The Best

Started by MN Dave, December 10, 2007, 05:31:20 AM

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Papy Oli

Maybe an oddball, but my pick would be Arvo Part's Summa (choir version). Falsely disarmingly simple in appearance, but conveying such an emotion. I wouldn't consider it in any other way.  :) 0:)
Olivier

BachQ

Quote from: G...R...E...G... on December 10, 2007, 12:57:07 PM
you notice he left out something, right?.......

this is about "The Best", and we all know what D Minor's favorite is, unless he's been deceiving us all this time.

Greg, the OP queries "What is the single most perfect piece of music ever written?"  This is not the same question as "What is the greatest piece of music ever written?" ....... and it certainly is not the same question as "What is your single most favorite piece of music ever written?" 

Beethoven's 9th may be his "greatest" symphony, but it is not his "most perfect" symphony.

Likewise, Brahms 1st PC may be the "greatest" PC, but it is not necessarily the "most perfect" PC.

"Perfection" is merely one factor among many that contribute to the overall intrinsic "greatness" of a piece.

MN Dave

Right. The 9th is a great, shaggy beast of a symphony, but it's not perfect.

Mark

It doesn't exist. Sorry. :(

greg

Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 03:10:33 AM
Greg, the OP queries "What is the single most perfect piece of music ever written?"  This is not the same question as "What is the greatest piece of music ever written?" ....... and it certainly is not the same question as "What is your single most favorite piece of music ever written?" 

Beethoven's 9th may be his "greatest" symphony, but it is not his "most perfect" symphony.

Likewise, Brahms 1st PC may be the "greatest" PC, but it is not necessarily the "most perfect" PC.

"Perfection" is merely one factor among many that contribute to the overall intrinsic "greatness" of a piece.

despite the absence of vibrational fields in that post, it has an overall low accessibility...

MN Dave

Quote from: Mark on December 11, 2007, 04:53:53 AM
It doesn't exist. Sorry. :(

Most perfect if you're picky. ;)

BachQ

Quote from: G...R...E...G... on December 11, 2007, 05:08:02 AM
despite the absence of vibrational fields in that post, it has an overall low accessibility...

Greg,

Let me explain.  Multidimensional space in music is an endlessly divided totality of irregular aspects incessantly folded into each other.  Through the multidimensional laws of proportion, there is a direct connection between mind and the basic patterns of rhythmic energy vibrations. This connection has been the fundamental root problem of the extreme global crisis induced by western linear development that mirrors western linear logic.  The transcendental could be expressed in Greek culture with resonating harmonic proportions, but the concept of a smooth continuous rational universe could not be maintained with the linear discrete symbols of music-math and linear logic. From the seemingly random non-linear dialectical network of nodes, ordered patterns of meaning create harmonic structures of self-organization (i.e. spiro-vortex of the absolute void, the superstring, primary perception, negentropy, morphogenesis, cymatics, syllogisms of metaphor, and quantum logic). The infamous "butterfly effect" of chaos and complexity, where small changes have widespread and unpredictable systemic transformations, is simply a change in the fundamental node of the multidimensional pattern of harmonic oscillations.

Moreover, Greg, music hopes to draw its vitality from nature. A study of this ambition would produce a natural history of the art form, starting with the Pythagoreans and reaching beyond Hegel. Indeed, the dialectical reasoning in dispute between Hegelians and Marxists has been a rich source of such organicist beliefs. From the dialectical viewpoint a work of art is a conflict, with struggles, victories and defeats on every level. Which are the elements of dialectical Logic that Beethoven invokes? The most significant are Totality, the oppositions Quality/Quantity and Symmetry/Asymmetry, and of course the basic logical structure Thesis--Antithesis-Synthesis. Hegelian Logic is built up from primal elements into a network of higher and higher levels of synthesis. A synthesis is something both "preserved"--in the sense of "incorporated"--and "suspended." "Suspension" signifies either "raised to a higher level" or "ended" (all are possible meanings of aufgehoben).

A synthesis may be progressive and transformational; class conflict in Marx, for example, where a consequent revolution "incorporates" previous class antagonisms. Or it may be a dialectical suspension of opposing aspects, as in the conjunction of the part and the whole.  For Beethoven, musical logic reflects historical logic, and both operate under the same terms. He situates his revaluation of total chromaticism within the forward motion of history: Historical unsettiings, derangements of concepts, the anti-dogmas, always take place as history leaps into successive phases....The allchromatic continuum becomes questionable or insufficient as the exclusive source for content-making material.  The field upon which the dialectic unfolds is Totality. In Hegel, it is Reality, the essence behind the conflicted multitude of phenomena. For Beethoven, musical space is a Totality.

karlhenning


greg

Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 11:44:14 AM
Greg,

Let me explain.  Multidimensional space in music is an endlessly divided totality of irregular aspects incessantly folded into each other.  Through the multidimensional laws of proportion, there is a direct connection between mind and the basic patterns of rhythmic energy vibrations. This connection has been the fundamental root problem of the extreme global crisis induced by western linear development that mirrors western linear logic.  The transcendental could be expressed in Greek culture with resonating harmonic proportions, but the concept of a smooth continuous rational universe could not be maintained with the linear discrete symbols of music-math and linear logic. From the seemingly random non-linear dialectical network of nodes, ordered patterns of meaning create harmonic structures of self-organization (i.e. spiro-vortex of the absolute void, the superstring, primary perception, negentropy, morphogenesis, cymatics, syllogisms of metaphor, and quantum logic). The infamous "butterfly effect" of chaos and complexity, where small changes have widespread and unpredictable systemic transformations, is simply a change in the fundamental node of the multidimensional pattern of harmonic oscillations.

Moreover, Greg, music hopes to draw its vitality from nature. A study of this ambition would produce a natural history of the art form, starting with the Pythagoreans and reaching beyond Hegel. Indeed, the dialectical reasoning in dispute between Hegelians and Marxists has been a rich source of such organicist beliefs. From the dialectical viewpoint a work of art is a conflict, with struggles, victories and defeats on every level. Which are the elements of dialectical Logic that Beethoven invokes? The most significant are Totality, the oppositions Quality/Quantity and Symmetry/Asymmetry, and of course the basic logical structure Thesis--Antithesis-Synthesis. Hegelian Logic is built up from primal elements into a network of higher and higher levels of synthesis. A synthesis is something both "preserved"--in the sense of "incorporated"--and "suspended." "Suspension" signifies either "raised to a higher level" or "ended" (all are possible meanings of aufgehoben).

A synthesis may be progressive and transformational; class conflict in Marx, for example, where a consequent revolution "incorporates" previous class antagonisms. Or it may be a dialectical suspension of opposing aspects, as in the conjunction of the part and the whole.  For Beethoven, musical logic reflects historical logic, and both operate under the same terms. He situates his revaluation of total chromaticism within the forward motion of history: Historical unsettiings, derangements of concepts, the anti-dogmas, always take place as history leaps into successive phases....The allchromatic continuum becomes questionable or insufficient as the exclusive source for content-making material.  The field upon which the dialectic unfolds is Totality. In Hegel, it is Reality, the essence behind the conflicted multitude of phenomena. For Beethoven, musical space is a Totality.
全然分からなかったよ。


BachQ


karlhenning

Quote from: MN Dave on December 11, 2007, 11:58:53 AM
Lazy.

Not I, sir.

I don't believe you can settle on a One Best of All, without in essence elevating one set of aesthetic preferences above others.  The musical banquet is much too rich, for me to fixate upon one work, one composer, one style.

karlhenning

Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 12:01:49 PM
That's a very ambitious post ........

It was! He sought to draw me into a post of more than one sentence, and he met with success  8)

BachQ


greg

Quote from: karlhenning on December 11, 2007, 12:01:59 PM
Not I, sir.

I don't believe you can settle on a One Best of All, without in essence elevating one set of aesthetic preferences above others.  The musical banquet is much too rich, for me to fixate upon one work, one composer, one style.
so you're saying there isn't one work that you enjoy more than any other (on a regular basis)?

karlhenning

Quote from: G...R...E...G... on December 11, 2007, 12:04:06 PM
so you're saying there isn't one work that you enjoy more than any other (on a regular basis)?

Correct.  There is certainly a group of 50 works which I enjoy more than 300 other works, though  8)


Great Gable

#37
Quote from: D Minor on December 11, 2007, 11:44:14 AM
Greg,

Let me explain.  Multidimensional space in music is an endlessly divided totality of irregular aspects incessantly folded into each other.  Through the multidimensional laws of proportion, there is a direct connection between mind and the basic patterns of rhythmic energy vibrations. This connection has been the fundamental root problem of the extreme global crisis induced by western linear development that mirrors western linear logic.  The transcendental could be expressed in Greek culture with resonating harmonic proportions, but the concept of a smooth continuous rational universe could not be maintained with the linear discrete symbols of music-math and linear logic. From the seemingly random non-linear dialectical network of nodes, ordered patterns of meaning create harmonic structures of self-organization (i.e. spiro-vortex of the absolute void, the superstring, primary perception, negentropy, morphogenesis, cymatics, syllogisms of metaphor, and quantum logic). The infamous "butterfly effect" of chaos and complexity, where small changes have widespread and unpredictable systemic transformations, is simply a change in the fundamental node of the multidimensional pattern of harmonic oscillations.

Moreover, Greg, music hopes to draw its vitality from nature. A study of this ambition would produce a natural history of the art form, starting with the Pythagoreans and reaching beyond Hegel. Indeed, the dialectical reasoning in dispute between Hegelians and Marxists has been a rich source of such organicist beliefs. From the dialectical viewpoint a work of art is a conflict, with struggles, victories and defeats on every level. Which are the elements of dialectical Logic that Beethoven invokes? The most significant are Totality, the oppositions Quality/Quantity and Symmetry/Asymmetry, and of course the basic logical structure Thesis--Antithesis-Synthesis. Hegelian Logic is built up from primal elements into a network of higher and higher levels of synthesis. A synthesis is something both "preserved"--in the sense of "incorporated"--and "suspended." "Suspension" signifies either "raised to a higher level" or "ended" (all are possible meanings of aufgehoben).

A synthesis may be progressive and transformational; class conflict in Marx, for example, where a consequent revolution "incorporates" previous class antagonisms. Or it may be a dialectical suspension of opposing aspects, as in the conjunction of the part and the whole.  For Beethoven, musical logic reflects historical logic, and both operate under the same terms. He situates his revaluation of total chromaticism within the forward motion of history: Historical unsettiings, derangements of concepts, the anti-dogmas, always take place as history leaps into successive phases....The allchromatic continuum becomes questionable or insufficient as the exclusive source for content-making material.  The field upon which the dialectic unfolds is Totality. In Hegel, it is Reality, the essence behind the conflicted multitude of phenomena. For Beethoven, musical space is a Totality.

If you're going to plagiarise someone else's ideas it might be an idea to quote your source! You wouldn't want people thinking the ideas were your own would you! Or would you?
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-1832536_ITM



Don

Quote from: G...R...E...G... on December 10, 2007, 12:57:07 PM
you notice he left out something, right?.......

this is about "The Best", and we all know what D Minor's favorite is, unless he's been deceiving us all this time.

I guess we all don't know, because I have no idea what D Minor's favorite anything is.

Joe Barron

One piece of music I've always considered perfect is the Adagio from Mahler's Symphony No. 6. It seems to me the most unified thing he ever wrote, growing naturally and organically from the first seeds of melody planted at the start, without the sudden shifts and breaks  in continuity that characterize many of his longer movements. It's entry of a piece, and it's so good that it makes the rest of the symphony something of a chore. I'm either waiting mpatiently through the first two movements or still coming down during the last.