The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread

[Abuelo Igor]

I beg to differ. I don't care for the "album as it was originally released" idea because I haven't listened to an entire album from start to finish since I was a teenager with a lot of time in his hands, and even then I preferred to play different bits and pieces from a bunch of different records, so the idea of having the contents reordered and reshuffled for efficiency doesn't strike me as blasphemous in any way.

Also, maybe you haven't noticed that a box set of one hundred 35-minute CDs costs exactly the same as a box set of one hundred 70-minute CDs, but a set of 50 70-minute CDs with the exact same contents rearranged would be considerably cheaper. If you grew up orphaned and poor like me, maybe you'll appreciate the difference.

[Brian]

Yes, the producers certainly mark up the price to match the number of CDs, far in excess of the actual cost to press more CDs.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I beg to differ. I don't care for the "album as it was originally released" idea because I haven't listened to an entire album from start to finish since I was a teenager with a lot of time in his hands, and even then I preferred to play different bits and pieces from a bunch of different records, so the idea of having the contents reordered and reshuffled for efficiency doesn't strike me as blaspemous in any way.

Also, maybe you haven't noticed that a box set of one hundred 35-minute CDs costs exactly the same as a box set of one hundred 70-minute CDs, but a set of 50 70-minute CDs with the exact same contents rearranged would be considerably cheaper. If you grew up orphaned and poor like me, maybe you'll appreciate the difference.

Yep. Huge +1. I've never been a fan of this concept.

[Ken B]

perhaps you haven't noticed

A 35 minute album is shorter than a 60 minute album? I never noticed.

[Biffo]

I have three of 'The Original Jacket Collection' releases - Szell/Mozart, Ormandy and Montserrat Caballe. The Caballe set sticks to the format of following the content of the original releases with their original covers. The Szell set keeps the original covers but adds various bonus items to most discs. The Ormandy set adds extra items but it also doctors the original covers to add the new items. For example, the Tchaikovsky disc has Symphony No 5 and the Serenade for Strings shown on the front cover but it is clear from the rear cover that the original release only had the symphony. I am happy to have the extra item but the presentation makes the 'original jacket' concept pointless.

Even without the above compromises I am not sold on the idea. The box design, ie. the bit I see most often, is hideous. The original jacket designs are, by and large, undistinguished. Worst of all, the cardboard sleeves are very tight-fitting, making it difficult to get the discs out.

The content is a different matter - the Szell and Caballe setes are excellent but I found the Ormandy selection disappointing.

[akebergv]

It's fascinating if not unexpected to read the widely different reactions to the question of original jackets vs. filling the CDs to the brim, and personally I'm susceptible to arguments from both sides. On the one hand I love well-made original jackets of LPs that were well thought out from the start and that include legible info on the backside (and some of the Sony boxes are the best in that regard), but as a collector with a massive number of CDs I also love the ones that approach 90 min since that means taking up less space. In particular, I'm all for the blu-ray editions that Decca/DG are producing, where you can get the whole Ring Cycle or all of Mozart's symphonies on a single disc, or 75 Bach cantatas on two (and with the added benefit of hi-rez rather than plain redbook). What I do not like, just to give an example, is when Sony/RCA uses three short CDs for Leinsdorf's Tosca (as they do in the Living Stereo, vol. 2 box) simply because the original box consisted of three LPs, especially since the 3 CD container has nothing either on the back or on the inside if you open it up.

[André]

The whole concept of Original Covers is an appeal to nostalgia directed at the baby-boomer generation. Going vintage is a sure way to arouse fond memories and trigger the purchase. I'm ok with that, but think that a reasoned and reasonable purchase shouldn't appeal only to the senses/memories, it also has to make sense money wise. In that regard, fitting in additional material - sometimes combining the contents of two LPs onto one CD - is the best way to satisfy the consumer in me.

[Ken B]

The whole concept of Original Covers is an appeal to nostalgia directed at the baby-boomer generation. Going vintage is a sure way to arouse fond memories and trigger the purchase. I'm ok with that, but think that a reasoned and reasonable purchase shouldn't appeal only to the senses/memories, it also has to make sense money wise. In that regard, fitting in additional material - sometimes combining the contents of two LPs onto one CD - is the best way to satisfy the consumer in me.

What if the price is lower? I mean, everyone seems to assume that original jackets must mean a serious price increase, and that is not so. The Perahia box was all OJ, and cheap.

As I said, I liked the Living Stereo, where the extensions matched. But I would also have been happy with 70 discs instead of 60 at the same price.

An example of doing it wrong is EMI's 19th Century Masterpieces box. Lots of great stuff. Packed very tight so a symphony and a quartet and a piano piece and an overture all on one disc. And so boxes, to minimize plastic, split compositions unnecessarily over two discs. Anyone a fan of that?

[Pat B]

What if the price is lower? I mean, everyone seems to assume that original jackets must mean a serious price increase, and that is not so. The Perahia box was all OJ, and cheap.

As I said, I liked the Living Stereo, where the extensions matched. But I would also have been happy with 70 discs instead of 60 at the same price.

An example of doing it wrong is EMI's 19th Century Masterpieces box. Lots of great stuff. Packed very tight so a symphony and a quartet and a piano piece and an overture all on one disc. And so boxes, to minimize plastic, split compositions unnecessarily over two discs. Anyone a fan of that?

Living Stereo 1, you mean, not Living Stereo 2, which took "original jackets" to the extreme of spreading multiple single large works across more discs than necessary each, even when that makes the split less musically sensible than a fewer number of discs, including a ludicrous mid-aria CD change in Otello; 3 discs of 20-something minutes; and 19 discs of 30-something minutes. To top it off, the printed timings for many of the CDs are incorrect. (For my amazon review which pointed this out and awarded 3 stars, a commenter deemed me "unappreciative and churlish." 4 years later, I still think that's hilarious!)

My top preference is for "original jackets plus" provided that the extras are well-matched. I consider this the default for LP-to-CD reissue sets.

I am completely fine with true original jackets with multi-LP sets fit onto a sensible number of CDs, like the Seon box. You end up with most CDs either around 45 minutes or around 75 minutes. More importantly, they all make sense. At current manufacturing costs, I do prefer this to cramming discs illogically.

[Ken B]

Pat B's phrase is good. Cramming discs illogically. Avoid that and all is well. I can figure out if these 50 discs are just 20 hours ...

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

When "original cover" edition are more pricey, I don't think it is primarily due to the cost of the extra discs. They are marketed as premium products and include some extra features to justify this. The Karajan 60's, 70's and 80's sets, for instance, contains remastered recordings, large fancy booklets with photos, essays and recording data, and generally deluxe packaging.

It's a different marketing strategy. I find it appeals to me for an artist that is of some importance to me. For instance, I ended up getting the Pollini Edition because I found it irritating that, even though I had the majority of his recordings, they were in a hodgepodge of different editions, sliced and diced so that half of one album he recorded was in one set, the other half was in another set, padded with recordings made at different times in his career. I found it satisfying to have is work laid out as he created it.

On the other hand, I have snatched up quite a number of the bare bones editions. I think the premium editions are more likely to appeal when the material has already been made available in numerous prior editions.

[Ken B]

When "original cover" edition are more pricey, I don't think it is primarily due to the cost of the extra discs. They are marketed as premium products and include some extra features to justify this. The Karajan 60's, 70's and 80's sets, for instance, contains remastered recordings, large fancy booklets with photos, essays and recording data, and generally deluxe packaging.

It's a different marketing strategy. I find it appeals to me for an artist that is of some importance to me. For instance, I ended up getting the Pollini Edition because I found it irritating that, even though I had the majority of his recordings, they were in a hodgepodge of different editions, sliced and diced so that half of one album he recorded was in one set, the other half was in another set, padded with recordings made at different times in his career. I found it satisfying to have is work laid out as he created it.

On the other hand, I have snatched up quite a number of the bare bones editions. I think the premium editions are more likely to appeal when the material has already been made available in numerous prior editions.

Good point. I have The Perahia whale. The French Baroque Opera box is a thing of beauty.
I am not buying anything these days but if I start again space efficiency is vital, so no more deluxe editions.

[Mookalafalas]

The DG Kubelik is now £59.99 for the Big box, from Amazon.co.uk.    Interestingly, their Arrau Monster box doubled in price since I ordered a couple of weeks ago (as did the Menuhin).  Unlike the Menuhin, my Arrau order hasn't been cancelled...yet.
   The new Chailly box is also just £74.84. 

[Jo498]

Thanks to the chatter on this thread, and previous mentions in other threads, I finally gave in and ordered the Silvestri ICON box off Amazon MP.....

thanks to this thread I finally listened to the Silvestri Box that had been sitting on my shelves for 2-3 years and I had only dipped into a few discs. (I am almost through, except for the Stravinsky symphony)The problem was/is that I don't care all that much about most of the music in there but enthusiasts had already been praising the older "Disky" collection to the skies, so I could not resist the EMI one when it was cheap. No doubt that Silvestri excels at colorful "orchestral spectaculars" and similar pieces, often with lots of attention to orchestral detail as well. There was a bassoon or contrabasson in the march to the scaffold I had never quite heard before so clearly (maybe too much, actually...)
I agree that the 4th seems the best of his recordings of the last 3 Tchaikovsky, or maybe Manfred but I hardly knew that one, so I cannot really comment.
So if one cares about most of the music in the box, get it. If one is rather lukewarm to most of it, I am not sure that Silvestri is sufficiently brilliant to change one's attitude.

[Brian]

thanks to this thread I finally listened to the Silvestri Box that had been sitting on my shelves for 2-3 years and I had only dipped into a few discs. (I am almost through, except for the Stravinsky symphony)The problem was/is that I don't care all that much about most of the music in there but enthusiasts had already been praising the older "Disky" collection to the skies, so I could not resist the EMI one when it was cheap. No doubt that Silvestri excels at colorful "orchestral spectaculars" and similar pieces, often with lots of attention to orchestral detail as well. There was a bassoon or contrabasson in the march to the scaffold I had never quite heard before so clearly (maybe too much, actually...)
I agree that the 4th seems the best of his recordings of the last 3 Tchaikovsky, or maybe Manfred but I hardly knew that one, so I cannot really comment.
So if one cares about most of the music in the box, get it. If one is rather lukewarm to most of it, I am not sure that Silvestri is sufficiently brilliant to change one's attitude.

Welcome back! I am very glad to see you posting again.

[Jo498]

My "most regretted" Box is Brilliant's "Golden Age of the Romantic Piano Concerto". I should have known that I would not really care about this repertoire at all...

I decided to get not any more of the huge artist dedicated boxes after I had snatched the pink Rubinstein fairly cheaply and hardly listened to it. However, as my collection was already very large when these huge boxes began to multiply I don't have many of them anyway. Besides Rubinstein I only have Francois, Meyer and Fischer from EMI.
(I have no problem with smallish boxes of 10-15 disks, like the two cheap ones with live Michelangeli and similar stuff. Of the "Original Masters" from the Universal sublabels I have several, also some of the old "Introuvables" and similar ones.)

This summer I made a point of listening to the complete Rubinstein and Francois (marked the sleeves with little stickers to make sure I got all at least once).
After this procedure my conclusion is that I might not have needed them but I am happy to have them and I am not going to sell them although this would probably get me several hundred EUR more for each than I paid myself - still too much of a collector for that, I guess. (I also doubt that people are really paying the almost 300 and 600 EUR respectively the marketplace sellers ask for these boxes.)

Although for both I had some of the recordings even before I bought the box and I could have gotten at least the most important stuff as singles or smaller boxes, this would have been time consuming and probably also more expensive. I paid 130 EUR for Rubinstein in autumn 2013 and about 39 EUR for Francois in 2010. Of the Francois I had an earlier Chopin-Box, so I could have gotten the Debussy and Ravel separately and be content with it. But it was so cheap and I was also interested in a few recordings that were almost impossible to get separately (e.g. his chamber music disc with the Franck quintet and the first Fauré quartet)

Of the Rubinstein I had probably almost 20 discs from earlier editions. Sure, I don't need 3-4 recordings of the Grieg concerto (a piece I don't even like much) with the same pianist and likewise for lots of other re-re-recordings in that box. But when Rubinstein is good, he is really good. And the similiarly comprehensive Collection  that appeared in the late 1990s had two problems: The backcover and spine were often printed "brown on brown and more seriously the disks stuck in these "book-sleeves" and often did get scratched the very first time they were taken out. And except for the pink cardboard box, I think the edition is quite nice with the solid book and all the original covers.

[Pat B]

thanks to this thread I finally listened to the Silvestri Box that had been sitting on my shelves for 2-3 years and I had only dipped into a few discs. (I am almost through, except for the Stravinsky symphony)The problem was/is that I don't care all that much about most of the music in there but enthusiasts had already been praising the older "Disky" collection to the skies, so I could not resist the EMI one when it was cheap. No doubt that Silvestri excels at colorful "orchestral spectaculars" and similar pieces, often with lots of attention to orchestral detail as well. There was a bassoon or contrabasson in the march to the scaffold I had never quite heard before so clearly (maybe too much, actually...)

If you're talking about the part I think you're talking about, that part is a trombone, or an ophicleide, or a tuba, depending on publisher. I think the Silvestri uses trombone. It's fun to hear it dominate but better for it to be in balance, like you said. It's marked mezzo-forte while the other winds are at forte and the strings at fortissimo.

[PerfectWagnerite]

There is a rather lengthy bassoon solo in the exposition of the M. to the Scaffold. But i think the part im  question is often played by a tuba.

Do you get the exposition repeat here? I hate when the repeat is not taken when the mvt is only 5 minutes long.

[Jo498]

No repeats in the Silvestri SF recording, as far as I recall.

[André]

Not exactly my cup of tea,  but I know some who respond to Ivor Bolton's approach in Bruckner. Be that as it may, JPC has the integral set of the numbered symphonies (1-9) for less than 10€ !!


https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/sinfonien-1-9/hnum/7400965