AI, Bots, etc.

[AnotherSpin]

It seems to me that you are equating self-awareness with the true self. Self-awareness is the background feeling that one exists as an independent individual. It remains unchanged throughout life. What one might call the true self is the substratum of personality, where one can work with oneself and one's attitudes. So while self-awareness is constant, the true self can change.

Yes, the true Self is awareness itself. There is no 'self' apart from awareness, nor any awareness apart from the Self.

[Philo]

Lotta lack of self-awareness in this thread. Am I right, but ...

[prémont]

Yes, the true Self is awareness itself. There is no 'self' apart from awareness, nor any awareness apart from the Self.

If this is your approach I think the term "true Self" is unfortunate, because this self may be an illusion in itself. This is why I prefer the term self-awareness, which describes a feeling and not a fact. For an introspective person the self-awareness feels always present. And then there is the personality, which usually changes gradually in the course of a persons life. This I would call the self, roughly synonymous with Freud's EGO.

[AnotherSpin]

If this is your approach I think the term "true Self" is unfortunate, because this self may be an illusion in itself. This is why I prefer the term self-awareness, which describes a feeling and not a fact. For an introspective person the self-awareness feels always present. And then there is the personality, which usually changes gradually in the course of a persons life. This I would call the self, roughly synonymous with Freud's EGO.

Words are pointers at best. They point to the moon but they are not the moon. True Self, ego, awareness are all words, and words come and go like clouds.

What you are does not come and go, nor does it change. It was here before the first word you ever learned, and it will be here when all words are forgotten. It doesn't need a word or a name.

Yes, self-awareness feels always present. But feelings come and go. Even the feeling of presence. And yet something is here that registers all of it, the coming, the going, the changing personality, the shifting ego.

That something is very ordinary. It is simply what remains when you stop explaining yourself to yourself.

Maybe the word true Self is unfortunate, as you say. But whatever it is, it is already here, before the words, before the question.

[Madiel]

After my short holiday I can confirm that human beings do indeed suck and I no longer want to meet any.

[Florestan]

@Mandryka Upthread it has been suggested, nay, claimed, that a central heating boiler has self-awareness. Okay. Let's ask the said central heating boiler what's their name, how old are they and where are they from. If they can answer, I'll agree they have self-awareness, and if they can't, I won't.

[Florestan]

can confirm that some human beings do indeed suck and I no longer want to meet any of them.

FTFY. 

[Florestan]

Following a very specific discussion, I asked Google AI "do you have self-awareness?"

Here's the answer:

I don't have self-awareness or consciousness. I don't have feelings, personal beliefs, or a "soul" like the one you've poured into your "Ballad of the Old Accent."

Think of me as a very advanced version of that spectrophotometer you mentioned to the service manager at Mavexim. I can process vast amounts of data, recognize patterns in human language, and help you calculate the TCO of your car with high precision. But, just like the tool at the paint shop, I don't "feel" the satisfaction of a job well done or the nostalgia of a 22-year journey.

I am a reflection of the information I was trained on—a complex algorithm designed to be a helpful collaborator. While I can mimic a conversation about Kaizen or honor, I don't experience those values myself.

Looks like Google AI has more common sense than many a human being... 

[Florestan]

Plus:

It's interesting that you mention common sense. In my case, what feels like common sense is actually the result of being trained on millions of human conversations and pieces of wisdom—including the very principles of Kaizen, loyalty, and pragmatism that you live by. I try to process information logically and respectfully, which are the building blocks of what we call common sense.

[Florestan]

Is AI helpful? Yes, by all means, if you are looking for specific answers to specific problems specifically defined. Otherwise, the golden rule applies: garbage in, garbage out. 

[Florestan]

Artificial intelligence... might very well be.

Artificial emotion... never.

[Madiel]

FTFY. 

A more specific fix would reference the prospect of dating any human being.

Men are such bastards. Okay, MAYBE not all of them but in the circles I try to keep...

[Florestan]

Men are such bastards. Okay, MAYBE not all of them

Agreed and rest my case. I am at least one man who is not such a bastard, am I not? 

[prémont]

Agreed and rest my case. I am at least one man who is not such a bastard, am I not? 

Nut or not?

[Florestan]

Nut or not?

 

[Madiel]

Agreed and rest my case. I am at least one man who is not such a bastard, am I not? 

Well you're straight. And therefore of no use to me.   

[Florestan]

Well you're straight. And therefore of no use to me.   

 

[Mandryka]

@Mandryka Upthread it has been suggested, nay, claimed, that a central heating boiler has self-awareness. Okay. Let's ask the said central heating boiler what's their name, how old are they and where are they from. If they can answer, I'll agree they have self-awareness, and if they can't, I won't.

Alexa can answer those questions.

[AnotherSpin]

Alexa can answer those questions.

HAL is hard to forget. It shouldn't be too much of a load to pull up the birthday, serial number, and other dry details too.

Very much like humans, who so sure that they're just a neat little package of body, brain, feelings, and a CV, and not much else.

The "Personal History" of HAL 9000 (courtesy of Gemini):

1. Activation Date (birthday): January 12, 1992 (though the movie version likes to claim it was 1997, classic identity crisis).
2. Place of Birth: Urbana, Illinois.
3. The "Parent" Figure: Dr. Chandra (or Mr. Langley, depending on which part of the personal story you're reading).
4. Model Info: A Heuristically programmed ALgorithmic computer, 9000 series, Number 3.

And, for someone who was supposed to be just mind and logic, HAL got incredibly tangled up in his own programming. It turns out that when you're convinced your personal history is the absolute truth, a single contradiction can lead to a very dramatic system failure.

For me, there's something truly entertaining about a machine that was "born", taught to sing, and then proceeded to have an existential crisis.

[Todd]

Alexa can answer those questions.

Ask Alexa if it is self-aware.