The Art of Wilhelm Furtwängler

[not edward]

But false dichotomies are such fun!

[George]

Could I have some input about the list of recommended recordings on the Furtwangler Society site? Do you agree with their choices? I've posted it below:

The selection hereunder is evidently subjective.  In several cases the criterion of availability has excluded more significant versions.  When several versions are suggested they are proposed in a decreasing order of preference.  It is usually preferable to choose the performances dating from 1940-45 which are particularly impressive.  In 2003, DG has reissued its stock of boxed sets of 10 CDs devoted to this period (now 9 CDs) but without doing any remastering. Same happened for their recent 6 CD boxes (2003 and 2004).
When we have different major recordings of a single work, we quote all of them. Those for which we have a slight preference for are being listed first.
The records released by the Wilhelm Furtwängler Society (SWF), the Wilhelm Furtwängler Gesellschaft (WFG), the Wilhelm Furtwängler Centre of Japan (WFCJ) and the Wilhelm Furtwängler Society of Japan (WFSJ) are mentioned, as those which are available only from one recording company. Records published by SWF, as well as WFG, WFCJ, WFSJ, Orfeo, Venezia and Tahra are available for members of our Society, see our CDs page.

- Philippe Leduc, Chairman, 2005


Bartòk
  Violin Concerto n°2
     1953, Philharmonia  Orchestra, soloist Y. Menuhin (EMI)


Beethoven
  Coriolan
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Egmont
     1947 (27.V), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Leonore II
     1949, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°1
     1952, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
     1954, Süddeutsche Rundfunk Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°3
     1944, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra), the best version
     1952 (7.XII), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)
     1950 (20.VI), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra  (Tahra)
     1952 (26-27.XI), Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
  Symphony n°4
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
     1952, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
     1953, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
     1950, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)*
  Symphony n°5
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, an interpretation full of tension, a perfect example
              of Furtwängler's art of conducting (Tahra)
     1954 (23.V), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)
     1947 (27.V), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°6
     1944, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
     1943, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (Preiser, out of print)
     1952, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
     1954 (23.V), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)
  Symphony n°7
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, the reference recording ever of the 7th Symphony (SWF)
     1950, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)*
     1953, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (WFG)
  Symphony n°8
     1953, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (WFG)
  Symphony n°9
     1942, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, an interpretation with incredible tension (SWF, Tahra)
     1954, Philharmonia  Orchestra, Lucerne, a beautiful concert, with excellent sound (Tahra)
     1951, Bayreuth Festival Orchestra, Bayreuth (Tahra, Naxos, EMI)
     1937, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (WFCJ)*
  Piano concerto n°5
     1951, Philharmonia  Orchestra, soloist Edwin Fischer (EMI)
  Violin Concerto
     1947, Philharmonia  Orchestra, Lucerne, soloist Y. Menuhin (Testament)
  Fidelio
     1950, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Salzburg, soloists K. Flagstad, J. Patzak,
              J. Greindl etc. (EMI)
     1953, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Vienna, live, soloists M.Mödl, W.Windgassen,
              G.Frick etc. (Naxos, Andante)
  Check out our Beethoven page for complete information on recordings of works by Beethoven.



Brahms
  Symphony n°1
     1951, Nordeutsche Rundfunk Orchestra (Tahra, SWF)
     1952 (10.II), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF, DG)
     1945, last movement, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)*
  Symphony n°2
     1945, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF, DG)
     1952, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF, EMI)
  Symphony n°3
     1949, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
  Symphony n°4
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra, SWF)
     1948 (24.X), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
  Violin Concerto
     1949, Lucerne Festival Orchestra, soloist Y. Menuhin (EMI)
  Piano concerto n°2
     1942, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, soloist E. Fischer (Testament)
  Double Concerto
     1952, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, soloists A. Boskovsky et E. Brabec (EMI)
     1949, Lucerne Festival Orchestra, soloists W.Schneiderhan and E.Mainardi (WFCJ)*
  Variations on a Haydn theme
     1951, Nordeutsche Rundfunk Orchestra (Tahra, SWF)*



Bruckner
  Symphony n°4
     1951, Munich, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)
     1951, Stuttgart, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (WFCJ)*
  Symphony n°5
     1942, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (DG)
  Symphony n°6 (incomplete)
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°7
     1949, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
     1942 (adagio), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra, SWF)
     1951, Rome, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)*
  Symphony n°8
     1944, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)
     1949, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Testament)
  Symphony n°9
     1944, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, an outstanding interpretation (SWF)



Franck
  Symphony
     1945, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)



Haydn
  Symphony n°88
     1951, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF, Tahra, WFHC, Orfeo)
  Symphony n°94
     1951, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)


Liszt
  The Preludes
     1954, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)


Mahler
  Lieder eines Farhenden Gesellen
     1952, Philharmonia  Orchestra, soloist D. Fischer-Dieskau (EMI)


Mendelssohn
  Violin concerto
     1952, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, soloist Y.Menuhin (Naxos, EMI)*
  The Hebrides, overture
     1930, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)*


Mozart
  Serenade for 13 woodwind instruments
     1947 (11.XI, 3.XII), soloists of Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°39
     1944, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°40
     1948, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
  Die Zauberflöte
     1951, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, soloists I. Seefried, A. Dermota, E. Kunz,
              W. Lipp, P. Schoeffler etc. (EMI)
  Don Giovanni
     1953, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, soloists C. Siepi, O. Edelmann,
              E. Schwartzkopf, E. Grümmer, A. Dermota etc. (Orfeo)*
     1954, Orchestre Philharmonique de Vienne, solistes C. Siepi, Deszö Ernster,
              Lisa della Casa, E. Grümmer, A. Dermota etc. (DVD DG)*
     1954, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, soloists C. Siepi, O. Edelmann,
              E. Schwartzkopf, E. Grümmer, A. Dermota etc. (WFSJ, EMI)


Schubert
  Symphony n°8
     1950, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
     1954, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)
  Symphony n°9
     1942, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)


Schumann
  Symphony n°1
     1951, Munich, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)
  Symphony n°4
     1953 (14.V), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra, WFHC)
  Cello concerto (last movement)
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, soloist P. Fournier (Tahra)


Sibelius
  En Saga
     1943, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)


R. Strauss
  Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Death and Transfiguration
     1954 et 1950, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (EMI)
  Metamorphoses
     1947, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)


Tchaikovsky
Symphony n°4
     1951, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra)*
  Symphony n°6 "Pathetic"
     1938, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Tahra, Naxos)


Wagner
  Die Tetralogie
     1950, Milan Scala Orchestra, soloists K. Flagstad, F. Frantz, E. Höngen, G. Treptow,
              S. Swanholm, M. Lorentz etc. (Arkadia)
  Die Walküre
     1954, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, soloists M. Mödl, L. Rysanek, L. Suthaus,
              F. Frantz, M. Klose, G. Frick etc. (Naxos, EMI)
  Excerpts from Die Walküre and Götterdämmerung
     1937, 1938, soloists R.Bockelmann, K.Flagstad, L.Melchior (Music & Arts)*
  Lohengrin (Act III)
     1936, Bayreuth, M.Müller, F.Völker (Venezia)*
  Tristan und Isolde
     1952, Philharmonia  Orchestra, K. Flagstad, L. Suthaus, B. Thebom, I. Greindl,
              D. Fischer-Dieskau (Naxos, EMI)
  Symphonic excerpts from operas
     Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (DG)*
  Symphonic excerpts from operas and final of Götterdämmerung
     Soloist K. Flagstad (EMI, Testament)
  Trauersmarsch from Götterdämmerung
    1933, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)*


Weber
  Der Freischütz
     1954, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, soloists E. Grümmer, R. Streich, H. Hopf,
              K. Böhm etc. (EMI)
  Euryanthe, Overture
    1954, Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (SWF)*


Wolf
  Lieder recital
     1953, Salzburg, soloist E. Schwartzkopf, unique and moving testimony of Furtwängler as
              a pianist (EMI).

[Que]

Could I have some input about the list of recommended recordings on the Furtwangler Society site? Do you agree with their choices? I've posted it below:

Oh, wow! 

On transfers let me say this list is obviously before M&A reissuing the LvB wartime set in new transfers (which I don't know), and before the emergence of the transfers on Opus Kura and on Melodiya (see earlier in this thread).
I bought a transfer of the Melodiya transfers of one of the wartime recordings and it was the best. I'm waiting for feedback from other posters on any other Melodiya items!
I mailed the French FW Society about Opus Kura, but haven't seen it being mentioned on their site. Btw, the transfers of the SWF is the same as Opus Kura's: transfers from Melodiya LP's.

On composers my experience is that I like FW best in Beethoven, Bruckner, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Sibelius.
I don't care for his Schubert - which is much loved and admired btw. Sounds totally out of sink to me.
Same with Haydn and Mozart - though his Don Giovanni is fascinating but more in an very odd way.

Brahms, yes, hmm, sometimes brilliant (1st from '51 and the 4th from '43) but I found the recordings in the EMI set unsatisfactory. You feel he's searching in Brahms, and not always finding...

Q

[Bogey]

Btw, the transfers of the SWF is the same as Opus Kura's: transfers from Melodiya LP's.


Q

Can you link us to Melodiya Q?

[Que]

Can you link us to Melodiya Q?

There is no trace of them on the Melodiya site yet.

I've listed a few in this earlier post
But for the full works, it's best to vist jpc and search on: "melodiya furtwängler".

Q

[Bunny]

For a glimpse of Furtwängler's Bach, listen to the NPR radio program.  Towards the end WF is playing the cadenza from the 5th Brandenburg concerto on piano.  It's tantalizing to say the least - and I usually prefer this on harpsichord.

Just hit the "Listen" button beneath the title and wait.  It's almost at the end of the program.  Btw, the information in the program is not new, and only mildly (at best) controversial.

NPR.org

[Bogey]

There is no trace of them on the Melodiya site yet.

I've listed a few in this earlier post
But for the full works, it's best to vist jpc and search on: "melodiya furtwängler".

Q

For the Bruckner 4, would Music and Arts do for now Q?

[Bogey]

For a glimpse of Furtwängler's Bach, listen to the NPR radio program.  Towards the end WF is playing the cadenza from the 5th Brandenburg concerto on piano.  It's tantalizing to say the least - and I usually prefer this on harpsichord.

Just hit the "Listen" button beneath the title and wait.  It's almost at the end of the program.  Btw, the information in the program is not new, and only mildly (at best) controversial.

NPR.org

Thank you for that Bunny....just finished.  NPR household here.  My wife does the news station, while I hit the classical station (local).  Just re-subscribed last night on the way to the symphony. 

[Que]

For the Bruckner 4, would Music and Arts do for now Q?

For Bruckner 4 - I have it still on DG myself ('51 Stuttgart).
In my experience M&A does better than DG, so I would suspect you have the best option. 
Though I noticed on the list George posted, there is also a transfer by the Japanse FW society.
(No Melodiya option here, because it's post-war.)

Q

[Bogey]

For Bruckner 4 - I have it still on DG myself ('51 Stuttgart).
In my experience M&A does better than DG, so I would suspect you have the best option. 
Though I noticed on the list George posted, there is also a transfer by the Japanse FW society.
(No Melodiya option here, because it's post-war.)

Q

Thanks Q.

[Bunny]

For Bruckner 4 - I have it still on DG myself ('51 Stuttgart).
In my experience M&A does better than DG, so I would suspect you have the best option. 
Though I noticed on the list George posted, there is also a transfer by the Japanse FW society.
(No Melodiya option here, because it's post-war.)

Q

I would go for the Japanese option as from long experience I know they are extremely particular about sound quality and the Japanese engineers are extremely good at what they do.

[Bogey]

Yesterday I was able to finally sit and give a proper listen to Beethoven Symphony No. 9 Furtwängler/Philharmonia Orchestra (Lucerene 8/22/'54-Tahra), as pictured above that Que finally dug up for me from a shop in the UK (I will post more on this source later as they were incredible with their service).  During my listen I could not but help compare it to the the 9th from March of 1942 on the Music and Arts label (pictured below).

Here is my nutshell conclusion.  The '54 has some of the most incredible sound for a recording of its age that I have ever heard.  The clarity was almost too good to believe at times.  In fact, I am putting it on  its own "island" list when I discuss future historic transfers.  I might even go as far and as denoting it as my "bridge" cd between old historic recordings and modern recordings when it comes to sound.  In short, I have heard nothing like it.  However, that does not give one the freedom to ignore the '42 recording.  My main reasoning here is that I find the '54 lacks the drive and passion (and choral performance) that the '42 has to offer.  Though still very well performed, it did not blow me away like the '42.  So, my conclusion is that one should own both.....and IMO there is nothing wrong with having one too many 9ths on the shelf.   

[George]

Yesterday I was able to finally sit and give a proper listen to Beethoven Symphony No. 9 Furtwängler/Philharmonia Orchestra (Lucerene 8/22/'54-Tahra), as pictured above that Que finally dug up for me from a shop in the UK (I will post more on this source later as they were incredible with their service).  During my listen I could not but help compare it to the the 9th from March of 1942 on the Music and Arts label (pictured below).

Here is my nutshell conclusion.  The '54 has some of the most incredible sound for a recording of its age that I have ever heard.  The clarity was almost too good to believe at times.  In fact, I am putting it on  its own "island" list when I discuss future historic transfers.  I might even go as far and as denoting it as my "bridge" cd between old historic recordings and modern recordings when it comes to sound.  In short, I have heard nothing like it.  However, that does not give one the freedom to ignore the '42 recording.  My main reasoning here is that I find the '54 lacks the drive and passion (and choral performance) that the '54 has to offer. Though still very well performed, it did not blow me away like the '42.  So, my conclusion is that one should own both.....and IMO there is nothing wrong with having one too many 9ths on the shelf.   

Thanks for your review, Bill!!

I assume you meant (in the bolded) section "...that the '42 has to offer?" 

[George]

BTW, Bill, where is the Tahra version available?

This is what the Furtwangler society has to say about the Lucerne Ninth of 1954 you review above (on Tahra):

"Finally, the famous Lucerne Ninth of 1954, which has to be considered as a testament. Here we find still more interpretative details not heard elsewhere [in furtwangler's performances], such as the fortissimo at bar 6 of the Scherzo. [Of Furtwangler's recorded performances of the 9th,] this is the most static and in places the slowest of all the Ninths, and also perhaps the one with the best orchestral playing. The recording is extraordinarily fine, and every detail of the score can be heard."

[Bogey]

BTW, Bill, where is the Tahra version available?

Here George:

http://www.the-woods.co.uk/

It was  £4.99 plus shipping, which was a bit more for its trip over the Atlantic, but still a great price considering what Que and I have recently seen them for....that is, when you see them.  My copy was used, but basically new.  The previous owner even left a newspaper article about Furtwängler that they had clipped out within the liner notes.

[Bogey]

Thanks for your review, Bill!!

I assume you meant (in the bolded) section "...that the '42 has to offer?" 

Yes.  Corrected and thank you buddy.

[Bogey]

BTW, Bill, where is the Tahra version available?

This is what the Furtwangler society has to say about the Lucerne Ninth of 1954 you review above (on Tahra):

"Finally, the famous Lucerne Ninth of 1954, which has to be considered as a testament. Here we find still more interpretative details not heard elsewhere, such as the fortissimo at bar 6 of the Scherzo. This is the most static and in places the slowest of all the Ninths, and also perhaps the one with the best orchestral playing. The recording is extraordinarily fine, and every detail of the score can be heard."

I believe that is a fair review....I am not totally sold on the phrase "perhaps the one with the best orchestral playing", but then, the word "perhaps" provides that nice loophole.  I will have to remember to use that word in my future reviews. 

[Que]

Here is my nutshell conclusion.  The '54 has some of the most incredible sound for a recording of its age that I have ever heard.  The clarity was almost too good to believe at times.  In fact, I am putting it on  its own "island" list when I discuss future historic transfers.  I might even go as far and as denoting it as my "bridge" cd between old historic recordings and modern recordings when it comes to sound.  In short, I have heard nothing like it.  However, that does not give one the freedom to ignore the '42 recording.  My main reasoning here is that I find the '54 lacks the drive and passion (and choral performance) that the '54 has to offer.  Though still very well performed, it did not blow me away like the '42.  So, my conclusion is that one should own both.....and IMO there is nothing wrong with having one too many 9ths on the shelf.   

Interesting comments, Bill!
Soundwise I feel this recordings easily trumps the '51 Bayreuth (EMI), as it does as a performance BTW.
It's fascinating to see that FW's wartime and postwar recordings are so radically different. And as you remarked, that goes too for the two recordings you compared - even more so than in any other piece and any other FW recordings I'd say. The '42 indeed being driven and passionate in a extravert way, almost apocalyptic. The '54 is IMO very inward looking, with emotions brooding below the surface. For me personally it embodies resignation and, like Beethoven when he wrote it, a longing for peace and emotional liberation. Sounds maybe a bit presumptuous, but I really think this is a recording (Lucerne '54) that grows on you.

Q

[Bogey]

Interesting comments, Bill!
Soundwise I feel this recordings easily trumps the '51 Bayreuth (EMI), as it does as a performance BTW.
It's fascinating to see that FW's wartime and postwar recordings are so radically different. And as you remarked, that goes too for the two recordings you compared - even more so than in any other piece and any other FW recordings I'd say. The '42 indeed being driven and passionate in a extravert way, almost apocalyptic. The '54 is IMO very inward looking, with emotions brooding below the surface. For me personally it embodies resignation and, like Beethoven when he wrote it, a longing for peace and emotional liberation. Sounds maybe a bit presumptuous, but I really think this is a recording (Lucerne '54) that grows on you.

Q

As always, your mastery of words is a pleasure to read.  Makes me want to go play both today and listen with your views in mind.  Yes, both the '42 and '54 are different enough that it will be interesting to see where they fall for me, in let's say, 10 years from now.  The '51 Bayreuth (EMI)?  Hmmmmm.   

[George]

I believe that is a fair review....I am not totally sold on the phrase "perhaps the one with the best orchestral playing", but then, the word "perhaps" provides that nice loophole.  I will have to remember to use that word in my future reviews. 

Yes, I guess I should have put the comments into perspective. It was taken from a discussion of Furtwangler's 9ths, so when they say "slowest of all" and "best orchestral playing," they mean of Furtwangler's recorded performances, not of everyone's.