Verdi 's Requiem

[Anne]

Is there anyone who has listened to the Reiner recording?

[Tsaraslondon]

IOW the Requiem has become more about Verdi than about the conductor or soloists.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. The greatest performances of the Requiem are about Verdi, rather than the conductor and soloists. Surely the best case for any work, whoever composed it, is going to be made by performers who can fully realise its demands.

[Holden]

Is there anyone who has listened to the Reiner recording?

Yes, and it is an excellent interpretation. To go back to 'Spitz's' story about his mother, this has the best version of the recordare I've ever heard. The vocal combination of Pryce and Elias is just a match made in heaven they way their voices meld into each other.

Pavarotti, as Superhorn mentioned, had a glorious voice in his younger days and his combination with Pryce, Cossotto and Ghiaurov in this DVD is peerless as far as I'm concerned.

[czgirb]

So ... what is your recommendation's recordings of this work? Overall. Not just for Soprano or etc.

I have RCA's Toscanini (both LP and CD) and Telarc's Shaw (CD). Toscanini is MONO. Shaw is STEREO. So ... Shaw sounds better. 
But when I listen through Headphone ... Toscanini's thrill me more than Shaw.
So ... I pick RCA Toscanini as my recommendation.

[czgirb]

So ... what is your recommendation's recordings of this work? Overall. Not just for Soprano or etc.

I have RCA Toscanini (both LP and CD) and Telarc's Shaw (CD).
Toscanini in MONO. Shaw in STEREO. So ... Shaw sounds better. 
But when I listen through Headphone ... Toscanini's thrilled me more than Shaw.
So ... I pick RCA Toscanini as my recommendation.

[mc ukrneal]

So ... what is your recommendation's recordings of this work? Overall. Not just for Soprano or etc.

I have RCA Toscanini (both LP and CD) and Telarc's Shaw (CD).
Toscanini in MONO. Shaw in STEREO. So ... Shaw sounds better. 
But when I listen through Headphone ... Toscanini's thrilled me more than Shaw.
So ... I pick RCA Toscanini as my recommendation.

In my opinion, there are no ideal versions of the Requiem on CD (none that I have found yet anyway). The Karajan on DVD would probably be my first choice and comes closest.  There are so many places in the music where one can want a different approach and many issues I find that one or more stumble on.

A couple examples:
- Speed of the Dies Irae - too many start fast and then by the time they are 30 seconds in, they are much slower (drives me crazy), with instant slowdowns when the chorus comes in. Interestingly, I don't mind it slow or fast if played at a relatively consistant tempo. There are a few that start slow but then speed up. This doesn't seem to bother me.
- Tuba mirum trumpet fanfares - in some recordings, you can hear the fanfares/entries distinctly, while in others you just hear continuous trumpet (and some are in between). The ones that are continuous lack something in my opinion.

Of course, there is a lot of discussion on the quality of the soprano, and I do agree that a good Aida is the voice you want here. This is in part why Karajan's on DVD is so good. The thing is, a good voice will still make for a good Requiem, so this is not a deal breaker for me.

I've considered getting Giulini and Reiner and they are well priced at Presto at the moment, but I think I'll see how the Naxos and Toscanini versions go first. I've not heard the new Muti or Pappano. Both had issues on the bits I heard on amazon/yourtube/npr, but may be fine overall versions. Already having the previous two Mutis, I think I will skip the latest. Of course, modern sound is a tremendous advantage here too, so I really have high hopes for the Naxos.
 

[Sadko]

I think this one hasn't been mentioned yet:



Melodiya MEL CD 10 00433 (ADD), EAN 4600 3170 0433 1

Galina Vishnevskaja (soprano)
Irina Arkhipova (mezzo soprano)
Vladimir Ivanovskij (tenor)
Ivan Petrov (bass)
Leningrad Philharmonics
Aleksandr Melik-Pashaev

vinyl transfer, recorded live 1960-07-12

It has poor sound, but I like it, Melik-Pashaev's conducting and Vishnevskaya.

[MishaK]

This one:



just won two Grammies for best classical album and best choral performance. I just listened to it yesterday. The latter award is certainly deserved. Both orchestra and chorus sound phenomenal and Muti of course leads a dramatic and involved reading. Superb attention to dynamics. The downfall of this recording is the soprano, Barbara Frittoli, who is well past her prime, apparently. She has a mile-and-a-half vibrato that sometimes requires serious good will on behalf of the listener to guess what pitch she's actually aiming for. She makes this CD rather unpleasant for me. The tenor Mario Zeffiri also lacks heft, is simply underpowered. The lower end of the vocal spectrum, Borodina and Abdrazakov, do fine. Too bad. Such fine choral singing and orchestral playing is rare, but marred by subpar soprano and tenor.

[madaboutmahler]

Now looking for a recording of Verdi's epic masterpiece: the Requiem.
Feeling especially tempted by the performance from Fricsay on DG after hearing an absolutely thrilling account of the "Tuba Mirium". Is this a good choice?
If not - Pappano? Abbado? Karajan? Gardiner? Bychkov? Davis? Muti? Guilini?

Opinions please!

Thank you!
Best Wishes, 
Daniel

[mc ukrneal]

Now looking for a recording of Verdi's epic masterpiece: the Requiem.
Feeling especially tempted by the performance from Fricsay on DG after hearing an absolutely thrilling account of the "Tuba Mirium". Is this a good choice?
If not - Pappano? Abbado? Karajan? Gardiner? Bychkov? Davis? Muti? Guilini?

Opinions please!

Thank you!
Best Wishes, 
Daniel

This is a really tough one. I would say there is no ideal performance. They all have flaws of some sort.

Fricsay is good. And I do love his Tuba Miirium - ideal that. Sound could be better, but could be worse. Good singing. Pretty quick (one disc).
Muti - I have the first two (he has a recent third version) and neither would be a first choice for me. The first Muti is fierce though!
Toscanini - Still haven't gotten to this one, maybe tomorrow! high expectations though - I like the transparency he gives it in the clips.
Naxos - Very good. I felt a bit let down by the singing at times. Good sound. 
Solti - Excellent. More operatic. Perhaps too fierce at times?
Shaw - Good, but lacks something for me. Too polished perhaps.

I have yet to listen to Toscanini and Barenboim. My next purchases will probably be Abbado or Giulini (and maybe Gardiner if I track it down for a good price). Reiner is another I am considering.

[Lilas Pastia]

Interesting reading. Feelings on the Requiem seem to differ depending on the preferred viewpoint. My most recent purchase was the Chicago-Solti recording, recently reissued as as generous single cd. I can't think of a better sounding version, but I can certainly think of some that are at least as well played or sung (chorus), a few that are better conducted, and a good many with better soloists (honest: Baker in Verdi sounds like curdled milk - the worst possible quality you want to hear in Verdi singing).

It all depends where your focus is.

I have the Melik-Pashayev recording, with a really fantastic sloists line-up. But it seems to have been a day off for the conductor and engineers.
Solti's older Decca recording has excellent sound and playing, but soloists that all but listen to their own precious selves. Individually lovely, but not conducing to repeated listenings. It's so good in parts that repeated listenings do occur. Had Solti had better soloists in his second run (Chicago), he would have secured a place on the podium.

Karajan's various recordings (I think of the 3 on DG) and Toscanini's 2 RCA accounts have what I look for: great orchestral and choral playing, the grand vision - almost visually arch-like, and good to great soloists. I like Giulini(s), De Sabata, but am not too keen on Fricsay, Barbirolli, Gardiner, Bernstein, Muti I, Harnoncourt and a few others because of various shortcomings. One I really was impressed with is Haitink in Amsterdam. But it never made it to the commercial circuit.

If you can listen past Karajan's less than thunderous bass drum strokes in the Dies Irae or Toscanini's refusal to slow down for the occasional orchestral/vocal effusion, I suggest you give those a try. My take: Karajan II and III (soprano soloists are Freni and Tomowa-Sintow) or Toscanini II (1951). Karajan I and Toscanini I are more about the soloists. The conductor defers to them (Karajan I - a bad thing) or they are not of the same artistic persuasion (Toscanini I).

Verdi's Requiem is much like Mahler's 8th. Poor orchestral or choral forces will ruin it. Mediocre soloists will kill it. Indifferent conducting will make you snatch the remote for the next track. In this particular instance, the individual parts can add up to more than the whole.

[Tsaraslondon]

I've heard several live performances of Verdi's Requiem, and it rarely fails to thrill. The most memorable was an impromptu performance at The Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, given to raise money for the family of a stage hand who had been tragically killed in an accident backstage, just before a performance of Don Carlo. It seems Ricciarelli, the Elisabetta of the production, had got her colleagues together and then suggested it to the Opera House. Everyone, including chorus and orchestra gave their services free. Sir Colin Davis conducted , and the other soloists were Agnes Baltsa (absolutely superb), Arthur Davies (deputising for Dennis O'Neill, who was unavailable). I can't remember the bass. The circumstances of the performance no doubt resulted in making it something very special and moving.

Ricciarelli, singing better than I have ever heard her on record, was also the excellent soloist at a performance at The Royal Festival Hall, when Lamberto Gardelli substituted for an ailing Giulini. This too was a performance I won't forget easily, though I am not at all sure who the other soloists were. I have a vague recollection that the tenor may have been Gedda, who disappointed by seeming to try and outsing his colleagues, but this may have been at a different performance. Whether it was or not, none of the soloists matched Ricciarelli, who was in superb form, singing far better than I have ever heard her elsewhere.

On disc, I have always loved the first Giulini, though the sound rather lets it down now. The soloists may not be exactly idiomatic but they are a peculiarly homogenic bunch. Many don't take to Schwarzkopf's less than Italianate tone, but I find her intelligent use of the text and subtly nuanced singing more than makes up for it. She blends superbly with Ludwig too. A honeyed toned Gedda and Ghiaurov, in rich and beautiful voice make up the rest of the quartet.

Muti I I used to own. Is it driven a little too hard? Possibly. Scotto is, it has to be said, not really the right soprano for the task, but she sings with almost as much intelligence as Schwarzkopf and with blazing commitment. Baltsa is again superb, Luchetti and Nesterenko less so.

Karajan's video performance probably has the best soloists of the lot: Leontyne Price, at her absolute peak, Cossotto, not especially subtle but in superb voice, a stunningly fresh voiced Pavarotti and Ghiaurov. The sound is probably not as good as Karajan's CD only performances, but in all other aspects it eclipses them.

I suppose I ought to try some of the more modern performances. I've heard the Gardiner but it did nothing for me. Pappano I find more tempting. I doubt any though, will come up to that very special performance at the Royal Opera House all those years ago.

[Holden]

Karajan's video performance probably has the best soloists of the lot: Leontyne Price, at her absolute peak, Cossotto, not especially subtle but in superb voice, a stunningly fresh voiced Pavarotti and Ghiaurov. The sound is probably not as good as Karajan's CD only performances, but in all other aspects it eclipses them.

This is my top choice and there are two incarnations of the DVD. The later one (with the black cover as opposed to brown) is far better sonically and for once you can hear an appreciable difference from a remastering.

[Drasko]

If you can listen past Karajan's less than thunderous bass drum strokes in the Dies Irae...

Would this one do?

http://www.mediafire.com/?uewfc2vcwriw6md

[Lilas Pastia]

Yup ! Egad ! These are real thunderbolts from hell.  Especially impressive is the slashing motion imparted to rythms. Demons flying around in a whirlwind of fire . Unfortunately the set seems to be OOP at the various sites I checked.    . The Païta recording seems to have the same type of fire and brimstone approach. I've heard only the very same excerpt (on Païta's web site), but have never seen the disc anywhere. I distinctly recall reading a review stating that Carlo Bini was the most vulgar tenor ever in this work...

I also have a live Karajan with Gundula Janowitz, Bergonzi, Ludwig and Ghiaurov (WP). More of the same, in bad sound. And although I love Janowitz, she sounds bizarre in Verdi. Another favourite soprano with a rather similar voice type is Gré Brouwnstijn, and she was more at home in Verdi. The conductor is the excellent Paul van Kempen (with a welcome appearance by the romanian tenor Petre Munteanu). With the Santa Cecilia orchestra and chorus. That is very good too. IIRC the best sounding disc I've heard is from Sylvain Cambreling with the SWF Baden-Baden u. Freiburg orchestra. Tremendous sonic power, fine conducting, but uneven soloists and a slightly soft aproach.

The EMI Abbado is well done all around, but it doesn't move me one bit. I feel I'm given a lesson. I have heard only excerpts from the La Scala Abbado (DGG) and it seems to burn at a rather low temperature. Lovely voices though.

[kishnevi]

Hurrah for vulgar tenors!

I agree about the EMI Abbado.  Every part is great, but somehow the overall effect fails to manifest.
I have, I think, four recordings of the Requiem--the Abbado, Reiner (left me unimpressed and the sound seems muffled at important points), Colin Davis on LSO Live (nothing wrong with it, but in the end quite missable), and the Solti with Sutherland and co, which I actually think is a wonderful recording.  Of course, Pavarotti knew a good deal about being a vulgar tenor....

[Tsaraslondon]

The EMI Abbado is well done all around, but it doesn't move me one bit. I feel I'm given a lesson. I have heard only excerpts from the La Scala Abbado (DGG) and it seems to burn at a rather low temperature. Lovely voices though.

Your quote here reminds me of a performance I attended, conducted by Sinopoli. It was an extremely interesting evening. I heard things in the score I had never heard before, but in the end the performance was a good deal less than its parts. It was as if Sinopoli had carefully untangled all the elements of the score and set them out for admiring display, but in so doing, had removed the heart. The performance left me completely unmoved, something that has never happened to me in a performance of the Requiem, either before or since.

[david johnson]

Now looking for a recording of Verdi's epic masterpiece: the Requiem.
Feeling especially tempted by the performance from Fricsay on DG after hearing an absolutely thrilling account of the "Tuba Mirium". Is this a good choice?
If not - Pappano? Abbado? Karajan? Gardiner? Bychkov? Davis? Muti? Guilini?

Opinions please!

Thank you!
Best Wishes, 
Daniel

you should get the fricsay and the guilini.  you will be happy.

[madaboutmahler]

you should get the fricsay and the guilini.  you will be happy.

Ok, thank you! I think I will start of with the Fricsay, the excerpts I have heard from this recording are very tempting!

[knight66]

SO many to choose from and as has been suggested; none that ring all the bells on CD. The Karajan DVD mentioned is terrific. There is an Abbado from the Edinburgh Festival and I think that also is excellent: Margaret Price and Jessye Norman the two female soloists.

On CD: I have quite a few

Abbado: I agree all the right things in the right place, but the magic is missing.
Gergiev: Lots to enjoy, but completely ruined by the use of Bocelli.
Solti: Sutherland, Spectacular, but the sound on my newish pressing is nasty, glassy and like pulling nails down a blackboard.
Solti: Price, Baker....I don't agree with Andre, listen to the use Baker makes of the words and the lack of use Price makes. However, she is not a natural Verdian. But I do return to this set.
Guilini: I simply find the temperature too low, its classic status mystifies me
Barbirolli: Really like the soloists, but the first quiet choral entries are muttered to the point of inaudibility.
Karajan: Janowitz...agree with Andre.
Karajan: Christoff.....ye gods, Christoff just destroys the tempi with his super slow entries and stately way with his music. He takes Karajan hostage.
Serafin: Gigli, lots to love, but poor sound.
Harnoncourt: I am surprised Andre did not mention this one as I know that he has it. It is way off the mainstream, but is thought provoking, going for the liturgical aspect and perhaps playing down the drama. But not a first choice for anyone new to it.
Toscanini: I have it, but can't lay hands on it to confirm which version: but it is terrific if you can put up with the boxy sound.
Gardiner: It won awards, but does nothing for me.

I have been tempted by the Fricsay, but really have so many versions. Bychkov is probably a good bet, I rate him highly. Can anyone comment on it?