Charles Tournemire 1870-1939

[Dundonnell]

Another French symphonist worth mentioning(If he hasn't been already?) is the Breton Paul Le Flem who wrote four symphonies and lived to the grand old age of 103. He only stopped composing at the age of 95

I know his First and Fourth which are impressive works.

[cilgwyn]

Tournemire sixth strikes me as a bit of a sleeper,really. Not that I mean it sends you to sleep,rather it seems to be the kind of work that,given the right conductor and orchestra,and possibly the right time and place,might suddenly receive the kind of attention such a strange and arresting work deserves. Like Havergal Brian's Gothic symphony,it's a massive work (although,not quite!) and I can imagine that,like the Gothic,there will be room for the usual debate as to whether it actually all 'hangs together' or not. One things for sure,there's certainly an original mind at work (although,not in the epoch making Stravinsky sense) and there's certainly a good deal that lingers in the mind afterwards.

Tournemire's Seventh,another blockbuster,is a phenomenally strange work. I keep thinking it's some kind of strange,eccentric masterpiece;but of course it isn't and it can't be,I suppose,otherwise it would have been performed more often. Also,while allot if it really grabs you,other parts of it seem less interesting,and even more importantly it seems more like a sequence of gigantic tone poems than a true symphony. Not that I mind,particularly,but the critics will! Having said that,I really would be prepared,perhaps justifiably,to give this very strange,slightly unsettling block buster the benefit of the doubt;as I really do think,as with the sixth,this is the kind of neglected work whose full glories have yet to be revealed by a really first rate recording. I would like to point out,that I have all the AV & Marco Polo recordings of these works.

Having mentioned Chandos as ideal canditates for a Tournemire cycle,I feel on second thoughts that Timpani would be a better choice. No doubt Chandos would produce their usual sonic spectaculars,but it has to be said that Tournemire's orchestration,individual and striking as it is,needs all the clarity it can get.

Finally,I would like to put in another word for the Fourth,which has some striking effects & remains a personal favourite.

Picked these nice paragraphs up from Dundonnell,'master poster'. A distinct improvement to my,sometimes,inept posting. Thanks!
(I will come back to you on Le Flem).

[cilgwyn]

By dinasman at 2011-09-18
And here's my plug for the underrated Fourth,which is underrated even for a Tournemire symphony! Some of the orchestral effects Tournemire evokes in this symphony,are truly marvellous (in my humble opinion). I can only try to imagine what they could sound like in a really first rate performance. This performance is supposed to be pretty lousy,but Tournemire's inspiration still gets through,just about!

[cilgwyn]

Regarding Le Flem. The above cd has been announced,by Timpani,for release on September 29th.
As a further piece of good news,apparently,their long anticipated recording of the Ropartz Symphony No 3 be released in October.
I hope I have got all these facts rights as I don't speak French & the Google translation thingummy of the Timpani site is pretty terrible.

[Lilas Pastia]

Timpani is doing francophile music lovers strerling service. Witness the superb Gaubert series - 3 discs I know of so far. Yummy stuff.

[vandermolen]

Thought I'd revive this languishing thread as I have been greatly enjoying the approachable and moving Symphony 3 'Moscow' (1913 ) which features lots of bell-like resonances and memorable tunes. It has one of my favourite openings to a symphony. If you want to sample one Tournemire symphony I'd recommend No.3.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqmk29J8wAQ

[Christo]

Thought I'd revive this languishing thread as I have been greatly enjoying the approachable and moving Symphony 3 'Moscow' (1913 ) which features lots of bell-like resonances and memorable tunes. It has one of my favourite openings to a symphony. If you want to sample one Tournemire symphony I'd recommend No.3.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqmk29J8wAQ

Posts like this often cost me a lot of time.  Have been playing the 'Moscow' symphony repeatedly, in the only recording I have, by our good neighbours from the birth place of César Franck:

[vandermolen]

Posts like this often cost me a lot of time.  Have been playing the 'Moscow' symphony repeatedly, in the only recording I have, by our good neighbours from the birth place of César Franck:

I always wondered if there was another recording of this fine work - now I know! Thank you.

[cilgwyn]

I've got this one too. The Auvidis Valois performance is supposed to be finer,and better recorded. That said,the Marco Polo cd is supposed to be the best of the cycle. I have the cd too,and the performances have atmosphere and seem okay to me. The remainder are more variable!! Tournemire's Seventh is a huge work. I have listened to it on several occasions. It is certainly intriguing. It starts off well,and shares that odd timeless quality with the other Tournemire symphonies. Unfortunately,to my ears,the inspiration seems uneven and the whole edifice feels more like a sequence of big tone poems. I don't feel the momentum that I need in a symphonic work,especially on a scale like that. That said,it has it's moments and there is a mysterious,enigmatic,archaic quality to the music which lingers in the mind,even if some of the ideas themselves aren't as memorable as your curiosity feels they should be. A less dry acoustic would help,I think. It needs a really first class recording.

The third is a wonderful symphony. I also like the eighth allot. I think they are both very fine and it is sad that they don't get more attention. They deserve it. Tournemire has his own sound world,and,at it's best,I find it quite absorbing.
I also like his Fifth and Sixth symphonies and the Fourth has some wonderful moments,but the performance and recording is absolutely dire. Probably the worst in the series. I believe the only symphony I haven't responded positively to,by Tournemire,is his Second symphony,which seems to be,by far,the weakes of the lot,in terms of inspiration......although again,a terrible recording!! Tournemire's symphonies deserve allot better! If only a recording label was interested!

[Mirror Image]

I recall parts of Symphony No. 3 'Moscow' but can't remember anything else about any of Tournemire's music.

[vandermolen]

Thanks for the interesting responses. I only have the Marco Polo version of Symphony 3 ( the other version is a bit expensive). I will listen again to the other symphonies and report back in due course. 

[cilgwyn]

After reading MI's response I just had to listen to Tournemire again. I chose Symphonies 3,5 & 8;programing them in,so I could concentrate on those works. Anyway,I have to say I really enjoyed them. Someone on the internet somewhere refers to Tournemire as a "romantic mystic" and I think I know what he means. Listening to this music,I do get a feeling of the remote past and tales of days gone by. Also cathedrals and old churches,but not in a purely religious sense. Passages from Brian's Gothic Symphony make an interesting parallel. There is the same sense of awe and mystery. I suppose a lack of truly memorable themes,tunes or motifs could be a factor in the neglect of these symphonies. Strong on atmosphere and beautifully orchestrated in a very French kind of way.....but I don't hear any real melodies or themes in my mind after I stop listening,just a feeling of spending time in some strange romantic hinterland of the mind;very possibly inhabited by the Court of King Arthur and St Joan,amongst others! Oh,and lots of beautiful,romantic landscapes,of course! They are also,big,ambitious works to put on;which doesn't help. Composers do need to compose what they hear in their heads,even if there is little prospect of a performance and it definitely won't pay the bills! The Auvidis Valois performances are pretty good;but I do feel a symphony like Tournemire's Fifth needs more sweep,lush strings,blazing horns and room to breathe!
(Magnard and Ropartz are two other French composers I could comfortably describe as "romantic mystics". Nice term!)

Anyway,each to his own,eh?!! I think I'll put on No1,later,and then maybe brave the truly horrendous performance of No4!! If you like these symphonies,the music just about comes through. Nice to see some very positive posts about these symphonies elsewhere on the internet. Enthusiastic reviews in Gramophone (before the subscriber thingummy pops up) and by jove,that's where I read that "romantic mystic",thing?! (I think?!) And someone who obviously loves his Tournemire symphonies has posted some very enthusiastic reviews on Amazon.

You've really got me going here with your Tournemire "bump",vandermolen!

[vandermolen]

After reading MI's response I just had to listen to Tournemire again. I chose Symphonies 3,5 & 8;programing them in,so I could concentrate on those works. Anyway,I have to say I really enjoyed them. Someone on the internet somewhere refers to Tournemire as a "romantic mystic" and I think I know what he means. Listening to this music,I do get a feeling of the remote past and tales of days gone by. Also cathedrals and old churches,but not in a purely religious sense. Passages from Brian's Gothic Symphony make an interesting parallel. There is the same sense of awe and mystery. I suppose a lack of truly memorable themes,tunes or motifs could be a factor in the neglect of these symphonies. Strong on atmosphere and beautifully orchestrated in a very French kind of way.....but I don't hear any real melodies or themes in my mind after I stop listening,just a feeling of spending time in some strange romantic hinterland of the mind;very possibly inhabited by the Court of King Arthur and St Joan,amongst others! Oh,and lots of beautiful,romantic landscapes,of course! They are also,big,ambitious works to put on;which doesn't help. Composers do need to compose what they hear in their heads,even if there is little prospect of a performance and it definitely won't pay the bills! The Auvidis Valois performances are pretty good;but I do feel a symphony like Tournemire's Fifth needs more sweep,lush strings,blazing horns and room to breathe!
(Magnard and Ropartz are two other French composers I could comfortably describe as "romantic mystics". Nice term!)

Anyway,each to his own,eh?!! I think I'll put on No1,later,and then maybe brave the truly horrendous performance of No4!! If you like these symphonies,the music just about comes through. Nice to see some very positive posts about these symphonies elsewhere on the internet. Enthusiastic reviews in Gramophone (before the subscriber thingummy pops up) and by jove,that's where I read that "romantic mystic",thing?! (I think?!) And someone who obviously loves his Tournemire symphonies has posted some very enthusiastic reviews on Amazon.

You've really got me going here with your Tournemire "bump",vandermolen!

And I am very pleased to hear it! Happy listening. 

[Belcher]

Tournemire is one of my favorite personalities because of his great work and innovation in the industry. I truly follow his work and consider my self the fan no 1.

[Mirror Image]

Tournemire is one of my favorite personalities because of his great work and innovation in the industry. I truly follow his work and consider my self the fan no 1.

Never seen you before on here, Belcher, but could you please explain, for my own lack of understanding, what Tournemire innovated?

[vandermolen]

I am still hooked on Symphony 3 'Moscow' but am enjoying No. 8 'The Triumph of Death' on the same Marco Polo CD. I never knew that he was found dead in a bog in 1939:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Charles-Tournemire/Composer/12204-1

[cilgwyn]

I'm not going to turn you on to his other symphonies,am I?!!

Regarding Tournemire's death. Being a lowbrow sort,I did (unfortunately) initially picture another kind of "bog",when I saw your post.

http://www.examiner.com/article/remembering-judy-garland-1922-1969-liza-s-mom-died-on-the-toilet-voiding-herself-of-life

And incidentally,what a ghastly website. Hopefully,you've never been morbid enough to peruse the pages of Find a Death!!
Best not to think about this sort of thing when you're viewing The Wizard of Oz!! (A childhood favourite of my late mother,so it does strike a chord!)

[cilgwyn]

I am still hooked on Symphony 3 'Moscow' but am enjoying No. 8 'The Triumph of Death' on the same Marco Polo CD. I never knew that he was found dead in a bog in 1939:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Charles-Tournemire/Composer/12204-1

Those documents will be unsealed this year,then?!!

[Mirror Image]

I wonder if Belcher is going to return? I would be curious to know his/her reasons for claiming Tournemire was an innovator. Again, this purely out of curiosity more than anything else.

[cilgwyn]

He is described as an innovator here:

http://www.hetorgel.nl/e1999-28.htm

He is known more for his organ music these days,of course. L'Orgue Mystique,in particular,which fills up allot of cd's....although,I believe an abridged edition has been available. Not high on my list of cd's I want,I'm afraid. I could be missing out on something very interesting,of course?! I'm not really into organ music,though. Not that I hate it! I actually quite like the sound of a cathdral organ....but cd's of it?!! I knew someone who was into it,once. I remember buying cd's of Vierne and Widor......unfortunately,after he disappeared off somewhere (I know not where!) the interest seemed to go along with him!