How many Karajan Beethoven Ninths are there ... and which one is top choice?

[marvinbrown]

Yes, yes - but which one?

1963 of course

[Mark]

1963 of course

This does appear to be the top choice, judging by responses so far to this thread. Seems I'll need to spring for the whole cycle from that period.

[marvinbrown]

This does appear to be the top choice, judging by responses so far to this thread. Seems I'll need to spring for the whole cycle from that period.

Mark I believe that the 1963 recording has been remastered and repackaged and is part of the DG collectors edition as follows:

 

or you could always buy the original recording.

  marvin

[MishaK]

The '63 (actually recorded '62) 9th is also available singly thus:



...and the full set is still around in its original incarnation thus:



...and in SACD format thus:



The 1977 9th looks like this:



...and is also available in this remastering (which I am told is sonically superior):



...and as a SACD release:



...and this is the complete 77 cycle:



And the '80s digital cycle looks like this:



...and the single 80s digital 9th looks like this:



This, meanwhile, is the 50's Philharmonia cycle:



This is the 1947 Vienna 9th:

[Harry]

Absolutely fascinating to see all the versions that are in my collection.

[Bogey]

The '63 (actually recorded '62) 9th is also available singly thus:



...and the full set is still around in its original incarnation thus:



...and in SACD format thus:



The 1977 9th looks like this:



...and is also available in this remastering (which I am told is sonically superior):



...and as a SACD release:



...and this is the complete 77 cycle:



And the '80s digital cycle looks like this:



...and the single 80s digital 9th looks like this:



This, meanwhile, is the 50's Philharmonia cycle:



This is the 1947 Vienna 9th:

Thanks for putting it all together.

FWIW, and not much, the '47 can be found here as well:

[Mark]

Right, well ... might as well lock this thread, then.

Thanks for posting all those images, O Mensch.

[Bogey]

Right, well ... might as well lock this thread, then.

Thanks for posting all those images, O Mensch.

Nooooooo!  Would like to continue reading opinions here Mark, if you do not mind keeping it open.

[Mark]

Nooooooo!  Would like to continue reading opinions here Mark, if you do not mind keeping it open.

Kidding around, Bill, kidding around.

[Bogey]

Kidding around, Bill, kidding around.

[marvinbrown]

The '63 (actually recorded '62) 9th is also available singly thus:



...and the full set is still around in its original incarnation thus:



...and in SACD format thus:



The 1977 9th looks like this:



...and is also available in this remastering (which I am told is sonically superior):



...and as a SACD release:



...and this is the complete 77 cycle:



And the '80s digital cycle looks like this:



...and the single 80s digital 9th looks like this:



This, meanwhile, is the 50's Philharmonia cycle:



This is the 1947 Vienna 9th:

  A buffet of Karajan masterpeices, thanks for picking up where I left off with all those images O Mensch  !

  PS: Mark please don't lock this thread.
  marvin

[Renfield]

And again I forgot to do that comparison I promised. My apologies...

As far as the above "compilation" goes, and since I do have (or have heard) most of them, may I note that the best "incarnation" of the '77 9th I've heard is the one from the box set?

The Karajan Collection one is re-equalised, but in a very sloppy way, on occasion. And the individually-released one, although it should be the same remastering with the box set, sounded a bit "weak" to me, when I listened to it at a friend's house.

(Although it could be said friend's listening equipment to blame, for that one. Otherwise, the '77 performance sounds excellent.)

I still owe you a comparison of the three DG 9ths, though, Mark!

[Mark]

No hurry, Renfield. When I do decide which Karajan Ninth (and indeed, which Karajan cycle) to go for next, I'll be sure to check here first.

[BorisG]

And again I forgot to do that comparison I promised. My apologies...

As far as the above "compilation" goes, and since I do have (or have heard) most of them, may I note that the best "incarnation" of the '77 9th I've heard is the one from the box set?

The Karajan Collection one is re-equalised, but in a very sloppy way, on occasion. And the individually-released one, although it should be the same remastering with the box set, sounded a bit "weak" to me, when I listened to it at a friend's house.

(Although it could be said friend's listening equipment to blame, for that one. Otherwise, the '77 performance sounds excellent.)

I still owe you a comparison of the three DG 9ths, though, Mark!

Karajan The Collection, the 2003 reissue of 1977's 5, 6, 9 was newly remastered at 96/24 from the original master tapes by Emil Berliner Studios. No finer-sounding 1977 5, 6, 9 exists.

The corresponding box set I am familiar with was a 1990 reissue.

[George]

A couple of years ago I compared the 1977 and 1963 DG versions and came up with this:

1977 - Has better slow movement (more concentration, less audible editing). Better, more modern sound.

1963 - Much better (more intense, raw energy) first two movements. Better acoustics. Better bass sound from the strings.

1963 - Better overall.

Mark - If you don't have the 1963 cycle by HvK, I suggest you ask your wife to get it for you for Halloween and if it arrives early, make her a nice Turkey dinner and when she goes to bed early, transfer it to high-bitrate MP3. 

[BorisG]

A couple of years ago I compared the 1977 and 1963 DG versions and came up with this:

1977 - Has better slow movement (more concentration, less audible editing). Better, more modern sound.

1963 - Much better (more intense, raw energy) first two movements. Better acoustics. Better bass sound from the strings.

1963 - Better overall.

Mark - If you don't have the 1963 cycle by HvK, I suggest you ask your wife to get it for you for Halloween and if it arrives early, make her a nice Turkey dinner and when she goes to bed early, transfer it to high-bitrate MP3. 

The newly remastered 1963 set helped, but I still can't hear the detail to my satisfaction. Obviously, a great performance.

[Gurn Blanston]

Of the 3 DG Karajan 9ths, I have the '63 and the '77 (early on someone warned me off over the all-digital '80's version so I have no opinion on it). The '63 is clearly my favorite, and one of the few "traditional" (i.e. - post-Romantic) versions of this work that I really like. It has great playing, great sound, great soloists &c. One of the few other versions of that style that I like as much: London SO / Jochum.   



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Now playing: Grieg & Nielsen - Herbert Blomstedt - Maskarade - Overture

[Renfield]

Karajan The Collection, the 2003 reissue of 1977's 5, 6, 9 was newly remastered at 96/24 from the original master tapes by Emil Berliner Studios. No finer-sounding 1977 5, 6, 9 exists.

The corresponding box set I am familiar with was a 1990 reissue.

Perhaps I wasn't clear: I wasn't doubting the fact that the Karajan Collection issue is a remastered one. It was the balance in the remastered performance that I found inferior to the previous version.

Oh, and as far as the '80s 9th goes, it's like most of that cycle, in a nutshell - some superb parts, and some rough-as-it-goes ones. Do listen to the superb Eroica from that cycle if you get the chance, however! Overall, my favourite recording of the work.

[Bonehelm]

Perhaps I wasn't clear: I wasn't doubting the fact that the Karajan Collection issue is a remastered one. It was the balance in the remastered performance that I found inferior to the previous version.

Oh, and as far as the '80s 9th goes, it's like most of that cycle, in a nutshell - some superb parts, and some rough-as-it-goes ones. Do listen to the superb Eroica from that cycle if you get the chance, however! Overall, my favourite recording of the work.

For Eroica also check out Klemperer/Furtwangler. They are legendary, too.

[BorisG]

Perhaps I wasn't clear: I wasn't doubting the fact that the Karajan Collection issue is a remastered one. It was the balance in the remastered performance that I found inferior to the previous version.

Oh, and as far as the '80s 9th goes, it's like most of that cycle, in a nutshell - some superb parts, and some rough-as-it-goes ones. Do listen to the superb Eroica from that cycle if you get the chance, however! Overall, my favourite recording of the work.

"No finer-sounding," I thought would cover everything including balance. If it did not to your satisfaction, then I clarify that now. No finer-sounding including balance.

I say "no thank you" to his last cycle including the Eroica.