VERDI King of Italian Opera

[Brünnhilde forever]

However this topic is called Verdi's Veranda, and it saddens me to see that it has attracted so few postings, as opposed to the pages of Wagner's Valhalla. Are there so few Verdi fans on this board?

I am sure there are lots of Verdi fans at GMG, what is lacking are good NEW recordings of his operas, as compared to the many of Wagner on the market, especially the DVDs. I am still waiting for a truly great Il Trovatore! The latest 'new' one was the video of a performance at Lake Constance, and that was at least three years ago. - I think I reviewed it here. - It was unique, the setting, not the performance!

Sorry, T.C., Bieito productions are not on my list! 

[knight66]

Surely we can discuss Verdi other than in terms of new recordings. For instance, old favourites, themes within Verdi, such as father/children relationships. Perhaps political issues both in his work and his life will give us some interest. His turbulent private life, his clear agenda of dividing church and state. The texts he used and why he was attracted to them may give us a few posts.

So, rather than me at once dive in: has anyone any thoughts on any of the above that we can follow through?

Mike

[Brünnhilde forever]

Of course lots of thoughts on the topics you mentioned, Mike, but in my above post I was trying to reply to the mentioned disparity between discussions of very few Verdi operas here at GMG compared to the multitude of Wagner works. 

[Sarastro]

Yeah, Verdi's early operas are great as well. Though listening to them, I sometimes can sense that Verdi's talent was somewhat restricted in those old forms (recitavio - aria - cabaletta). For instance, Macbeth (an opera I got acquainted very recently. Will as well try to re-read the play, this time - in English) which he would edit seventeen years later to make it more realistic...it resembles me Nabucco. Anyway, I love them both.

As for Nucci, I just watched (yesterday) a DVD of his Rigoletto with Luciana Serra and Alfredo Kraus from Parma, 1986. I agree, Nucci's voice sounds somewhat crude, but is strong and quite impressive in that role, with striking "Si, vendetta". He just outburst in a powerful and vengeful fit of rage. I would even say, his Rigoletto has a strong personality and constitution (compared to, say, Gobbi in that black-and-white film where he looked quite miserable. The film itself is the best video vesrion, I think, - different era, different style, aesthetics, but nonetheless very impressive) as well and is more like Scarpia. The entire cast is pretty old - Kraus is sixty there - yet I enjoyed singing immensely and a bit of acting.
I also watched Nucci in Tosca with Guleghina and Licitra - all of them were boring, and it is, o God, Puccini! So I'm outta here.

[T-C]

However this topic is called Verdi's Veranda, and it saddens me to see that it has attracted so few postings, as opposed to the pages of Wagner's Valhalla.

It doesn't sadden me, because it was always the case with GMG: Wagner is the prominent composer in the opera forum. It is related to the musical preferences of those who contribute here. It is totally OK with me, because people are writing about the music they love. It is quite different in other opera forums I know, like Opera-L, which is the greatest operatic forum on the net. Wagner has his rightful place as a major opera composer, but he is definitely not alone. But I admit that I don't feel at ease when great composers are trashed in order to glorify another.

I am a big admirer of Wagner's music myself, but I don't accept the equation Opera = Wagner or Opera = German opera. It is true that German opera is quite different from Italian or French opera, but in my opinion every genre has its merits and weaknesses.

Wagner's music impresses me first and foremost because of its intellectual and spiritual qualities. But scarcely it moves me in a way that a Verdi, Puccini or Janacek opera can. And Wagner's music has its weaknesses too: mainly overlong stretches of text and music that not always have in my opinion a dramatic need or justification. After all, in addition to his great genius Wagner was kind of a megalomaniac... He could have taken a lesson or two from Janacek in the matter of conciseness...

It is true that Puccini, that was a great Wagner admirer himself, said about Wagner that 'in comparison with him, we are all mandolin players...'. But although I am a great admirer of Puccini's music, I am quite sure that Puccini was wrong in the evaluation of his music or others (in any case, I love mandolins. One of my favorite Vivaldi concertos among the 100 or more that I know is a mandolin concerto...  ).

I agree with Lis, that unfortunately, there is less worth Verdi opera productions on DVD in relation to successful Wagner opera production. It doesn't mean that Verdi is not performed enough. On the contrary: It is for quite a long time that Verdi is in the second place in the number of opera productions all over the world. Mozart is in the first place. Wagner is in the fourth place right after Puccini... (But according to OPERA NEWS magazine, Puccini is the most performed opera composer in the US. An American idol...  )

In my opinion, what it does mean is that it is harder to find great Verdi singers. And singers that specialize in Belcanto roles are even scarcer, because they need a unique and outstanding technique that is quite hard to find. I can think of a number of singers these days that can sing a decent Isolde, but almost none can sing an acceptable Norma. It is hard to find a good Tristan, but even harder, an exceptional Otello...

Sorry, T.C., Bieito productions are not on my list! 

You have my support in this matter. Bieito productions are not on my list either...

But the lack of good relatively new Verdi productions on DVD is not complete. While Il Trovatore doesn't have many good DVD versions, other Verdi opera has. For example, La Traviata had lately quite a few worthwhile renditions on DVD like the one with Netrebko (Salzburg 2005), Fleming (Los Angeles 2006) or the last one – Gheorghiu (La Scala 2007).
   

[Sarastro]

Opera-L, which is the greatest operatic forum on the net.

I would say, the greatest operatic forum on the English-speaking net and which revolves mostly about the MET and American Opera. Have you ever heard anything about Italian OperaClick - Quotidiano di Informazione Operistica? A great source of opera news and a forum a hundred times bigger than Opera-L (and with threads of hundred pages). Or an immense classical music Russian forumklassika and two purely operatic forums as well? Or the Österreichischen Forum?

Fleming (Los Angeles 2006)

The production itself is very good, but the singing leaves much to be desired. To say the least, seventy-year-old Renato Bruson in the role of Girgio Germont was the best thing there.
For Netrebko - no comments. Haven't seen this notorious production and don't even want to - I heard its audio and it sucked. Absolutely void of any musical meaning, and again, the best thing was Germont, Thomas Hampson, who at least tried to sing. I give him credit for having such a grey timbre but being very musical and quite expressive in his interpretations.


PS: Though lately opera has become more visual in a sense of issuing all those mechanically corrected DVD's (for instance, Netrebko's Romeo and Juliet from the MET: on the live translation I heard several times false notes and disagreement with the orchestra and a broken note - none was in DVD!!! amazing work of sound engineers! as well as I heard her live - many technical problems, but on DVD's everything sounds decent), the quality of singing has become less florid. Why do I hear great interpretations in old audios and a miserable resemblance of vocalizing in modern cutesy-wrapped videos? Why are such mediocrities as Netrebko allowed onstage? 

[T-C]

Dear Sarastro, thanks for your correction:

Opera-L, which is the greatest operatic forum on the net in the English language.

Unfortunately, I am not as knowledgeable as you are... 

But for my defense I will say that I visit quite regularly sites like MusicWeb, OperaToday, The Opera Critic, MusicCriticism or Musical Pointers and a few operatic blogs (like the one of our old dear friend Nigel  ). Yes, I heard about the Italian OperaClick, I even have it on my 'favorites' list, and I visit there from time to time, but I admit that for me reading in Italian is not as fluent as I wish it would...

And I am quite familiar with the French ForumOpera, ResMusica and ConcertoNet !!

Unfortunately, I do not visit the Russian forumklassika primarily because I cannot read Russian. Nor do I know the Österreichischen Forum – I understand quite a lot German, but not enough to read fluently. But never mind, the Gramophone magazine, which I have been a subscriber for years, has a nice English forum too. The problem is that there is not too much traffic... 

As for the three Traviata DVDs that I mentioned: You didn't like the singing? I am truly sorry. I did.

Yes, Renato Bruson is seventy years old, but for my taste he still gives a lesson how this role should be performed, and his noticeable wobble in the high register detracts only mildly from my enjoyment of his performance.

Nor do I find Anna Netrebko a 'mediocrity'. I think she is an excellent singer in the proper roles.
Probably the problem is within my ears...

[Sarastro]

Nor do I find Anna Netrebko a 'mediocrity'.

Maybe you get distracted from music by her looks? I am jealous. The Italians (and on the OperaClick as well, you can read it) do not consider her an opera singer at all; I personally just can't stand horrible and meaningless singing.

However, it is good that you like her. Somebody has to. Different people like different things - some like even Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera - and we are all entitled to our personal opinions.
Have you heard the mediocrity Netrebko live?

[T-C]

Maybe you get distracted from music by her looks? I am jealous. The Italians (and on the OperaClick as well, you can read it) do not consider her an opera singer at all;

I don't get distracted from the music by Netrebko's looks.
I will rephrase it this way: I enjoy her performance both visually and vocally...  0:)

The Italians do not consider her as an opera singer?
I really don't care. After all, I am not Italian...

However, it is good that you like her. Somebody has to.

I am quite sure that I am not the only one who enjoys her singing.
I am not a Netrebko fan, but I do enjoy her singing in some of the roles she sings.

Have you heard the mediocrity Netrebko live?

I haven't heard her live, but I have quite a few recordings of her, most of them are of live performances.
Does she sound to you 'mediocre' when she sings in Russian too?

[Sarastro]

When she sings in Russian, I can barely understand the words and do not recognize the music at all. Sometimes I can't even understand entire phrases...very poor diction. I would even say, there is absence of diction.

She screams in the upper register; in fact, the top register of hers is strained and dull. The singing is mannered, dumb, and meaningless - that implies there are no nuances, no change of musical frames, feelings, or thoughts. It sounds very mechanical. Wording does not concur with musical intonation, and the intonation itself is occasionally false. Plus complete misunderstanding of bel canto and other styles. Her coloraturas are crude and inconsistent; the voice is artificially deepened and squeezed. She sounded well only in the beginning of her career, say, Ruslan and Lyudmila from the Kirov Opera, 1995. The tone was pure, the voice - ringing. Just curious, but there is nothing more to it as well. She had a potential, but she fooled away with it.

As my friend says, we all listen to opera for different purposes: some like nice pictures in motion, some enjoy the glamour of modern divas, some just need some noise doodling around, some want to hear music, some want to hear drama, some - both, etc. And that's good - we all are different and have our peculiar approaches to it. I just expressed my point of view on Anna Netrebko.

[knight66]

The idea of a comic Verdi opera sounds strange. I don't know these early works. I have been aware of them and know that Gardelli was highly praised for them. He died quite young I think, a pity he did not get much opportunity to record some of the mature works. I think he did lay down a Macbeth with Suliotis when her voice was in meltdown.

Anyway, TS, if I was to start with the best of the early works: which one do you suggest? I know Verdi referred to his galley years. I assume he felt like he was having to produce work mechanically, as against late in life when he only wrote when the inspiration hit him. We are fortunate he did not do a Rossini on us and go silent while still young.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

Anyway, TS, if I was to start with the best of the early works: which one do you suggest? I know Verdi referred to his galley years. I assume he felt like he was having to produce work mechanically, as against late in life when he only wrote when the inspiration hit him. We are fortunate he did not do a Rossini on us and go silent while still young.

Mike

I assume you know Nabucco and Luisa Miller already, Mike. I am still getting to know the other early operas I have purchased, but Stiffelio would probably head the list, though, as it predates Rigoletto by only a year or so, Verdi is already into his stride. The theme was not one that contemporary Italian audiences could easily understand: a priest with a wife, a husband who thinks it Christian to forgive marital infidelity. But the subject and characters obviously engaged Verdi's sympathies and Stiffelio emerges one of his most complex characters to date. When the opera ran into trouble with the censors, Verdi returned to it, now setting the opera (Aroldo), at Piave's suggestion, in the time of the Crusades, and altering some of the music. It is also one of the operas (the other being la Battaglia de Legnano) that Verdi said he would not like to be forgotten. This latter opera, a short, terse work, though not on the same level of psychological complexity, is also well worth hearing for the sweep of its melodies and the orchestral tone- colouring.

As I already mentioned, Un Giorno di Regno, though it hardly sounds like the Verdi we know, is a charming work and easily as enjoyable as Don Pasquale, for instance. Of the others, though they can be patchy, all of them yield magic from time to time, and all are interesting in charting Verdi's journey towards the later masterpieces, culminating in those twin peaks of the genre, Otello and Falstaff.

[T-C]

I will add to Tsaraslondon list of pre-Rigoletto Verdi operas a few more: Ernani, Il Corsaro, I Lombardi and I due Foscari. For the last three there is an excellent Phillips recording that is conducted by Gardelli. For Ernani I recommend the RCA recording with Carlo Bergonzi and Leontyne Price that is conducted by Thomas Schippers   

Un Giorno di Regno is charming, and is the only comic opera before Falstaff, although for my taste it is not in the same level as Donozetti's best comedies like L'elixir d'amore or Don Pasquale.
       

[knight66]

TL and TC, thanks both. I have some of those mentioned, Lusia Miller, I really need to get to grips with it. The couple of listens I have given it so far, I made little of it, nonsense on my part. I need to concentrate properly. Ernani, the very recording I have and enjoy. It sounded to me as though all involved manage the best possible case for it.

You are right, Nabucco I know well, it is a remarkable blend of the conventional and some really inspired music. Likewise with Macbeth, the witches music is simply not on a level with a great deal of the rest. I have heard the earlier unrevised version, most of the best bones are there, but as often with Verdi, revision involved tightening the structure and to its benefit.

However, where you have jolted me is to tell me that Stiffelio dates from only a year before Rigoletto. I must have a look at it.

As an aside, does anyone else find La Forza to be a dogs breakfast of a piece? I dislike it as an entire work to the extent that I only listen to excerpts.

Mike

[knight66]

I have ordered the Stiffelio: here is the Amazon review, I assume the writer is NOT our Dr Karl!

"  4 of 4 people found the following review helpful:
An opera that should be much better known beautifully performed, 8 May 2007
By  Dr Karl - See all my reviews

This is the opera that Verdi wrote immediately before his career exploded with the composition in a couple of years of Rigoletto, La Traviata and Trovatore. It is a truly remarkable one in more respects than one. The main event of the story, the adulterous affair of Stiffelio's wife, has already taken place before the curtain rises. The overture has a totally haunting tune for trumpet that sets up the tone for what emerges as real psychodrama. Stiffelio, a charismatic pastor, returns from his travels to discover that his wife has been unfaithful. She is torn by remorse. Her father, a retired soldier and a great Stiffelio fan takes justice into his own hands, killing lover. Stiffelio offers his wife a divorce (something that did not play well with audiences at the time of its premiere). The opera's conclusion is very powerful as forgiveness is contrasted to revenge.

This performance offers a chance to hear Carreras at his absolute prime; he was at his best in lyrical Verdi parts (such as those in Due Foscari and Simon Boccanegra) and here he sings like a god. Sylvia Sass in the role of his wife sings with tremendous character - she was a very gifted soprano, whose gift did not last long but here she reaches Callas-like levels of nuance and expressiveness. The excellent baritone, who was not very popular with record companies which preferred several of his less gifted rivals, shows us what he can do. This thrilling performance is beautifully conducted. Strongly recommended."

Mike 

[springrite]

I have that Stiffelio and it IS top notch. It has always been one of Verdi's most underrated works.

[Tsaraslondon]

As an aside, does anyone else find La Forza to be a dogs breakfast of a piece? I dislike it as an entire work to the extent that I only listen to excerpts.

Mike

I know what you mean about Forza, but I usually try to listen to the whole work. The Preziosilla stuff can drive me potty, but those military camp scenes do serve their purpose in complementing, and in a way making their own implicit comment on the drama of the Calatrava family. And of course the opera as a whole does contain some great music. Virtually all the music for the central characters (Leonora, Don Alvaro, Di Vargas and the Padre Guardiano) achieves greatness and shows Verdi continuing his move from strict aria form towards a greater fluidity. It is certainly an opera I wouldn't want to be without.

[karlhenning]

I have ordered the Stiffelio: here is the Amazon review, I assume the writer is NOT our Dr Karl!

[Anne]

I loved La Forza from the very first time I heard it even though it was sung by Sharon Sweet.  There are so many beautiful melodies in it!

[Brünnhilde forever]

I've only once seen Nucci live, in La Traviata at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, when Angel Gheorghiu was making her debut as Violetta. It might be argued that Germont was a bit of a dry old stick, but I found his acting wooden in the extreme, and his singing not much better. Mind you Solti's four square conducting couldn't have helped, though it hindered Gheorghiu less. Hers was, and still is by all accounts, an appreciable Violetta.

Thank you for reminding me that I have this performance in my LVD collection and I watched it this afternoon. After the heart rending Nucci performance in Rigoletto I too was a bit disappointed about his Germont sr. But as you pointed out, Solti's conducting didn't do a thing for the opera. The young and beautiful Gheorghiu simply ignored him and gave me shivers. Yes, too bad, she lost some of it since this 1994 performance.