Need help with Sibelius 5

[zauberflöte]

The Sibelius 5th Symphony has been one of my absolute favorite pieces of music for years and it never fails to instill pure joy. I've got a number of recordings of it: Karajan DG, Colin Davis Boston cycle, the first Rattle, the Vanska, the Segerstam and have heard many more.
For me all of them have their positives but every single one of them falls just short.
I know this is a common condition people have when a great piece can never meet expections completely and there is alway something more to say.
The other day in my car I heard a version on the radio that absolutely bowled me over, Paavo Berglund's third recording, I think, of the piece with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe on the Finlandia label made in the late 1990s.
It's out of print now and I can't find it available from on line sources except ones that want to charge for one CD the equivalent of what six CDs would normally cost.
The Grammophone's reviewer didn't like it, thought musical points were exxageratedly underlined. That's true, but those points were exactly all the ones I don't mind hearing underlined.
Maybe I'm just jaded. I've heard the piece so many times I need something different to snap me out of any lethargy about it I may be starting to accumulate. But, does anyone know this version or have any ideas on how to acquire it affordably??  The radio station I heard it on has links on line to purchase it, but it's a dead end.

[dirkronk]

Dang, 'flute. You have EXPENSIVE tastes. I found a copy on Amazon, but they want $90 for it:

http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Symphony-Nos-5-7-Jean/dp/B000005IFY/ref=sr_1_14/102-4220592-1534517?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193344626&sr=1-14

I'll keep an eye out for more economical options for you.

Dirk

[zauberflöte]

Thanks for responding dirk.
Yeah, Amazon is one of two places I found the recording. Both are arm, leg.

[head-case]

The complete cycle is still available for less than they want for the single disc.

http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=106878299
http://www.crotchet.co.uk/3984233892.html
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//3984233892.htm

If you want it you'd better act fast.  Presumably they have no intention of making more and are losing patience before they throw the unsold stock into the grinder to make way for something they can sell.

[BorisG]

The Sibelius 5th Symphony has been one of my absolute favorite pieces of music for years and it never fails to instill pure joy. I've got a number of recordings of it: Karajan DG, Colin Davis Boston cycle, the first Rattle, the Vanska, the Segerstam and have heard many more.
For me all of them have their positives but every single one of them falls just short.

Try Karajan's 1953 and 1960, both with Philharmonia on EMI.

[Mark]

The complete cycle is still available for less than they want for the single disc.

http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=106878299
http://www.crotchet.co.uk/3984233892.html
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//3984233892.htm

Tempting, very tempting ...

[vandermolen]

I have numerous recordings but my favourite is conducted by Malcolm Sargent with the BBC Symphony Orchestra:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sargent-Conducts-Sibelius-Jean/dp/B00004THE5/ref=sr_1_8/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193350597&sr=1-8

[Drasko]

I'd like to hear Hannikainen and Kajanus.

[dirkronk]

Try Karajan's 1953 and 1960, both with Philharmonia on EMI.

Yeah, I've long enjoyed the latter of the two Karajan/Philharmonia performances, along with Rozhdestvensky (whose complete Sibelius cycle is still my fave), but haven't given up listening. Last night I put on the live Kondrashin/Concertgebouw on a Philips LP: the first movement had some gorgeous moments, but by the end of the symphony I was less thrilled with the overall interp compared to Herbie and Rozh. I'll have to look through my LPs to see if I have the Collins or Kajanus, two rather different conductors that I usually do like in Sibelius. The critic's usual darlings--Berglund's earlier work on EMI, the Davis/Boston, et al--have never quite been my personal cuppa tea. But...that's what makes horse races, as the saying goes.



Dirk

[Mr. Darcy]

I've got a number of recordings of it...and have heard many more. For me all of them have their positives but every single one of them falls just short. I know this is a common condition people have when a great piece can never meet expections completely and there is alway something more to say...

Interesting. I've generally had the opposite experience. I'm often FULLY satisified by a great piece--that's why it's great, isn't it? Or are you referring to your satisfaction with recordings of great pieces? I guess I never really thought about that--living nowhere near a symphony orchestra, chamber ensemble, or competent performer (at least, to my knowledge) and having no formal musical training, I suppose I have a hard time judging a piece of music apart from its recorded performance. That is, to me, the recorded sounds I hear through my speakers IS the piece of music itself; it's how I judge it.

Anyhow, you should be fully satisfied by the following (you can thank me later  ):

http://sonyclassical.com/music/63060/

That's Bernstein/NYPO in the 5th, BTW...

[Daverz]

Try Bernstein's Columbia recording with the NYP:

http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Complete-Symphonies-Jean/dp/B00008PW43
http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Symphonies-Nos-Romance-Strings/dp/B0000029WY

(Not suggesting that you get the single disc at the ridiculous Amazon price, but keep an eye out for it.)

If you don't mind Karajan's approach, try his EMI recordings, either with the Philharmonia or with the Berlin PO.

http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Symphonies-Nos-Karajan-Collection/dp/B0009NDKU0
http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Symphonies-Nos-Karelia-Suite/dp/B00005QHW9

From  Richard A. Kaplan's Sibeliusaurus, in the N/D 2007 Fanfare

DESERT ISLAND VERSION: Bernstein (1961). This is Sibelius's symphony in the "Eroica" key of E♭; the Lemminkäinen Suite is in the same key. Bernstein is bound to be a controversial choice, but the Fifth is a symphony he surely learned at the knee of his mentor Koussevitzky (see below). And this time he got it right: his reading is dramatic without the quirks or exaggerations that plague his versions of most of the other symphonies. The climax of the first movement (Fig. M) is wonderfully radiant, and the way he whips up the end of the movement is as exciting as hell.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED: There are more effective recordings of the Fifth than of any other symphony, so I will hone down the list to my favorites, beginning with Gibson (1959). This recording with the London Symphony was originally issued in the US on an RCA LP, coupled with the most sparkling recording of the Karelia Suite ever; it was once available on a Decca CD. It may be a bit understated, but the unfolding of the musical logic is natural and sure-handed, and the sound is terrific. Gibson made at least one other superb Sibelius LP for EMI in the 1960s. Chandos must have caught him too late in his career; his early-1980s cycle is sadly prosaic by comparison with his earlier work. Davis (1976). The first movement is broad and relaxed, but never seems too slow, even at 14:56. The Boston Symphony wind section is particularly lovely. Rattle (1987) is scrupulous and effective without any fancy stuff, although he whips up the end of the first movement the way Beecham might have in a live concert. (Curiously, Beecham never recorded the Fifth.) The recording features some top-notch playing from Birmingham's principal trumpet and the same superb sound that EMI gave Rattle on his other recordings in this cycle. Blomstedt (1989) gives a more relaxed reading of the first movement, but likewise does nothing gimmicky; he is very faithful to the score without ever becoming dull or predictable. The "Thor" theme is not quite as grand as it is in the hands of Bernstein and a few others, but the performance is convincing nonetheless. As with the other entries in this cycle, the sound has a splendid breadth and clarity. Segerstam (1991), like Davis, is leisurely in the first movement (14:53), but his superb control, internal logic and clarity, along with the richness of Chandos's sound, prevent any sense of slowness. The solo winds play beautifully. The only glitches are a few idiosyncratic gearshifts in the third movement; without them, this version might have ended up on my desert island. Vänskä (1997) is a super-high-voltage reading with probably the most exciting first-movement ending; the stretto between Figs. F and G in the second movement is also as exciting as they come. Add BIS's sonics and this is a fun, if not subtle, listening experience. Segerstam (2003) shaves a minute off his first movement, the result being beautifully paced and shaped. Segerstam is still a thoughtful, insightful, sometimes idiosyncratic performer, but is far less willful or seemingly arbitrary than he could be in his earlier cycle. The "Thor" music is really imposing, with a perfect tempo, terrific horns, and a strong enough bass line to create ideal balances. This is big-boned Segerstam (have you ever seen his picture?), with the widest gamut of moods and colors anywhere in his cycle. Further, not only is the recorded sound superb, but the Helsinki Philharmonic has clearly graduated to the ranks of the world-class orchestras since Berglund's rather thin-sounding 1980s recordings. Only a colossal increase in tempo in the last 16 measures, where Sibelius calls for Un pochettino stretto, keeps this one off the island.

HISTORIC AND MEMORABLE: Koussevitzky (1936) was the standard version of this symphony into the 1950s. Ormandy (1954), coupled with the Fourth discussed above, is committed and compelling; the first-movement stretto is beautifully calibrated and builds a huge amount of momentum without ever being obvious or crass.

[johnQpublic]

Yep, the Karajan/Philharmonia from the early 60's is my favorite

[Hector]

Try Vanska's 'Original Version' on BIS.

Karajan never could get those final chords right. Shame, really.

[zauberflöte]

Thanks for all the help, though now I'm more confused than ever. 
I've heard the Karajans. Like them a lot, but a little let down by the ending of the third movement, which is one of the reasons I went nuts over the later Berglund, which slows to the point of ridiculousness. I'm not sure I could live with it forever as a favorite but it was overwhelming when I heard it the one time.
Segerstam's would be a favorite but he speeds up so much in that big finale  --much more, even, than Karajan -- he loses me even if the musical architecture of those last pages has never been clearer.
I've heard the Kajanus. Liked it but I don't think I need to own it.
I'm going to revisit the Vanska.
The recommended Bernstein sounded great in the sample I heard, especially the first movement, though it may be more Bernstein than Sibelius. That doesn't really matter.
So now I may get the Bernstein and the complete set of the Berglund. That wasn't quite what I set out to do when I started this post but, you know? things happen.

[Mark]

The recommended Bernstein sounded great in the sample I heard, especially the first movement, though it may be more Bernstein than Sibelius.

Ain't that the truth. It's one of the reasons I don't rate Bernstein's cycle. The other is that I don't rate Bernstein.

[Catison]

I'm not sure I could live with it forever as a favorite but it was overwhelming when I heard it the one time.

You won't like it as much later.  Maybe the recording you are after is the one you heard on the radio that day.  Cherish that experience, because that is  what this music is all about.  I doubt finding that CD will bring back that moment.

Just a suggestion.

And for the record, I really like Vanska.

[zauberflöte]

You won't like it as much later.  Maybe the recording you are after is the one you heard on the radio that day.  Cherish that experience, because that is  what this music is all about.  I doubt finding that CD will bring back that moment.

I suspect, Catison, you are correct.

[mjwal]

It's one of my favourite works, too, and apart from the LP version which imprinted me in my teens - after hearing the work for the first time at a concert conducted by Basil Cameron, who knew Sibelius personally - I have been most impressed recently by a) Ole Schmidt + Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, a SACD hybrid on Membran, very cheap (+ The Swan & Valse Triste b) Akeo Watanabe + Japan Philharmonic SO on Denon (coupled with Symphonies #1, 2, 7 plus The Swan & Valse Triste) - also a bargain. - I possess two Karajan versions, neither of which strikes me as idiomatic or convincing, Koussevitsky leaves me cold too, ditto Rattle + Philharmonia despite its reputation. I had the fine Ormandy + Philadelphia on RCA LP, which replaced the older "imprint" recording on Decca Ace of Clubs - like a fool I gave them both away at some point, like a number of other irreplaceable LPs. I've never tried Bernstein - perhaps I should, his Pohjola's Daughter is very exciting if a bit unrefined. The Barbirolli is so-so.
Oh, the version I started with was Erik Tuxen + Danish RSO. I found the last movement free on the net a while ago: it is as great as I remember. There are people desperately looking for this LP on the web; all of Tuxen's work, not just his Nielsen symphonies (Dutton) should be digitized asap.

[Drasko]

Oh, the version I started with was Erik Tuxen + Danish RSO. I found the last movement free on the net a while ago: it is as great as I remember. There are people desperately looking for this LP on the web; all of Tuxen's work, not just his Nielsen symphonies (Dutton) should be digitized asap.

LP transfer showed up on rmcr just few days ago, I haven't downloaded it so have no idea what's the transfer quality but here it is:

http://rapidshare.com/files/65564902/Sibelius_Symphony_No_5_Danish_State_R_S_O_E_Tuxwn.zip

[mr_espansiva]

The Sibelius 5th Symphony has been one of my absolute favorite pieces of music for years and it never fails to instill pure joy. I've got a number of recordings of it: Karajan DG, Colin Davis Boston cycle, the first Rattle, the Vanska, the Segerstam and have heard many more.
For me all of them have their positives but every single one of them falls just short.

I've just re-read this extract because I was amazed that you thought the Rattle falls short - and then I realised you were talking about his 1st recording, the one that was coupled with Night Ride and Sunrise. I have the second recording coupled with Kennedy's interpretation of the Violin Concerto and I have not heard better. The transition between the old 1st and 2nd movements is overwhelming and the second movement is played to perfection (IMHO of course). If you haven't heard it, I would suggest you try it out.

I have recording by Oramo, Karajan (1965), Davis (Boston), Ashkenazy, Ehrling and the Vanska and Rattle knocks them all into a cocked hat. Having said that, I would like to hear the Berglund and many other of the recommendations listed and I am always listening with open ears.

BTW, my shop has a pristine copy of the Ehrling set on Finlandia for sale (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260159866128). Offers welcome!