Author Topic: Bach: Mass in B minor  (Read 115437 times)

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Offline knight66

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2009, 01:53:42 PM »
Yes, it really is and would come as a revelation to anyone who only knows his later fix on the work. It is lithe, muscular, rhythmic and boasts an excellently trained chorus. It is quite close in may ways to how it is now paced. It is a great pity he later went into full-on stodge mode.

Mike
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Offline Sorin Eushayson

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2009, 06:23:24 PM »
Gardiner's is good.  Really good.  Whenever I hear a new Mass in B Minor recording I compare it to his.  Suzuki has an excellent recording out as well, better in technical quality than Gardiner's, but seeming somehow disconnected from the music.  Herreweghe's also came across as disconnected, a little distant and quiet for some reason; subdued.  Haven't heard Harnoncourt's or Leonhardt's, are there samples available somewhere?  I'm always up for more of this magnificent mass!  ;D

Offline Que

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2009, 06:28:38 PM »
Gardiner's is good.  Really good.  Whenever I hear a new Mass in B Minor recording I compare it to his.  Suzuki has an excellent recording out as well, better in technical quality than Gardiner's, but seeming somehow disconnected from the music.  Herreweghe's also came across as disconnected, a little distant and quiet for some reason; subdued.  Haven't heard Harnoncourt's or Leonhardt's, are there samples available somewhere?  I'm always up for more of this magnificent mass!  ;D

Haroncourt is a bit dissapointing IMO, Leonhardt is a fine performance but try Thomas Hengelbrock (DHM)! :)

Q

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2009, 07:49:17 PM »
Herreweghe's also came across as disconnected, a little distant and quiet for some reason; subdued.

Herreweghe certainly finds more subtlety in this work but 'disconnected' isn't exactly fair.

No, his approach isn't 'exhibitionist' but it needn't be when other things are so effective. Atmosphere, nuance, color...just an overall mood that brings its own rewards.
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2009, 07:58:33 PM »
Gardiner's is good.  Really good.  Whenever I hear a new Mass in B Minor recording I compare it to his.  Suzuki has an excellent recording out as well, better in technical quality than Gardiner's, but seeming somehow disconnected from the music.  Herreweghe's also came across as disconnected, a little distant and quiet for some reason; subdued.  Haven't heard Harnoncourt's or Leonhardt's, are there samples available somewhere?  I'm always up for more of this magnificent mass!  ;D

I have the version by Gardiner as well.  But his tempo is fast.  Somehow when I first got the set in the early 90's, it sounded fine.  Lately, I have found his Bach's tempi may be a tad too fast for my taste.  Perhaps this is an age factor? 

Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2009, 07:59:28 PM »
Just ordered this DVD and I am looking forward to watching it ...


Offline Sorin Eushayson

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2009, 07:41:15 PM »
...try Thomas Hengelbrock (DHM)! :)

Q

Ordered!

You planted the seed of curiosity in my mind, Q!  Thanks for the recommendation.  I saw there were two issues, so I ordered the cooler-looking one in the red case.  ;) I'll let you know what I think when it arrives...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 07:43:27 PM by Sorin Eushayson »

Offline KevinP

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2009, 03:19:06 PM »
If anyone's interested and missed it the first time around, here's the Listening Group discussion I led on this great work back in 2005:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,5637.0.html

Offline Que

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2009, 12:15:08 AM »
Ordered!

You planted the seed of curiosity in my mind, Q!  Thanks for the recommendation.  I saw there were two issues, so I ordered the cooler-looking one in the red case.  ;) I'll let you know what I think when it arrives...

Ha! :) Well, I'lll interested to hear your opinion on this one. Ultra clear and transparent in the choral lines, with a strong pulse - speedy faster movements but the slower movements are decidely unhurried. Lots of character and emotion but not overbearing or indulgent and not mechanical.

BTW the cover left is just a cardboard slip case (on occassion of the reissue on a lower price), and contains the CD with the red cover on the right. So you get the same CD.

Q

« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 10:49:52 AM by Que »

Offline The new erato

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2009, 02:00:11 AM »
Haroncourt is a bit dissapointing IMO, Leonhardt is a fine performance but try Thomas Hengelbrock (DHM)! :)

Q
That's the one in the DHM 50 anniversary box with 50 CDs, very cheaply available. I have the box, but listening to another B minor wasn't on my schedule. Will see what I can do about that.

Offline KevinP

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2009, 03:26:54 AM »
Haven't listened myself yet, but Christoph Wolff gives a lecture on the Mass, which you can listen to here:
http://broadcast.iu.edu/lectures/bach/

Offline Sorin Eushayson

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2009, 12:37:10 AM »
Ha! :) Well, I'lll interested to hear your opinion on this one. Ultra clear and transparent in the choral lines, with a strong pulse - speedy faster movements but the slower movements are decidely unhurried. Lots of character and emotion but not overbearing or indulgent and not mechanical.
You have great taste, Que - this is a magnificent recording of the B Minor Mass!  :o  Tempi are just right for my tastes (I prefer the quicker movements to be nice and fast as well) and the sound quality is pristine (the instruments sound amazing and brass and drums are nice and crisp).  I even thought the vocalists were superb, which is odd for me.  At first I was surprised by the pace through the Kyrie, then I looked at the score: it seems Hengelbrock is playing it as designated and it works wonderfully.  There is also an amazingly deep and passionate feel about the performance...  Thank you so much for the recommendation!  ;D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 03:36:42 PM by Sorin Eushayson »

jlaurson

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2009, 02:41:41 PM »

Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2009, 05:00:25 PM »
After a late dinner, I hope to play this DVD ...


Offline Coopmv

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2009, 11:12:51 PM »
The Karl Richter's Mass in B Minor DVD is quite good.  In my opinion, one really develops much better appreciation for the Bach passion by watching the DVD, which provides the visual orientation that the audio only CD-set cannot do ...

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2009, 01:13:02 AM »
This was released in France last December but has been released elsewhere only in recent months.  I have listened to it only once through but have been really impressed.  Minkowski has managed to create this truly rich and yet transparent sound out a 10-strong choir and 26-piece orchestra and his interpretation is surprisingly more nuanced, sensual, and dramatic than most other dozen HIP recordings I have heard.  To me his experience in Handel and in French baroque operas pays off handsomely here. 



For further refrence, this is the press review that I identify most among those I have read so far:

All Music Guide review of Bach B minor Mass recording (Minkowski) by Stephen Eddins
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Que

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2009, 09:12:03 PM »
Any takers for this new issue? :)



Review at MusicWeb

Q

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2009, 10:02:23 PM »
Any takers for this new issue? :)



Review at MusicWeb

Q

Not me, I guess - I have already had the new Minkowski recording (above).   The musicweb critic doesn't seem to be aware of the Naive, so a direct comparison is not present in his article.  In general, though, I have found Kuijken to sound bloodless when compared to Minkowski, and I don't really need another Junghanel-style OVPP Mass in b minor that soon.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2009, 10:40:20 PM »
Not me, I guess - I have already had the new Minkowski recording (above).   The musicweb critic doesn't seem to be aware of the Naive, so a direct comparison is not present in his article.  In general, though, I have found Kuijken to sound bloodless when compared to Minkowski, and I don't really need another Junghanel-style OVPP Mass in b minor that soon.

Minkowski as preferable to Kuijken? In Bach’s music? Not in Handel’s music, but in Bach? It is hard to accept, Masolino, especially when I have listened to some excerpts on the web.

Kuijken is certainly in my shopping cart and not simply as a new Junghänel.  :)

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Bach: Mass in B minor
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2009, 11:35:18 PM »
Minkowski as preferable to Kuijken? In Bach’s music? Not in Handel’s music, but in Bach? It is hard to accept, Masolino, especially when I have listened to some excerpts on the web.

Kuijken is certainly in my shopping cart and not simply as a new Junghänel.  :)


The problem for me is HOW different the Kuijken can be from the Junghänel, when the Minkowski is already SO different from the Junghänel (or the Veldhoven). :D  On the other hand, I don't see why it is not possible to prefer Minkowski to Kuijken in Bach (with the exception of violin playing I suppose :)) if the former can (and did) deliver a radically new, beautiful and valid interpretation of his music.  To put it more bluntly, more experience doesn't necessarily equate more artistic insight, and I must say I was truly surprised by Minkowski's refreshing approach listening to his recording of the b minor mass.
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!