regret it. "Luzifers Tanz" (my favorite from the opera) absolutely can compete with "Inori" or "Trans" Stockhausens orchestral masterpieces from the 70s. I even like the bass singing and the lyrics in this one. Also the "Samstags-Gruß", "Luzifers Abschied", the hynotic choral ending of the opera and the flute and percussion extravaganza "Kathinkas Gesang" are excellent. The piano piece "Luzifers Traum" from my first listenings fails a bit in comparison but is still good IMO. Maybe in a few month I'm ready for some other "Licht"-era Stockhausen. I think "Donnerstag" would be the next on my list.

Samstag is probably my first favorite KS LICHT opera - really accessable as fas as Stockhausen goes.  Not sure if you will dig Donnerstag as much, since there's alot of solo singing.  Of course that has Michael's Reise , which is an awesome trumpet concerto with no vocals.   But it took me a long while to really enjoy the 1st and 3rd acts.

I would get Dienstag next, but that has loads of synthesizer in Oktophonie.   Hmmm, no solo-singing and no synth...maybe Welt-Parlament or Engel Prozessionen (both all choir), or Montag Aus Licht (lots of choral female stuff, some male solo stuff but really crazy)...

[chadfeldheimer]

Samstag is probably my first favorite KS LICHT opera - really accessable as fas as Stockhausen goes.  Not sure if you will dig Donnerstag as much, since there's alot of solo singing.  Of course that has Michael's Reise , which is an awesome trumpet concerto with no vocals.   But it took me a long while to really enjoy the 1st and 3rd acts.

I would get Dienstag next, but that has loads of synthesizer in Oktophonie.   Hmmm, no solo-singing and no synth...maybe Welt-Parlament or Engel Prozessionen (both all choir), or Montag Aus Licht (lots of choral female stuff, some male solo stuff but really crazy)...

Thank's for the recommendations. I know Dienstag a bit because some years ago I lend a copy of it from the public library. I remember I liked some parts of it (e.g. Oktophonie the electronic layer from the 2nd act), but some not so much. This probably could have changed in the meanwhile. I will watch out for the other pieces you mentioned. Btw Crazyness isn't a problem for me, e.g. I like Mikrophonie 2 and especially Opus 1970 very much, which are both considerable crazy pieces. But it has to be crazy in a good way, if you know what I mean.

[Uatu]

Oh yeah, the male solo in Montag (Lucifer's Fury) is crazy in a good way 

[chadfeldheimer]

Oh yeah, the male solo in Montag (Lucifer's Fury) is crazy in a good way 

Thanks. I saw that there is also a single CD (CD68) from Stockhausen-Verlag that contains this piece in a reduced version. The same CD does also contain a reduced version of Kinderfänger/Pied Piper. Thinking about purchasing it, the samples sound very promising, weird in a good way as you wrote and even psychedelic.

[Uatu]

Thanks. I saw that there is also a single CD (CD68) from Stockhausen-Verlag that contains this piece in a reduced version. The same CD does also contain a reduced version of Kinderfänger/Pied Piper. Thinking about purchasing it, the samples sound very promising, weird in a good way as you wrote and even psychedelic.

Oh right, forgot about that - yeah that's a good one!  The " 7 Songs of the Week" are pretty cool - not as virtuosic as the other pieces on there, but they are cool like in a Tierkreis-kind of way, just nice songs.

[Uatu]

Lucifer's Dance is killer .. love that one, especially on headphones. I'd put it well above both Trans & Inori.

If you liked Kathinka's Gesang .. then you'll probably like the version with IRCAM electronics on the flute collection he put out, Edition 28. I prefer it to the original version  ..

A very instrumental opera of the cycle is Mittwoch. Though imo, the first scene (World Parliament) for choir .. is the best thing, a truly amazing piece.

I'm going to write about Welt-Parlament very soon.  The "parking" scene is really funny.  You saw that in Birmingham, right James?

[chadfeldheimer]

Lucifer's Dance is killer .. love that one, especially on headphones. I'd put it well above both Trans & Inori.

Maybe it grows on me to that statue too. For a "definite" judgement I have to hear it a few times more and also have to know it longer. Trans & Inori I regard very high.

If you liked Kathinka's Gesang .. then you'll probably like the version with IRCAM electronics on the flute collection he put out, Edition 28. I prefer it to the original version  ..

Just checked the IRCAM version out on Youtube. I also prefer the version in the opera with "real" percussionists, mostly because I'm still not able to fully apreciate those digital synthesizer sounds. Would love to hear a version with Stockhausen's trademark 50s to 60s tape-splicing accompaniment, if a bit of wishful reverie is allowed.

A very instrumental opera of the cycle is Mittwoch. Though imo, the first scene (World Parliament) for choir .. is the best thing, a truly amazing piece.[/font]

Thanks. I will check that out too.

And also a welcome back from me, even if I saw your return dates a few days back.

[Uatu]

James, I'm going to the Stockhausen Courses (July 10-19) and will be giving 2 lecture/discussion panels there.  While I'm there I'll definitely be checking out the Mittwoch DVD!

Hope to see anybody else from this forum there (though I have a feeling I should not hold my breath, haha)

[chadfeldheimer]

My first experience with a complete LICHT opera was Samstag; when I received the set i decided to listen to the whole thing via headphones .. I was mesmerized and amazed the whole time, though I felt the ending dark choir thing was too long. On this first listen, it just kept getting better and better for the bulk of it, all the different moods & atmospheres .. the music peaking with Lucifier's Dance which is a furious, fiery, spontaneous sounding piece .. very different in character than either Trans or Inori .. so each stands on it's own, as each has their own character. Lucifer's Dance is very unique, a giant concerto for orchestra with all those wind groups .. and killer solos, percussion etc .. and then (esp. on the first listen) the surprise ending/decay/banter. It's just the kind-of thing that was so refreshing to my ears, it wasn't quite like anything I had heard before, and I love when that happens. Stockhausen is one of those rare artists who is able to surprise time & time again. Such a strange, curious & beautiful imagination he had.

Yes he is really quite unique in how he reinvented his music several times successfully.

[Uatu]

No. 65: MITTWOCHS-GRUSS (Monday Greeting)
8-Channel Electronic Music

MICHAELION is described by Stockhausen as "a galactic headquarters for delegates of the universe." With this in mind, the synthetic tones MITTWOCHS-GRUSS serve quite well to portray the background hum of a futuristic alien cosmopolis. On the surface it seems like a relatively sedate "ambient" piece, but on further examination there's actually quite alot happening, both in the timbres themselves (modulation, aleatory rhythmic shapes, overtone cycling, etc...) and in the way that the timbres change on average every 20 seconds (this is an eyeball-average, based on just looking over the timings). This work also acts as a kind of "rosetta stone" for the character-specific timbre vocabularies of the MICHAEL, EVE, and LUCIFER formulas, here newly-developed between Stockhausen and Antonio Pérez Abellán, and which would be employed for the remainder of the electronic elements of LICHT.

It's interesting to compare MITTWOCHS-GRUSS with the other two long-form, electronically-synthesized music works of LICHT: OKTOPHONIE and FREITAGS-GRUSS/FREITAGS-ABSCHIED (WELTRAUM), since those works are also electronic elongations of specific Days of the LICHT super-formula (but with Simon Stockhausen's collaborative contribution instead of Abellán's). Besides the differences in Simon and Antonio's sound vocabulary, all three works have differing structural shapes. MITTWOCHS-GRUSS has the fastest-moving "timbre progression" in all of its layers, whereas WELTRAUM is much slower in some layers . OKTOPHONIE could be considered to have more "point-like" textures (shots, bombs, etc...), whereas the other two works are based more on sound "masses". MITTWOCHS-GRUSS' timbres have more "hard" timbre changes, while OKTOPHONIE and WELTRAUM takes a more developmental, modulating approach. However, MITTWOCHS-GRUSS' frequent "moment-form" timbre changes could be considered a natural outgrowth of the constant timbre changes of the "bass pattern" in WELTRAUM's second half. This "electronic fantasy trilogy" is probably one of my favorite aspects of the LICHT opera cycle, and each of the three delivers something new every time I listen to them.

Full disclosure below:
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2015/06/mittwochs-gruss.html

[Uatu]

This is a blog analysis I did of REFRAIN from more than a year ago. Considering how "green" I was at that time to writing about KS it's not too bad I think (though I'll be rewriting it once my first round through the 101 works are completed).
Anyways, I post it here since I added a nice new picture

http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/2014/05/opus-11-refrain.html