Gustavo Dudamel - A Hype if there ever was one!

[sound67]

Couldn't agree more with Gramophone's review of his Mahler recording:

They start superbly but these young players miss the measure of Mahler

   This is in many respects a rerun of the recording of Beethoven's Fifth and Seventh symphonies (DG, 11/06) by these preternaturally gifted young musicians. As before, one comes away excited and disappointed in almost equal measure.

The symphony is the very devil to perform. A vast Scherzo dominates its central ground, cutting across the journey like a pathless Alpine range. On one side sit two movements that speak of death and conflict; on the other, a love song and a carousel that turn the second movement's unlooked for glimpse of D major heaven into an all-singing, all-dancing D major heaven on earth.

Dudamel and his players are superb in the first two movements. This is music which suits their style, serious and impassioned, universal rather than local, untroubled by kitsch. Brilliantly as the orchestra plays, Dudamel never allows the music-making to become glossy-toned or hysterical, as older and supposedly wiser conductors have sometimes done. He studied the work with Claudio Abbado and in these opening movements the lucidity of his direction is worthy of the master himself.

It is in the mighty Scherzo that things begin to go wrong. Here, for the first time, one notices how bland the orchestra's massed woodwinds sound. The strings and solo brass continue to impress but this is patchwork music, and the players, ill-at-ease with the idiom, give a patchwork performance.

In the Adagietto, the strings come to grief. The portamento style of Mahler's writing seems utterly alien to them. That, married to Dudamel's ruinously slow tempo, uncertain beat and fondness for pianissimi that sound but rarely speak, makes for an unengaging reading. The finale gets a very dashing performance. A bit too dashing. The great chorale crossbeam, so unerringly placed by Dudamel at the end of the second movement, goes for very little, and the helter-skelter playing of the coda makes the music seem silly, rather than what a more experienced band of players might make it: genuinely cook-a-hoop.

Who is DGG trying to dupe?
   

[Mark]

That's called marketing hype. It sells records*.

I've not heard much by Dudamel, but what I have heard, I liked. For one thing, the guy's got an admirable vitality which I admire.



*Referring to the way DG and others 'promote' their artists.

[Renfield]

I also found that review very accurate. However, Dudamel is a fantastically talented conductor, in my opinion: he's just not ready for something like Mahler's 5th, yet.

Take, for instance, his superb Shostakovich 10th from this year's Proms. Well-executed, impassioned, and weighty where it should be. However, this was not a "trick" piece like the Mahler 5th; it didn't have places where measure is needed, and that is where Dudamel consistently fails (between his Beethoven 5th and 7th and his Mahler 5th, that is).

But he is still a "preternaturally gifted young musician", if nothing else for the fact that he can try to tackle this repertory so early, despite the mediocre results (in my opinion).

[bhodges]

I have not yet heard his recordings, but I am hearing him twice live in the next few weeks: once with his Venezuelan ensemble at Carnegie Hall (Simon Rattle is conducting them in a second concert), and again when he conducts the New York Philharmonic.  Very much looking forward to hearing him. 

--Bruce

[sound67]

But he is still a "preternaturally gifted young musician", if nothing else for the fact that he can try to tackle this repertory so early, despite the mediocre results (in my opinion)

That doesn't excuse DGG for charging people full price for inferior recordings. If some of the proceeds went into sponsoring classical music in the developing countries, that would make sense.

Who the heck NEEDS his present recordings?

[Mark]

If some of the proceeds went into sponsoring classical music in the developing countries, that would make sense.

That's a bit rich, considering ...

[Catison]

I actually caught the last movement of the Mahler on the radio this morning.  I was amazed by how full of life the recording was.  I was very anxious to hear who the performers were.  When I heard it was Dudamel and his youth symphony, I was amazed.  I don't think I would have liked it as much if I would have known who was playing.

I still don't need another Mahler recording, and I think this performance my be spectacular initially but not after many revisits, but I do complement Dudamel.

[sound67]

When I heard it was Dudamel and his youth symphony, I was amazed.

The point is, in the field of Mahler recordings it's not competitive. Were DG a charity fund, then it would make sense to charge full price for it. But they aren't.

Thomas

[Catison]

The point is, in the field of Mahler recordings it's not competitive. Were DG a charity fund, then it would make sense to charge full price for it. But they aren't.

Thomas

But what's your point?  Are you complaining because you want it and its too expensive for you?  The solution then is to not buy it until it shows up at BRO.

[Brian]

The problem is not with Dudamel.

The problem is with Deutsche Grammophon.

If you have a hypertalented orchestra of Venezuelan youngsters, led by an equally hypertalented Venezuelan youngster, why do you have them record music by dead Germans?? If DG was recording Dudamel & Co. in Latin American/Spanish works, the results would be astounding (consider their YouTube video of the Mambo from West Side Story). What they need to do is start covering Ginastera, C. Chavez, and music like that - in other words, what they need to do is dump DG and sign with a real record company that's committed to the kind of music they would really be able to make a reputation playing.

[Iago]

If DG was recording Dudamel & Co. in Latin American/Spanish works, the results would be astounding (consider their YouTube video of the Mambo from West Side Story).

That's Latin Amertican or Spanish music??
Last time I looked, it was written by Leonard Bernstein. I "think" he was a young jewish boy from the Boston area. Wasn't he??

[hautbois]

That's Latin Amertican or Spanish music??
Last time I looked, it was written by Leonard Bernstein. I "think" he was a young jewish boy from the Boston area. Wasn't he??

That was an utterly childish and ignorant comment to make Iago. We all know what Brian meant. 

Howard

*I absolutely agree with Brian's ideas.

[Don]

That doesn't excuse DGG for charging people full price for inferior recordings. If some of the proceeds went into sponsoring classical music in the developing countries, that would make sense.

Who the heck NEEDS his present recordings?

Lighten up some - besides, nobody NEEDS any recording.

[MishaK]

The problem is not with Dudamel.

The problem is with Deutsche Grammophon.

If you have a hypertalented orchestra of Venezuelan youngsters, led by an equally hypertalented Venezuelan youngster, why do you have them record music by dead Germans?? If DG was recording Dudamel & Co. in Latin American/Spanish works, the results would be astounding (consider their YouTube video of the Mambo from West Side Story). What they need to do is start covering Ginastera, C. Chavez, and music like that - in other words, what they need to do is dump DG and sign with a real record company that's committed to the kind of music they would really be able to make a reputation playing.

I agree with the first part of this, not the second. The problem is indeed DG, not Dudamel. But the repertoire isn't the issue.

I also found that review very accurate. However, Dudamel is a fantastically talented conductor, in my opinion: he's just not ready for something like Mahler's 5th, yet.

This is plain nonsense. I heard him conduct Mahler 1 with the CSO and went back for the Tuesday concert just to make sure Saturday wasn't a one off. It was easily one of the best Mahler performances I have ever heard. It was intelligent, convincing, and very personal. Dudamel has no shortage of experience or lack of understanding for the work. I just don't think he records well in the studio. He is clearly a guy who lives off the electricity of the moment and needs a live audience around him. The DG Beethoven is so overly controlled that it sucks the life out of the performance. This is not how Dudamel sounds live. I presume the Mahler 5 suffers from the same problem (haven't heard it yet). I don't know why they don't record him live.

[Iago]

That was an utterly childish and ignorant comment to make Iago. We all know what Brian meant. 

Howard

*I absolutely agree with Brian's ideas.

My comment is neither childish, nor ignorant. Merely, factual.

[hautbois]

I agree with the first part of this, not the second. The problem is indeed DG, not Dudamel. But the repertoire isn't the issue.

This is plain nonsense. I heard him conduct Mahler 1 with the CSO and went back for the Tuesday concert just to make sure Saturday wasn't a one off. It was easily one of the best Mahler performances I have ever heard. It was intelligent, convincing, and very personal. Dudamel has no shortage of experience or lack of understanding for the work. I just don't think he records well in the studio. He is clearly a guy who lives off the electricity of the moment and needs a live audience around him. The DG Beethoven is so overly controlled that it sucks the life out of the performance. This is not how Dudamel sounds live. I presume the Mahler 5 suffers from the same problem (haven't heard it yet). I don't know why they don't record him live.

There is no doubt when it comes to Dudamel's talent and ability as a conductor. No matter how impressive the conductor though, it is simply ALMOST impossible for a non professional youth symphony to sustain the energy, intensity, and stamina necessary to pull off a giant like Mahler's 5th. Barshai's German Youth was clearly an exception, but bear in mind that the particular 'youth' orchestra had a huge portion of full time conservatory students enrolled in it. Getting through the first movement is already miraculous considering that KIDS play in Dudamel's youth band. The problem really is repertoire because i don't see any artistic value in recording ANOTHER Mahler 5th which turns out to be rather mediocre. Dudamel is a big name nowadays and there is no doubt that DG plans to make a profit out of that.

Seriously, one buys a record expecting it to sound good and have re-listening value and not because it has Dudamel's face printed all over it right? So if a record is bad (I don't believe the Mahler 5th recording is bad, it just doesn't stand out), it's bad, whoever is conducting or performing, and if it was a known fact early on, they shouldn't have released it since it won't sell and will leave a bad impression towards people who are dissapointed with it.

My point is...contrary to what i have mentioned before, it doesn't matter what repertoire they record and release, as long as it is worth buying. We have enough bad recordings in the market to throw into the GMG bin.  

Howard

[karlhenning]

I also found that review very accurate. However, Dudamel is a fantastically talented conductor, in my opinion: he's just not ready for something like Mahler's 5th, yet.

Thank you for the nuance! 

[karlhenning]

That's Latin Amertican or Spanish music??
Last time I looked, it was written by Leonard Bernstein. I "think" he was a young jewish boy from the Boston area. Wasn't he??

I believe that's right.

And I think (or, "think") that the Mambo is a Cuban musical form and dance style, and therefore the young Jewish boy from the Boston area wrote that number in the musical as Latin American, and not as Klezmer.  Didn't he??

[karlhenning]

Bernstein was born in Lawrence, which is more Lowell area, than Boston area, probably.  But call that a detail.

[karlhenning]

Bernstein did attend Boston Latin as a boy;  so "Boston area" is not a serious faux pas.