The Early Music Club (EMC)

[San Antone]

Anyone read this? Care to comment on how accessible it is to someone with little formal training in musical analysis?

Very accessible - historical/biographical study of Machaut's years at Reims, little in the way of musical analysis.  She is the strongest on the issue of the mass endowment although she has come under some criticism for her translation of the plaque in order to make her argument stronger.  So, I am not sure I entirely trust her scholarship, but she writes a lot on Machaut and seems to be generally respected.

[San Antone]

I am thinking of buying the five volumes of the Lassus Biographie musicale.  Seems Presto is the best place to find them.


Question: I've read that the early volumes get off to a slow start.  But Singer Pur is featured on much of the music, so I ask, are all five volumes worthwhile?

[Mandryka]

Very accessible - historical/biographical study of Machaut's years at Reims, little in the way of musical analysis.  She is the strongest on the issue of the mass endowment although she has come under some criticism for her translation of the plaque in order to make her argument stronger.  So, I am not sure I entirely trust her scholarship, but she writes a lot on Machaut and seems to be generally respected.

What does the plaque say inFrench?

[San Antone]

What does the plaque say inFrench?

It's in Latin, and her translation of one word, something like "petitionium" has been called into question.  Apparently it is a legal term and she translates it more like a personal petition by the brothers.  Nonetheless the book is a good read and offers a lot of information.  Her book and the one by Elizabeth Eva Leach compliment each other and both would be good to have for anyone who is especially interested in Machaut.

[Que]

I am thinking of buying the five volumes of the Lassus Biographie musicale.  Seems Presto is the best place to find them.


Question: I've read that the early volumes get off to a slow start.  But Singer Pur is featured on much of the music, so I ask, are all five volumes worthwhile?

Oh, definitely! 

Here are the ensembles featured in the five volumes :
I) Ludus Modalis/Bruno Boterf;
II) Singer Pur;
III) Egidius Kwartet & College/ Peter de Groot;
IV) Odhecaton/ Paola Da Col;
V) Vox Luminis/ Lionel Meunier

Can't make any sense of the "slow start" comment....  The volumes by Ludus Modalis and Singer Pur are actually extremely successful IMO.
If anything, the slightly Italianate angle and larger forces employed by Odhecaton took somewhat getting used to...
But I played that recording the other week, and found it splendid.
So it's all good.

Q

[San Antone]

Oh, definitely! 

Here are the ensembles featured in the five volumes :
I) Ludus Modalis/Bruno Boterf;
II) Singer Pur;
III) Egidius Kwartet & College/ Peter de Groot;
IV) Odhecaton/ Paola Da Col;
V) Vox Luminis/ Lionel Meunier

Can't make any sense of the "slow start" comment....  The volumes by Ludus Modalis and Singer Pur are actually extremely successful IMO.
If anything, the slightly Italianate angle and larger forces employed by Odhecaton took somewhat getting used to...
But I played that recording the other week, and found it splendid.
So it's all good.

Q

I'm in!  Thanks, I was a little confused by that "slow start" comment as well - odd that Presto chose to include it on their page.

[Que]

I'm in!  Thanks, I was a little confused by that "slow start" comment as well - odd that Presto chose to include it on their page.

Later I realized that it might have something to do with the fact that the series is chronological and therefore starts off with the earliest works, which might for some impress less. Not me, I adore every morsel of Lassus...

Q

[Mandryka]

It's in Latin

Ah, that's a shame, I was looking forward to making my own translation!

[San Antone]

PALESTRINA Missa Papae Marcelli. Tu es Petrus. Gaudent in caelis. Sicut cervus/Sitivit. GUERRERO Regina caeli. VICTORIA Missa O quam gloriosum. Gaudent in caelis • New York Polyphony • BIS 2203



It is amazing the difference OVPP makes with Palestrina.  I never could enjoy his music as much a I thought it deserved because of the sound of groups like the Papal Choir and Westminster Choir - large choral groups.  This relatively recent recording (August 2016) by New York Polyphony breathes new life into these iconic works, and it is like I am hearing them for the first time.

Highly recommended.

[San Antone]

This came in last week and I didn't listen past the first 30 seconds of the first track.  This is one case when I should have really read a review before purchasing since it has everything I dislike in early music recordings.  Despite the rave on Music-Web it contained the truly disqualifying pieces of information:

This is a female group singing music specifically for men (this music was "written" by Franciscan monks and sung in their Medieval monastery).  Instruments are used to accompany them (I turned it off after 30 seconds because the first track sounded like new age music to me)



I went for the 4-CD set, which was comparably priced for the single disc recordings of the same music and I usually enjoy Brilliant recordings.  The only other recordings are by Ensemble Organum (Corsican singers) and one that while primarily by a male group also uses female voices for some of the pieces.  So, I knew I didn't want the Peres disc and also didn't know anything about the other recording.  This one looked good, four times as much music and a newer recording.  However, I never dreamt it would be done by an all female group.

The Marcel Peres recording exhibits the expected singing style as well as featuring a female soloist, and I haven't heard the other recording but I think it is on Naxos Music Library.

[kishnevi]

Might not the music been used by nuns? Which would justify an all female performance although not the instruments.

I was struck by the use of the term "paraliturgical", which suggested something neither fish nor fowl.

The similarity to new age is a risk that comes with the territory. I have started listening to the L'Oiseau Lyre Medieval and Renaissance box.  Perhaps it was a function of the era in which these performances were recorded, mid 80s to early 90s, but what struck me is how much more like modern folk, world music, Celtic music and American bluegrass, than anything so-called "classical", the music of the Middle Ages was.

[San Antone]

Might not the music been used by nuns? Which would justify an all female performance although not the instruments.

I was struck by the use of the term "paraliturgical", which suggested something neither fish nor fowl.

The similarity to new age is a risk that comes with the territory. I have started listening to the L'Oiseau Lyre Medieval and Renaissance box.  Perhaps it was a function of the era in which these performances were recorded, mid 80s to early 90s, but what struck me is how much more like modern folk, world music, Celtic music and American bluegrass, than anything so-called "classical", the music of the Middle Ages was.

You might think that the music could have been sung by nuns, but the history is straightforward.  This music is from a manuscript which was created and kept at a specific monastery and sung by the monks there.  "Paraliturgical" is a reference to the texts being hymns praising the figure of Mary but which were not used during any service. 

In the most informative review I've read, but for the Peres recording, J. F. Weber* describes the music as simple monophonic hymn tunes that are repeated for each stanza of the poems, which can go on for 15-20 minutes.  He chides critics who claim this cannot help but become monotonous, hence the attempts to enliven the music.  Peres uses them to construct an kind of "passion play", so his is even less representative, besides his choice of singing style.

These may never see the light of say in their intended form (which was why I was so interested in hearing them).  The 13th century was a more contemplative time, a long way from the MTV jump-cut instant gratification age that we currently occupy.



* I recently discovered he is a Catholic priest, Fr. Jerome, who writes the best early music reviews I've ever read.  He has spent the last 30 years compiling and updating a comprehensive discography of Gregorian chant.  His knowledge of sacred early music is encyclopedic and his taste is in line with my own.  He hasn't written anything about the Brilliant set, but I would love to read his thoughts.  Although he never writes a nasty review, he simply describes the contents and explain how it is nor is not typical for the music. 

[Que]

This came in last week and I didn't listen past the first 30 seconds of the first track.  This is one case when I should have really read a review before purchasing since it has everything I dislike in early music recordings.  Despite the rave on Music-Web it contained the truly disqualifying pieces of information:

This is a female group singing music specifically for men (this music was "written" by Franciscan monks and sung in their Medieval monastery).  Instruments are used to accompany them (I turned it off after 30 seconds because the first track sounded like new age music to me)



I went for the 4-CD set, which was comparably priced for the single disc recordings of the same music and I usually enjoy Brilliant recordings.  The only other recordings are by Ensemble Organum (Corsican singers) and one that while primarily by a male group also uses female voices for some of the pieces.  So, I knew I didn't want the Peres disc and also didn't know anything about the other recording.  This one looked good, four times as much music and a newer recording.  However, I never dreamt it would be done by an all female group.

The Marcel Peres recording exhibits the expected singing style as well as featuring a female soloist, and I haven't heard the other recording but I think it is on Naxos Music Library.

It might be interesting but it is not "the real thing".  Peres added extraneous music from a variety of sources in order to create his "mystery play".  From what I can tell there are only 7 items from the Laudario manuscript.  Then there's the issue of the Corsican singers ...

Ah, I later realised  that might be confusing....sorry about that...
I meant hearing real Corsican singers for the first time.

Just read your comments about the Brilliant set.
That Pérès was taking some liberties as well, I was aware. For one, he is using female voices.
Reading through the booklet, Pérès seems rather occupied with countering the monotony of these Laude , which can be lengthy and repetitive in using a single, simple melody for every stanza. The countering of monotony is also connected to the use of the Corsican singers.

All very interesting....
An alternative reading would be that the music itself is, despite its historical significance, is not that interesting?

Q

[San Antone]

They seem to have been reissued by Naxos:

[asin]B0000014DE[/asin]

[asin]B00004VXDN[/asin]

[asin]B000009IMY[/asin]

Unfortunately responses do not seem to be favourable, nor was my own impression upon sampling...
Old fasioned approach and not so well executed....
But then again, I am definitely not a Vartolo fan.

Q

The Mantovane 3-vol. series contains ten masses and I don't think these on Naxos duplicate the masses in the Mantovane series,  (at least I hope not; I ordered all three volumes at an average price of $50/per).  J. F. Weber writes about the Naxos Beate Virgine issue, "Don't confuse this work with the six-voice setting (or with the Marian Masses in the Mantua set)."

I have learned to trust J. F. Weber from Fanfare in early music repertory; he writes about vol. 1, "This is a major addition to collections that already have the principal works of the composer, not to be missed."  He later said about vols. 2 and 3, "I have been waiting anxiously for these issues ever since Vol. I was greeted with considerable acclaim (Fanfare 18:5) ... Vartolo, as before, is content to let the music unfold as naturally and effortlessly as possible. Paola Besutti, who wrote an extensive and informative note for the first set, writes another one, shorter and basically the same for these two sets. The sound of the solo voices with discreet organ accompaniment is captured effectively in the cathedral."   

Also, for me the issue is finding Palestrina masses that I haven't heard before.  He wrote 104, and the same ones keep getting recorded over and over while many great works are left untouched.  Varolo's series made a nice dent in the unrecorded works.  I hope to collect all of them at some point, at least 70 of the 104 have been done so far, and I am not sure how many I lack, but these three volumes were ones I definitely feel good about purchasing.

Re: the three volumes like this one:

[San Antone]

Ah, I later realised  that might be confusing....sorry about that...
I meant hearing real Corsican singers for the first time.

He used real Corsican singers on his Machaut mass recording ...

[Drasko]

The way I understand Laude are religious chants originating in and around Franciscan order but they are not meant to be sung in liturgy, the fact they are written in vernacular Italian makes that sure (that's why the therm paraliturgical, I guess). They were meant primarily for ordinary folk, lay singers and confraternities to be sung during processions and religious festivals, some even in dramatic form. I'm not sure they inherently exclude Corsican (or any other local) style of singing, female singers or even use of instruments.

[San Antone]

The way I understand Laude are religious chants originating in and around Franciscan order but they are not meant to be sung in liturgy, the fact they are written in vernacular Italian makes that sure (that's why the therm paraliturgical, I guess). They were meant primarily for ordinary folk, lay singers and confraternities to be sung during processions and religious festivals, some even in dramatic form. I'm not sure they inherently exclude Corsican (or any other local) style of singing, female singers or even use of instruments.

The history of these monophonic works is a bit more complex than that.  Originally they were sung by the "confraterities" i.e. monks usually Franciscan, and "[w]hile laude were sung primarily during the services of laudesi and disciplinati companies throughout the 14th and 15th centuries, lauda singing was gradually adopted during this period in other contexts favourable to popular devotion." (Grove)  So it would seem that they began as private group devotionals and then later were used as part of the Franciscan outreach to the local communities in which they were sung by the communities during and after the sermons.

However, early on they were sung privately and when done during the Compline service, a penitential mood was desired with the intention to "move the brothers to tears" and even scourging took place after the singing.

As far as the issue of monotony, it is all in the ear of the beholder, but I would like to hear these sung in their original context, i.e. male singers chanting them in a serious and "dark" manner.

[San Antone]

A virtually unknown Renaissance composer, Matthaeus Pipelare (c. 1450–c. 1515), gets his second recording of his mass L'Homme Arme and first recordings of three other masses (remarkable!) released in 2016:



Paul Van Nevel was the first to find and record this mass (a candidate for worst album covers) from approx. ten years prior:



The Sound and the Fury usually do a good job and this is no exception.  The disticntive thing about this mass is the low tessitura in places giving the polyphony a somewhat muddy texture but those sections are not long or many.

Good to have more music from little known composers from this period, and this is apprently volume 1 of Pipelare; if this holds, then there's more to come.

[JCBuckley]

The Sound and the Fury set was released in 2014, rather than 2016. I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask if volume 2 might be in preparation, but had no response. If it does appear, I'll definitely be getting it. I thought volume 1 was outstandingly good.

[San Antone]

The Sound and the Fury set was released in 2014, rather than 2016. I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask if volume 2 might be in preparation, but had no response. If it does appear, I'll definitely be getting it. I thought volume 1 was outstandingly good.

I was wondering about an earlier release, since this was labeled "remastered".  Thanks for the info about the first release.  It is good to know they are still active, and recording virtually unknown composers to add to the catalog of Renaissance music.