Charles Tournemire 1870-1939

[Hector]

In the case of Segerstam and Rattle, honestly, I wouldn't think - or hope - so. My hunch for a Tournemire revival would rather veer in the direction of the fine Timpani label - whoever they assign to the job. Theirs is just the kind of product I'd rush to buy.

I suggested them because of their recordings of Koechlin and Messiaen, which are impressive.

I hope not Timpani as they are premium price. Perhaps CPO, Naxos or one of the British independents will revive the composer.

[The new erato]

I've looked keenly for Timpani offers the last few years. Moreover, many of their most interesting discs are in sets which make them above the taxfree limit for imports into Norway, meaning VAT + a cumbersome payment procedure with additional handling fees to be paid. The Honegger 4 CD set of Chamber Music, the Pierne doubles, they all tend to fall by the wayside becaause of this. One day; however.......................

[Hector]

I've looked keenly for Timpani offers the last few years. Moreover, many of their most interesting discs are in sets which make them above the taxfree limit for imports into Norway, meaning VAT + a cumbersome payment procedure with additional handling fees to be paid. The Honegger 4 CD set of Chamber Music, the Pierne doubles, they all tend to fall by the wayside becaause of this. One day; however.......................

You missed the sale at MDT earlier in the year when I bought a batch including Jongen, Pierne and Auric.

[The new erato]

You missed the sale at MDT earlier in the year when I bought a batch including Jongen, Pierne and Auric.

I did?   

Well; the upside is that that means Timpani aren't allergic to special offers.

[Mirror Image]

Indeed,not that much is known about this composer. Last year I found a little book in Paris :Pascal Ianco : Charles Tournemire ou le mythe de Tristan.

Mélophiles ; Editions Papillon  ISBN 2 9400310 06 8    Route d'Annecy 46    1256 Drize / Genève / Switzerland  (2001)

It gives a good portrait of a rather strange, difficult, catholic artist ...who felt misunderstood for most of his life. He could be extremely cruel : he really despised Stravinsky, Milhaud and Ravel ( ...a little artiste,with small (unhealthy) ideas,second rate ideas, no God, etc etc.) Vierne : my enemy for 45 years! Dupré: I think he is crazy...

Ianco writes : Tournemire has a complex personality : he is bitter, warm, unjust,friendly,spiteful,susceptible,...and without pity!

Apart from the organworks and symphonies, he leaves several huge operas and oratorios that - as far as I know- never have been performed.
Two early works:
Chryséis - drame antique ( Les dieux sont morts) (1912)
Nittétis ,tragédie lyrique ( 1907)

Seven (very large scale) opera-oratorios:
Saint François d'Assise (1923)
Don Quichotte (1924)
Faust (1925) - these three works form op.52

La légende de Tristan (1926) op. 53
La quête du Saint Graal ((1927) op.54

l'Apocalypse de Saint Jean op 63 (1933-36)

La douloureuse passion du Christ for reciters,chorus,large organ and orchestra op . 72 ( 1936-37)

In October 1939 Tournemire disappears in the woods near Arcachon - while fleeing for the War....On November 4th his body is found in ( or next to...) a little boat. Until today it remains unclear if he committed suicide or had an accident.
The last years of his life were burdened by financial problems, bad health and a growing feeling of insecurity : WW2!

Indeed, a strange but fascinating figure.


Peter

He despised Stravinsky, Milhaud, and Ravel? Three of my favorite composers. Excellent! Thanks for this very informative post. I've heard some of his music via YouTube and NML and let me it's dreamy, ethereal, otherworldly, and right up my alley.

[cilgwyn]

Hooray,a 'new' (!) Tournemire post at last. Well,sort of. I'm not so 'into' his organ music (can't afford it!),but I've got all his symphonies,including every one of the superior Auvidis Valois releases,and they get regular airings on my cd player,so.in my humble opinion,they must have something going for them! I just wish a record label like Timpani or Chandos would show some interest in them,or/and maybe some of his numerous unrecorded works. I personally find his music very impressive & I concur with a fellow forum user here who I seem to recall,described the Tournemire symphonies as having a 'slumbering power' (in the best possible way,I hasten to add!).
Anyway,Tournemire must wait a little longer,I'm off to the shop....................................

[Mirror Image]

Hooray,a 'new' (!) Tournemire post at last. Well,sort of. I'm not so 'into' his organ music (can't afford it!),but I've got all his symphonies,including every one of the superior Auvidis Valois releases,and they get regular airings on my cd player,so.in my humble opinion,they must have something going for them! I just wish a record label like Timpani or Chandos would show some interest in them,or/and maybe some of his numerous unrecorded works. I personally find his music very impressive & I concur with a fellow forum user here who I seem to recall,described the Tournemire symphonies as having a 'slumbering power' (in the best possible way,I hasten to add!).
Anyway,Tournemire must wait a little longer,I'm off to the shop....................................

A "slumbering power"? This is an interesting description. Tournemire seems to be very much, to use a phrase that had been used before here, on the fringes for most of his composing life. I think this solitary, loner personality is interesting and makes some fascinating parallels to one of my other favorite classical loners: Charles Koechlin.

[cilgwyn]

I think Tournemire is probably just as interesting as some of his better known but similarly neglected contemporaries. The symphonies in particular need some really good recordings,like the Magnard and Ropartz cycles have had the good fortune to receive,in order to raise their profile amongst the 'cd' buying public. The trouble is interest, at present,as far as I can make out,is near zero. Yet,I DO think he's worth some record label's time and expense. Havergal Brian is another comparison that springs to mind. Huge,ambitious symphonies like the Sixth and Seventh,the Sixth involving choirs and a soloist and massive Opera/ oratorio's that Tournemire seems to have composed with little prospect of personal gain or even,in many instances,any real hope of a performance of any kind. In this day and age of fame hungry reality show contestants and shallow as s*** celebs you have to admire people like that that. (Well,actually you don't,but I do!).

[Mirror Image]

I think Tournemire is probably just as interesting as some of his better known but similarly neglected contemporaries. The symphonies in particular need some really good recordings,like the Magnard and Ropartz cycles have had the good fortune to receive,in order to raise their profile amongst the 'cd' buying public. The trouble is interest, at present,as far as I can make out,is near zero. Yet,I DO think he's worth some record label's time and expense. Havergal Brian is another comparison that springs to mind. Huge,ambitious symphonies like the Sixth and Seventh,the Sixth involving choirs and a soloist and massive Opera/ oratorio's that Tournemire seems to have composed with little prospect of personal gain or even,in many instances,any real hope of a performance of any kind. In this day and age of fame hungry reality show contestants and shallow as s*** celebs you have to admire people like that that. (Well,actually you don't,but I do!).

What attracted me to Tournemire was his 3rd symphony, which I heard via YouTube. I was captivated from start to finish. The orchestral colors and the slow building climaxes. I'm sure his music could be better served by a major orchestra but we're lucky we have what we have.

[Mirror Image]

Tournemire: Symphony No. 3 "Moscow 1913"

Movement 1:

http://www.youtube.com/v/gf7SZkFC49Y

Movement 2:

http://www.youtube.com/v/FZF47YLalR8

Movement 3:

http://www.youtube.com/v/omMhYhE-ClA&feature=related

Movement 4:

http://www.youtube.com/v/22AcAXjsHPc&feature=related

[cilgwyn]

Yes and no! You only have to think about what record labels like Chandos,Hyperion,Timpani or Dutton have done in increasing interest in composers like Bantock,Scott,Ropartz,Bowen and some other composers I could name. While I'm sure you would be quite pleased to have the Marco Polo recordings of Koechlin's 'Le buisson ardent' and 'The Jungle Book' if there was no alternative, It's pretty obvious from your postings which recordings you prefer & that as far as Koechlin is concerned,like Oliver Twist, you want MORE!  In that respect,I think I've got just as much right to moan about the absence of a superior alternative to my Tournemire recordings as you have! (End of rant! And no offence intended!)
Personally,I feel the Marco Polo recordings are enjoyable enough,in their own rough and ready way;and quite frankly,how many of the people who keep criticising them have heard them in any other form? Last night I loaded my Tournemire symphonies into my 5 cd changer (the acid test) and I only turned the player off because I had to go to bed! I think they are wonderful symphonies. No 3 is marvellous,I agree;but I am also very keen on No 4,which has some wonderful evocative effects which make me feel that Tournemire really was a superb orchestrator with a tremendous ear for rich and unusual sonorities. In fact,I love them all & may just be the only Tournemire symphony fan on the planet (Any more out there?)
On the plus side,I managed to get all the Auvidis Valois releases at reasonable prices (in the end!),I'm pretty sure some record label WILL eventually get around to them,and,erm.......thank you Marco Polo! And thanks for your reply!!!

NB: Composers like Koechlin,Tournemire,Ropartz and Magnard really do bring home the fact that there is so much more to French music than Ravel and Debussy. Also,contrary to received opinion,the French DID write allot of very good symphonies.

[cilgwyn]

Stop Press: I've finally located my favourite tea mug.

 

[Mirror Image]

Yes and no! You only have to think about what record labels like Chandos,Hyperion,Timpani or Dutton have done in increasing interest in composers like Bantock,Scott,Ropartz,Bowen and some other composers I could name. While I'm sure you would be quite pleased to have the Marco Polo recordings of Koechlin's 'Le buisson ardent' and 'The Jungle Book' if there was no alternative, It's pretty obvious from your postings which recordings you prefer & that as far as Koechlin is concerned,like Oliver Twist, you want MORE!  In that respect,I think I've got just as much right to moan about the absence of a superior alternative to my Tournemire recordings as you have! (End of rant! And no offence intended!)
Personally,I feel the Marco Polo recordings are enjoyable enough,in their own rough and ready way;and quite frankly,how many of the people who keep criticising them have heard them in any other form? Last night I loaded my Tournemire symphonies into my 5 cd changer (the acid test) and I only turned the player off because I had to go to bed! I think they are wonderful symphonies. No 3 is marvellous,I agree;but I am also very keen on No 4,which has some wonderful evocative effects which make me feel that Tournemire really was a superb orchestrator with a tremendous ear for rich and unusual sonorities. In fact,I love them all & may just be the only Tournemire symphony fan on the planet (Any more out there?)
On the plus side,I managed to get all the Auvidis Valois releases at reasonable prices (in the end!),I'm pretty sure some record label WILL eventually get around to them,and,erm.......thank you Marco Polo! And thanks for your reply!!!

NB: Composers like Koechlin,Tournemire,Ropartz and Magnard really do bring home the fact that there is so much more to French music than Ravel and Debussy. Also,contrary to received opinion,the French DID write allot of very good symphonies.

Oh, I agree that Tournemire could be better served by a major orchestra with a label like Chandos or even some releases on BIS or Harmonia Mundi. We're very fortunate to have multiple recordings of some of Koechlin's music (i. e. Jungle Book being twice in complete form and symphonic poems once).

Yes, there is more to 20th Century French than Ravel and Debussy. Composers like Ropartz and Tournemire carried on Cesar Franck school of thought, which d'Indy adapted to his own music as well.

[cilgwyn]

Oops! I really should have included D'indy. Still,there is plenty of hope. Only a few years ago the only D'indy cd's really were mainly ancient old emi pathe ones & I remember the prices sellers were asking for his Second Symphony. Ropartz was represented by the emi recording of the third. Things have really moved on since then. It's quite astonishing really. You never know what the 'record labels' are going to bring out next!
I notice that Timpani have recorded the two symphonies of Maurice Emmanuel. Only a while ago,it seems,I was mulling over whether to buy the only recordings available,on good old 'Marco Polo'. Now there's actually some choice & if I DO buy his symhonies I think I know which recording I'll spend my 'dough' on.

[cilgwyn]

33 Replies so far. That's pretty good going for Tournemire! Interest is definately warming up.....a bit,anyway!

Going down actually! Perhaps Father Christmas will bring me 'Le Orgue Mystique',then I'll have something more substantial to add.
What about it Santa?
Okay!

[5against4]

Just noticed this thread - i'm so glad there's one devoted to Tournemire, far & away one of my favourite composers.

Incidentally, i arranged six pieces from L'Orgue Mystique for chamber orchestra last year & am currently working on a second set. Possible first performance in December.

[cilgwyn]

The more interest the better. I hope to see this thread,eventually,get even longer. Some fine new recordings would definately help. Arranging Tournemire's organ music for chamber orchestra sounds an interesting idea. Such a massive work. I'm suprised you knew where to start!

[5against4]

The more interest the better. I hope to see this thread,eventually,get even longer. Some fine new recordings would definately help. Arranging Tournemire's organ music for chamber orchestra sounds an interesting idea. Such a massive work. I'm suprised you knew where to start!

The arrangements have felt second nature; i'm not trying to deviate from Tournemire's material, merely orchestrate it so more people can hear it. So few organists bother to play Tournemire (who knows why?!), & when they do it's usually just the flashy final movements. So as well as being a bit of recreation for me (a nice aside to composing), it's also with the earnest hope that more people might get to hear this stuff.

L'Ensemble Mystique (Book One) - as i unimaginatively called it - was premièred in May last year in Birmingham, by my ensemble Interrobang, which had to expand considerably for the occasion (27 players in all)! Each of the six movements was preceded by the original plainsong on which Tournemire's material was based, chanted by a small group of singers, which seemed a nice way to contextualise the music. Book Two is nearly finished, & may be premièred in December, again in Birmingham. More info on this as & when...

[Lilas Pastia]

L'Ensemble mystique ? Do you mean L'Orgue mystique by any chance? Unless it's a portion of Tournemire's corpus I haven't explored so far.

[EDIT: I realize L'Ensemble mystique is 5against4' name for his arrangement of Tournemire's L'Orgue mystique. Sorry, I should have caught that    ]

All his symphonies are worth exploring and I definitely endorse the opinion they should be given modern recordings. I'd rather have Timpani than Chandos give them a go, though. More transparent, luminous, slightly less 'solid' playing (Luxembourg vs english orchestras), and quietly realistic engineering vs the more glamorous Chandos treatment).

Tournemire's music has a very elusive quality. It doesn't lack shape or 'face', but his language is mostly spoken in soft tones, and musical speach is often quiet, even murmuring. The more agitated passages are not necessarily  loud. He reminds me of a french Delius, with the occasional bracing waft of Bax (two composers I love inordinately).

I haven't been disppointed by a single work of his.

[cilgwyn]

Hooray,Tournemire's back! Ahem,I must admit I love his symphonies. I think they are so underrated & I just wish some really top notch record label,orchestra and conductor would record a complete cycle.
Not so familiar with the organ works I'm afraid,(tut,tut!),but the 'magnum opus' mentioned above IS a bit of a 'mortgage' job! Maybe,I will settle for some excerpts when I can.
His chamber music is supposed to be good,too.