VERDI King of Italian Opera

[Sarastro]

I will add to Tsaraslondon list of pre-Rigoletto Verdi operas a few more: Ernani, Il Corsaro, I Lombardi and I due Foscari. For the last three there is an excellent Phillips recording that is conducted by Gardelli. For Ernani I recommend the RCA recording with Carlo Bergonzi and Leontyne Price that is conducted by Thomas Schippers   

For once I agree with you. We should be grateful to Philips and Gardelli for this series of young Verdi operas with superb casts.
As for Ernani, that is a complete (no cuts! I mean) recording of the opera with distinguished singing. Bergonzi is one of my favorite singers with impeccable taste. I also recommend his 3 CD's recital - Verdi Arias, issued again by Philips. Price with her huge and creamy voice is a perfect Elvira, especially in Ernani, Ernani, involami. Sereni is a great singer as well, though, I think, somewhat underestimated.

Imho, Ernani's quite lucky with its discography, and the music is delightful - the essence of the young Verdi. My two personal favorites are:
Gino Penno, Caterina Mancini, Giuseppe Taddei, Giacomo Vaghi - Fernando Previtali, 1950 and
Mario Del Monaco, Margherita Roberti, Ettore Bastianini, Nicola Rossi-Lemeni - Fernando Previtali, 1960,
though they cannot boast completeness as the one with Bergonzi and Price...
All those audio recordings are true masterpieces of vocal artistry!

I haven't heard her live

I have: in Manon. And simply cannot recall any emotions. Verdi's operas require great vocal and artistic mastership, which she simply does not have. Verdi's music itself is very real and full of compassion; heroes in his operas are never superficial or dull. Netrebko exploits the same image everywhere. I think operetta would be better for her - she has a pretty mediocre operetta voice, as well as very mediocre vocal technique - what becomes very audible in years. I give her credit for being charming onstage, but that is just the effect of instantaneous presence which disappears as soon as you leave the theatre. Sorry for yapping about Netrebko again, but I can't treat opera just as an entertainment which gives no thoughts at all.

[T-C]

For once I agree with you.

There is nothing wrong with disagreements. Otherwise this forum will be quite dull.
I am glad that you agree with me about something, but here unfortunately our agreement ends... 

I have: in Manon. And simply cannot recall any emotions.

I didn't see Netrebko live in Manon, but I have her Berlin performance of Manon in the recently released DG DVD. I am not saying that she is the best Manon there is, she is definitely not (On DVD I prefer both Dessay and Fleming). I agree that her diction and coloratura are not perfect. But for me it is not all black and white. I really enjoyed her singing, and it is combined with a strong stage charisma - she is an excellent actress.

She is returning now to the stage after a half-year pause to sing Lucia. It seems that Peter Gelb is the most amateurish General Manager of the Met ever, employing such a 'mediocre' singer for a leading role at a major house like the Met, and I will not comment in this aspect about the people who run the ROH, the Vienna State Opera the Berlin Opera etc. ... 

In another thread you wrote, "I wouldn't compare anyone to Callas". I definitely will. She was a great singer, but I don't like her voice very much, especially in the later recordings, when her voice became shrill and unpleasant for my ears. And while I like her in several recordings like the famous 1953 Tosca, Gioconda, Lucia etc, I don't particularly care for several other roles of her, like Gilda, Butterfly or Turandot, especially Gilda, where she sounds to me 'Callas' and not the innocent young girl she is portraying. For my taste, the best Butterflys are Scotto and Freni; the best Turandot is Dimitrova although the best recording of Turandot is the Mehta with Sutherland and Pavarotti.

And by the way, I really like Renee Fleming. But it wouldn't be a shock for you. After all, it is expected from someone with an extremely bad taste, isn't it? 


Netrebko as Manon in Berlin.

   

[Sarastro]

The same production was in LA - it has traveled around the world several times.

the best Turandot is Dimitrova although the best recording of Turandot is the Mehta with Sutherland and Pavarotti.

I personally love both the recording with Sutherland and Pavarotti and Dimitrova as a singer, but I wouldn't ever place them as the best Turandot recording and, correspondingly, the best Turandot ever. Dimitrova has a huge voice and at the same time difficulties in the top register - she screams. Maybe it is due to her nature - borderline between a mezzo and a soprano; therefore she was quite good as Amneris and Eboli, but somehow the tessitura of Turandot is a bit too high for her. I say she is the best Abigaille.

In another thread you wrote, "I wouldn't compare anyone to Callas". I definitely will. She was a great singer, but I don't like her voice very much, especially in the later recordings, when her voice became shrill and unpleasant for my ears. And while I like her in several recordings like the famous 1953 Tosca, Gioconda, Lucia etc, I don't particularly care for several other roles of her, like Gilda, Butterfly or Turandot, especially Gilda, where she sounds to me 'Callas' and not the innocent young girl she is portraying.

I don't claim Callas was the best in every role she portrayed, but certainly I don't hear "shrill and unpleasant voice" in her recordings - rather I hear music.

[knight66]

I know that this topic is headed 'Verdi'; but it is nice to see traffic on the vocal board. I see Sarastro has started us a new topic on today's singers and I will have a listen to the links he has provided.

In reply to the above, Nilsson supplies most of what I look for in Turandot; I can't get along with Dimitrova's voice. I do find this division between us interesting, where there are different opinions on the same voices. Sutherland I like rather than really go for. It was a stunning voice, but I did not feel she was doing interesting things musically, the word use we have already discussed. But others get all they ever want from her. Oddly Turandot is one exception, where she did use the words and the drama was more intense because of it, plus, her voice surprisingly really suits the part.

See you on the other thread; meanwhile, do let us have some Verdi posts. I have the Abbado Macbeth, I got rid of the Muti as it just seemed to me that Abbado was a little better in each respect. I have the live Callas version from EMI. Are there any other versions in good sound that I really ought to investigate. I am happy to look for a DVD.

Mike

[T-C]

Mike,

I have both the Abbado and Muti Macbeth. From the musical point of view, for my taste they are both excellent, while the EMI London recording is technically better and analytical in relation to the DG La Scala recording.

I also like the Sinopoli Philips recording. Renato Bruson is an outstanding Macbeth but I know that there are people who are allergic to Mara Zampieri's voice... the sound is excellent.

As for DVDs, there is an Arthaus DVD with almost the same cast as the Philips recording (Sinopoli). The old Glyndebourne production (Arthaus) with Kostas Paskalis and Josephine Barstow is very good but a bit old, so technically it is a bit dated. None of the other DVDs I know for this opera is really outstanding, bus some are quite good, like the Zurich Welser-Most performance with Thomas Hampson. He is not especially connected with Verdi's music, but he is very good here, although the modern approach of the director, David Pountney, will not be to every ones taste. The Gran Teatre del Liceu production (Opus Arte) with Carlos Alvarez and Maria Guleghina is Ok. The TDK DVD of the Teatro Regio di Palma with Leo Nucci and Sylvie Valayre is less successful. The latest addition – the Met 2008 production (EMI) with Zeljko Lucic and Guleghina was for me a disappointment, therefore I will not recommend it.


Sarastro,

Dimitrova's Abigaille. I think we should arrange a press conference: another agreement! 

It is quite common that different people hear different things in the same performance, because different people are searching for different qualities. But I read a lot about what people think of music. It is quite typical of Callas admirers that they can for example, easily criticize severely other singers because of a "vibrato". But with Callas they are very forgiving – the very wide vibrato I hear in some of her recordings is 'an intrinsic part of the interpretation'...

[Sarastro]

I also like the Sinopoli Philips recording. Renato Bruson is an outstanding Macbeth but I know that there are people who are allergic to Mara Zampieri's voice... the sound is excellent.

I am not allergic to Zampieri's voice, but Sinopli's conducting disappointed me for the first time. I haven't heard any other versions except the Abbado one, the Callas one, and Fischer-Dieskau with Suoliotis, therefore won't suggest anything. Though I heard that Taddei-Gencer recording is outstanding.

[knight66]

Thanks both, I used to have the Sinopoli recording, I liked Zampieri, but I found the conducting had too many gear changes, it was not organic.

I saw the Glyndebourne production many years ago on TV. I can't help thinking that Barstow needed to be seen in the flesh. I sang in chorus with her and she was magnetic, I thought she was marvelous, but on disc I find too many flaws and the actual voice does not record well. Paskilas I thought to be an under rated singer. I saw him as Iago to Vickers Otello and it was quite a duo.

I also find Hampson a disengaged singer somehow. I caught part of a Macbeth with him in it, I enjoyed it, but I was in a hotel, had to go out, so did not know which production etc. Is this one that seems to use a large box within the stage? If so, I think I may go for it; as I enjoyed the concepts and especially thought the chorus of murderers worked better than I have seen it before, they dressed one up on stage from what I recall.

Fischer Dieskau was a great singer, but I never felt he was idiomatic in Italian opera.

Mike

[Sarastro]

The latest addition – the Met 2008 production (EMI) with Zeljko Lucic and Guleghina...

...is entirely available on youtube. Here is the first chunk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO0end4-P5k - the rest is there as well.

[Tsaraslondon]

I am at present in the middle of a concentrated Verdi listening session, and have started listening to all my Verdi opera recordings in reverse chronological order. In other words, I started with Falstaff and am working backwards until I come to Un Giorno Di Regno, the earliest opera I have in my collection. This is an exercise that will take some time, as I have at present 32 complete sets, including 2 of Otello, 4 of Aida, 2 of Don Carlo, 2 of Un Ballo in Maschera, 3 of La Traviata, 2 of Macbeth and (surprisingly) 2 of Un Giorno di Regno.

First for consideration, then, is Falstaff. I own the first Karajan recording, with Gobbi, Schwarzkopf, Panerai, Barbieri, Moffo and Alva and have never felt the need for another. This is a masterly performance of an endlessly fascinating masterpiece. In fact, every time I see or hear this opera, I am newly amazed at its melodic fecundity, its gay and merry wit, the perfection of the ensembles and the sparkling brilliance of the orchestration. Just as Mozart did with Beumarchais' Les Noces de Figaro, and with the help of Boito's masterly distillation of Shakespeare's The Merry Wives of Windsor, Verdi transcends his source, giving us a Falstaff closer in character to the fat knight of Henry IV and V. The score abounds with so many felicitous touches that it is impossible to enumerate them all in a short appreciation such as this, but I would point, in particular, to the lovers' lyrical phrases, "sprinkled like sugar on a tart" (Boito's words), throughout the score, the magical fairy music in the last Act, wonderfully pre-echoed in Alice's sepulchral tale of the previous scene, and the marvellous, soaringly lyrical phrase with which Alice mocks one of Falstaff's silly phrases in the letter he sends to her and Meg. With Ford's jealousy monologue, we are almost back in the world of Otello, reminding us how closely linked comedy and tragedy are. Then, of course, there is the music for Falstaff himself, a superb characterisation, summed up in his two great monologues, first the famous solo on the subject of honour, and then the one of at the beginning of Act III, where Falstaff, in bitter and pessimistic mood, rails against all those who contributed to his ducking in the Thames, until the mulled wine revives him and, with a massive trill in the orchestra, he declaims, "E il trillo invade il mondo". That a man in his 80s could come up with such a delightfully fast paced piece is a miracle indeed.

Otello was next on my journey. Two recordings here: Domingo's first with Scotto and Milnes, conducted by Levine, and Vickers's first, with Rysanek and Gobbi and conducted by Serafin. Neither performance is perfect in all respects, and both catch the Otellos early in their respective attempts to conquer this greatest of all Verdi tenor roles. However, Vickers's later CD recording, with Freni and Glossop, is put completely out of court by Karajan's heinous cut in the Act III ensemble. I would also not want to be without Serafin's masterly traversal of the score and Gobbi's superbly insinuating Iago. Rysanek is on an altogether lower level of achievement, which is one of the reasons I plumped for the earliest of Domingo's Otellos, housing, as it does, one of the most affecting Dedemonas on disc, Renata Scotto. Her voice might not be a natural for the role (Tebaldi would be the yardstick here), but she makes more of it dramatically than any other soprano I know. Turning back to the opera itself, both recordings made me wonder afresh at the fantastic colours Verdi conjures from the orchestra; the storm sequence at the beginning must be the most brilliant in all opera. As in Falstaff, the beauties of this score are too numerous to mention in such a short space of time, but I would direct listeners to the beauty of the love duet in Act I, with its magically ethereal ending, Iago's terrifying Credo, as chilling a depiction of outright evil as one is ever to encounter in opera, and the compassion with which Verdi traces Otello's gradual disintegration, particularly in the duet in which Otello unjustly accuses his wife of adultery, and in which he achieves the almost impossible task of making us feel more sympathy for him even than her. This leads to Otello's great soliloquy "Dio, mi potevi scagliar", begun first in a stifled near- monotone, before broadening into the painfully eloquent melody of "Ma, o pianto, o duol". The last act, opening with Desdemona's wonderful Willow Song and Ave Maria is a miracle of succinctness and  surely only the hardest heart could remain unmoved by Otello's final farewell to life as the orchestra overwhelmingly repeats that beautiful phrase from the Act I love duet. Either on disc or in the theatre, the work invariably leaves me absolutely drained.

[knight66]

As I write I am listening to the Karajan Trovatore with Callas and Di Stefano from the big EMI box set. I have never been able to connect with this tenor. However, the set has theatre coursing through its veins. I also was listening to the first two acts of the later Karajan set with Leontine Price; which I think is better than the reviews indicate. Price was not as pristine as for the earlier Mehta recording and does not do much with the words; but the overall cast is strong, though the dramatic pulse is loose in comparison to the Callas set.

Mind you, it can succeed without the outright blood and guts approach. Giulini produced a performance that made me hear a lot in the opera I had not been aware of. There the pace is somewhat stately, but the drama does accumulate and the piece feels more significant. The set contains one of Plowright's very best performances. She plays with the sinuous melodies as though inventing them.

Falstaff is such a blast. Energy and sly humour coursing through it and such beautiful love music for the young couple. As a teenager, I found it difficult to appreciate the piece initially; as it was not what I was used to with Verdi. Sunny is an epithet I rarely put to his music. Although I enjoy the EMI Karajan, especially his pacing of the quicksilver ensembles; I have a lot of affection for the Solti set with Geraint Evans, who I think has a more suitably 'fat' voice for the part than Gobbi. Solti does not drive the piece, another underrated set perhaps.

Of the Otellos...I have the Serafin, but find the Desdemona a bit of a pill with curdled tone. But it has Vickers who is my favourite exponent of the part and partnered by the best Iago, Gobbi more in his normal territory. The later Karajan set has very strange sound perspectives as well as that mysterious cut. Incidentally, the big EMI box lists this set with Domingo singing Otello, a silly misprint.

I still go back to Toscanini for this piece to get the drama, there also I am not fond of the Desdemona. Another older set that provides a real theatrical experience is Panizza with Martinelli, Rethberg and Tibbett. It is live from the Met 1938, now available on Naxos in good sound for its age, less strident than that on the Toscanini. I got rid of the Pavarotti version; he did not fit my bill at all. I see I have on my shelf, the Solti with Cossutta, Bacquier and Margaret Price. I recall so little about this set, I will have to give it a spin. Oddly though perhaps appropriately, Price is named first on the box! Cossutta's voice appeals, but he seems not to have been given many opportunities by the record companies. I will see how his Moor stands up and falls down.

I have wondered whether the Chung set is any good with Domingo.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

Well, as you know, Mike, I'm allergic to Solti in Verdi, so don't own any of his Verdi recordings, not even the Aida, which has one of the best casts ever assembled for a recording of the piece.

As for Falstaff, others have criticised Gobbi's voice for not having the "fat" sound one would really want to hear, but I can't say it bothers me unduly, and, like his Iago, his characterisation is a miracle of detail. I also love the rest of the cast, finding Schwarzkopf's high spirits absolutely delectable. That hers is not an Italianate sounding voice bothers me not one whit in this piece; and I also love the lovers of Moffo and Alva.

I haven't heard the Chung version of Otello, but it has received a good press. I don't respond well to Studer though, and this has been another reason for me choosing the earliest of Domingo's assumptions. I agree with you about Rysanek in the Serafin though.

[knight66]

Ah, yes, that Aida from Solti is a favourite of mine. I forgot to mention that in Falstaff I also have the Toscanini, and the Abbado with Terfel. That is a superb modern version, no weak links. One day you might give it a try.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

Incidentally, Mike, I have always loved that Karajan/Callas Il Trovatore. Karajan seems to find exactly the right balance between Verdian slancio and lyrical elegance. Di Stefano is over parted to be sure, though he sings a lovely Ah, si ben mio, but the rest of the cast is pretty good, and, as is often the case, much better than the sum of its parts. Callas, though captured a little late for comfort, makes more of Leonora's music than any other soprano I know; and I include Price and Plowright. But to hear what she could achieve in this opera, you really have to hear one of the earlier live broadcasts. I managed to download one from La Scala in 1953, in which her singing is literally breathtaking, even under the rather prosaic baton of Antonino Votto. It was at this performance that Visconti found himself sharing a box with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. He had arrived late and didn't recognise his companion at first, but after Callas had finished singing her Act IV aria, she turned to him, with tears streaming down her face, and said, "that woman is a miracle".

[knight66]

The Trovatore has burned itself out. The final half hour really accumulates drama like a rushing train. Karajan manages a propultion that nevertheless never feels like it will spin out of control. I preferred Stefano later in the opera. Callas as always makes you believe what she is singing. I was following the libretto and in the first two acts from the later Karajan version with Price, I could hardly make out any of her words, even following the libretto.

I remember an old version on LP: Schippers, Tucker, Elias. I don't recall who the Leonora was, but I enjoyed that set in my teens. I have never seen it on CD.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

I remember an old version on LP: Schippers, Tucker, Elias. I don't recall who the Leonora was, but I enjoyed that set in my teens. I have never seen it on CD.

Mike

Are you perhaps mixing up two different recordings? According to my copy of The Metropolitan Opera Guide to Recorded Opera, Tucker and Elias sing on a RCA set conducted by Arturo Basile, and featuring Price's first Leonora. Schippers conducted one with Tucci, Simionato, Corelli and Merrill for EMI.

[knight66]

I had a google and saw that the Tucker Elias one was with Basile. No doubt I am wrong. Now which one did I have!

Lost in the mists of time.

Mike

[T-C]

I own the first Karajan recording, with Gobbi, Schwarzkopf, Panerai, Barbieri, Moffo and Alva and have never felt the need for another.

And I, on the other hand, will never have enough Falstaff recordings, because with a great masterpiece like this, you will always get new and different insights from different recordings.

The Karajan mono recording with Gobbi is excellent, but I second Mike with his recommendation for Solti's first recording, which is outstanding in every aspect, and his Fenton and Nanneta – the young Alfredo Kraus and Mirella Freni are my favorites in these roles.

For modern sets, I support again Mike with his recommendation for Abbado recording, but for my taste, even better and cheaper, is Colin Davis second recording on the LSOLive label. This is my favorite among modern sets.

You have mentioned the Chung Otello recording. This is an excellent recording with spectacular sound quality, although not everyone will like the odd Italian pronunciation of the Iago - Sergei Leiferkus – even though he sings very well.

As for Aida recordings – The Solti with Price and Vickers is a must-have for all Price admirers. I have few recordings for this opera (Callas, Tebaldi, Price, Price, Caballe, Freni, Millo) and for my taste no one equals Price in the Solti recording with the beauty of the singing especially in the third act duet 'La tra foreste vergini', not even Price herself, in her later recording with Leinsdorf...

[Tsaraslondon]

The Karajan mono recording with Gobbi is excellent, but I second Mike with his recommendation for Solti's first recording, which is outstanding in every aspect, and his Fenton and Nanneta – the young Alfredo Kraus and Mirella Freni are my favorites in these roles.

But the first Karajan is actually in pretty good stereo.

As for Aida recordings – The Solti with Price and Vickers is a must-have for all Price admirers. I have few recordings for this opera (Callas, Tebaldi, Price, Price, Caballe, Freni, Millo) and for my taste no one equals Price in the Solti recording with the beauty of the singing especially in the third act duet 'La tra foreste vergini', not even Price herself, in her later recording with Leinsdorf...

I agree. Price is superb, though Callas still makes much more of the Nile scene, but I just can't take Solti in Verdi. For me, he never finds that lyric sweep, essential in Verdi, and there in the conducting of Abbado. Muti, Serafin, Giulini and Karajan. I heard him conduct La Traviata at Covent Garden, on the occasion of Angela Gheorghiu's debut in the role, and, if anything, the conducting in this middle period opera was even more unsatisfactory.

[T-C]

But the first Karajan is actually in pretty good stereo.

Thanks for the correction. I have this recording on vinyl records and haven't heard it for years. I just remembered it was recorded around the year 1955, but one should not rely solely on his deteriorating memory... 

Anyway, it is a good opportunity to buy it again on CDs, especially when it is so cheap now (MDT price is £5.53...).

[knight66]

Yes, the Colin Davis LSO version of Falstaff is indeed excellent. Recorded live, it has that immediacy and fizz that is difficult to replicate in the studio. However, I find the Falstaff does not imprint himself on me; so I am not quite as fond of it as I otherwise would be.

Mike