The Historically Informed Performances (HIP) debate

[Lethevich]

Here's Norrington distilled to tablet form ........ much better .........

...

[Gurn Blanston]

Clearly, Gurn, you and I move in very different circles.

You opened the door, dear boy, I just walked through it...



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Now playing: Beethoven 9ths - Minnesota Orchestra/Vanska - Beethoven Symphony #9 in d Op 125 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn has already answered that: because there are "people on forums and the like who feel like it's their mission in life to spread the good word and who end up scaring off others with their rabidity. You and I have a mutual friend who has done that. I have known him for years and seen him absolutely thrash people who didn't buy into it."

I knew you would recognize what I meant there, Larry. I have heard you complain about it before, and rightly so. BTW, did you note my earlier post about fortepiano range? I think that is another subject (key selection based on instrument capabilities) that you have some feelings about.



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Now playing: Beethoven 9ths - Minnesota Orchestra/Vanska - Beethoven Symphony #9 in d Op 125 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai

[BachQ]

BTW, did you note my earlier post about fortepiano range?

Please provide link .........


........ Thanks in advance ........ 



Dm

[Kullervo]

...

!

[Gurn Blanston]

Please provide link .........


........ Thanks in advance ........ 



Dm

It is reply #28 in this very chain...


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Now playing: Berlioz Harold en Italie & Les Troyens - London SO / Colin Davis - Berlioz Harold in Italy pt 2 - March of the Pilgrims, Singing the Evening Prayer: Allegretto

[BachQ]

It is reply #28 in this very chain...

Here's the link

[karlhenning]

I agree with all of your points. In fact, to address one of the most common complaints that I see about HIP, the more liberal interpretation that you, Que and I take here is precisely the opposite of that espoused by HIP purists, and is also the biggest turnoff for people with only a casual exposure. They feel (rightly) bullied into having to accept "pure" HIP as the only way a thinking person should ever listen to music. As if there were such a thing as "pure" HIP!! And the true logical oddity is that the extremists espouse, like a religion, something that is only a theoretical conception of how it might have been!   

Testify! 

[karlhenning]

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Now playing: Berlioz Harold en Italie & Les Troyens - London SO / Colin Davis - Berlioz Harold in Italy pt 2 - March of the Pilgrims, Singing the Evening Prayer: Allegretto

Yes!

[Don]

There are many extremist HIP and anti-HIP folks.  I don't pay any attention to them; I just go with performances that give me the most rewards.

[DavidW]

I've now been convinced that Norrington=Soylent Green.

[locrian]

I've now been convinced that Norrington=Soylent Green.

Tasty!

[FideLeo]

Gurn has already answered that: because there are "people on forums and the like who feel like it's their mission in life to spread the good word and who end up scaring off others with their rabidity. You and I have a mutual friend who has done that. I have known him for years and seen him absolutely thrash people who didn't buy into it."

And that is HIP?  Please 

[FideLeo]

Tasty!

Obviously Germans agreed - Norrington is now the artistic director of Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra. 

[Harry]

Obviously Germans agreed - Norrington is now the artistic director of Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra. 

His Beethoven symphonies are great, ravishing third and first.
If I could only lay my hands on his Brahms he recorded many moons ago, fo a reasonable price.....

[FideLeo]

His Beethoven symphonies are great, ravishing third and first.
If I could only lay my hands on his Brahms he recorded many moons ago, fo a reasonable price.....

Do you mean his Brahms Deutsches Requiem and symphonies with the London Classical Players (period instruments)?  The Requiem was re-released and the symphonies are currently available in Japan (Toshiba
EMI, mid-price).  Indeed Norrington has quite a few fans in Japan - the most complete Norrington discography
online is in Japanese. http://www.kanzaki.com/norrington/discography?lang=ja (English version http://www.kanzaki.com/norrington/discography?lang=en). 

[Larry Rinkel]

And that is HIP?  Please 

And your point is?

[BachQ]

And your point is?

Since when does one require a "point" in order to post a reply?

[Greta]

Just ran across this thread. 

I like HIP. Very much. Up until a year ago I didn't know much about the practice of HIP, or listen to much of it, but GMG changed all that!

Why do I like it:

Mostly, the cleaner textures. And even though you can't come to a 100% reproduction of the original first performances, I still appreciate that I am hearing at least an approximation of the orchestration and tone colors the composer had in mind when he was writing. I find myself focusing on the music, the writing more, when I listen to (good) HIP recordings.

I also of course enjoy non-HIP, and hybrid-HIP or some combination thereof, of said works just as much if done well. But nowdays I actually prefer to be introduced to the earlier periods of music in nice HIP recordings if I can get ahold of them.

I just finished my fall half of upper-level music history, where we went from the beginning of music up to Handel, so as a result I had to do a lot of listening that cemented my affinity for HIP recordings. Our required listening was taken from the Norton Recorded Anthology of Western Music, Vol. 1, which included a smorgasbord of excerpts from some, what seemed to me, to be excellent HIP performances.

Most of the recordings appear to be taken from the label Harmonia Mundi, they are one of the leading labels for HIP, I think? And Hyperion is also well represented.

Here's a few of the excerpts that struck me most from the Norton collection, performance and piece:

de la Halle: Robins m'aime, De ma dame vient - Tonus Peregrinus - HNH International (Haunting. Really gorgeous.)
Leonin: Viderunt omnes - Elliot/Concentus
Palestrina: Pope Marcellus Mass - Phillips/The Tallis Scholars - Gimell
Monteverdi: L'orfeo - Rogers, Medlam/London Baroque - EMI
Purcell: Dido and Aeneas - Lorraine Hunt, Choir of Clare College, McGegan/Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra - Harmonia Mundi (Heartbreaking!)
Vivaldi: Violin Concerto in A minor, Op. 3, No. 6 (L'estro armonico) - Simon Standage, Pinnock/English Concert - Archiv (Excellent!!)

[Que]

Just ran across this thread. 

I like HIP. Very much. Up until a year ago I didn't know much about the practice of HIP, or listen to much of it, but GMG changed all that!

Most of the recordings appear to be taken from the label Harmonia Mundi, they are one of the leading labels for HIP, I think? And Hyperion is also well represented.

Greta, welcome to the club also known as the "Harpsichord Brigade" - a term invented by Harry Collier, if memory serves well....

Harmonia Mundi was one of the first labels to pioneer HIP and still is a important player.

Most of the major companies have a special HIP sub-label: Archiv (DG), Virgin Veritas (EMI), L'Oiseau Lyre (Decca), Vivarte (Sony), Deutsche Harmonia Mundi - DHM (BMG), Teldec "Das Alte Werk" & Erato (latter is predominantly HIP) (both Warner).

And several smaller lables are largely or excusively devoted to HIP recordings. To name just a few: Accent, Alpha, Ricercar, Opus 111, Astrée, Alia Vox, Glossa, Channel Classics (mixed), Zig Zag Territoires (mixed), and K617.

Q