The Puritani "high F" from credeasi misera

Started by Morigan, December 13, 2007, 04:11:47 PM

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Morigan

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jf-lD8_iMs

Cover you ears!

I think it sounds best in falsetto, like Pavarotti does it.

Klassikal

#1
I actually hadn't heard some of these! It always sounds strange in a way, it's so high in a male's voice. But, I don't always agree when people call the note falsetto. All are clearly supported, and the timbre shift cannot be judged to easily. Try to play two notes an octave away from each other on the piano, sounds unblended, doesn't it? Now play the full scale from the lowest to highest. Exactly. Sounds blended. I think the interval and the fact that it is so high, may mean that simply the tenor voice sounds like that when going up full voice. There is no way you will hear the "thickness" of a high C in a high F(!).
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Lilas Pastia

#2
Seconded. But Kunde is very good too. I didn't know his name, but I'll keep him in mind. Florez doesn't attempt the F in his youtube extract, but he's still the most interesting to hear - after Pavarotti, who IMHO owned the role.

Alfredo Kraus really has the chops for that too (nice extract with Freni. But is it an F ?? BTW Freni almost steals the show with her high note at the end of the scene !

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on December 13, 2007, 06:22:39 PM

Alfredo Kraus really has the chops for that too (nice extract with Freni. But is it an F ?? BTW Freni almost steals the show with her high note at the end of the scene !

This is from earlier on in the Act, and is a top D. Even Di Stefano, on the Callas recording, manages it, though I rather wish he hadn't tried, it being a particularly unlovely note. Kraus, on the other hand is spectacular.
\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: Morigan on December 13, 2007, 04:11:47 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jf-lD8_iMs

Cover you ears!

I think it sounds best in falsetto, like Pavarotti does it.

I prefer Gedda's approach - a judicious mix of head and chest tones. Pavarotii's falsetto sounds completely divorced from the rest of his voice.

But, to be honest, if a tenor can't manage the note with grace, ease and beauty (and most can't), I'd rather they went for the lower option, which is a much more musical solution.
\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Lilas Pastia

#5
I read in the youtube comments (lots of opinionated opera fans out there!) that it's impossible for a tenor to use chest tones on a high F.

Pavarotti's F is in falsetto voice, but it doesn't sound like a squealing pig  :D. It does sound like a stunt, but the tone is still pure and supported. Duval on the first Sutherland set is something else. Did you hear that one?

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on December 14, 2007, 04:06:04 AM
I read in the youtube comments (lots of opinionated opera fans out there!) that it's impossible for a tenor to use chest tones on a high F. Pavarotti's F is in falsetto voice, but it doesn't sound like a squaling pig  :D. It does sound like a stunt, but the tone is still pure and supported.

I agree with you and prefer the Pavarotti falsetto, albeit supported, even longer tone than anyone else's.
Bringing the chest up there is vocal suicide. (Rossini is credited with "Lascia il 'do in petto' a casa".) The Pav simply had a bigger powerhouse of sound, so could afford such luxuries. Most of the others were simply funny.  ;D  ::)

ZB
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

knight66

I thought Kunde was very good, though the one with the piano accompaniment is clearly in fact Florence Foster-Jenkins and not the tenor named on the clip.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Sarastro

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on December 14, 2007, 01:58:49 AM
I prefer Gedda's approach - a judicious mix of head and chest tones.
Gedda is one of my favorite singers, but his high F is more like a woman's groan...excuse me for such a comparison, but high F is a challenge, and maybe a very cruel challenge. We now live in the 21-st century with no Rubini's, having Dupre's technique.
I prefer Kunde.

Slezak

  The only performance I have ever heard where a tenor hits this full voice, and brings it down(controlled), is the old recording with Albert Da Costa. He had a rather heavy voice, and it's amazing he could even get up there at all, but his is THE recording for the high F.  SS