Karajan 100......almost

[knight66]

Next year is the centenary of the birth of Karajan. Getting it's foot in the door a little early, Gramophone's January edition has devoted about a dozen pages to a group of articles reassessing his legacy. There are a number of judgements with which I don't agree; for instance, the suggestion that his Bruckner is grand sound with no real content. The list of must have recordings is extremely short and misses a number I love dearly.

On the cover disc there is an interview with Karajan at the point he was taking the first installment of his Ring Cycle to The Met in New York. That startling, rasping voice always sounds incongruous to me, I imagined a dark brown pleasant tone; but reality is often a bit of a shock, (to put it mildly). He is asked about his reasons for recording operas before the run of performances. Despite his explanations, which are at least as much practical as they are artistic, I still think it would have been better to take the performances into the studio once everyone had jelled and were perhaps deepening their performances. Better still; live performances recorded on the wing, instead of the safe, get it perfect opportunity afforded in the studio.

As we already knew, he arranged things this way round so that the cast could listen repeatedly to the recording in its rough edit and really get used to the piece and what Karajan wanted. They then blocked in the stage moves using the edit and saving their voices; it allowed the singers to concentrate on learning the production. Then, it ought all to come together more professionally. I wonder if it ever meant the run seemed a little stilted, did he take risks on the night?

The intent with the Ring was then to film the productions using the final recorded sound. Of course the idea never came to completion. I have not much liked the visual aspect of a number of his video releases and tend to prefer sound only.

For the anniversary, there will be a number of releases including DVDs of Boris and of a Missa Solemnis. A complete edition of Karajan and the Symphony and to kick off, a never issued before recording of him conducting the Bach Double Violin concerto....not basically admired.

The gist of the group of articles seems to imply that he was overrated and that his reputation has gone down. It becomes like a human stock-market game. A gamble about pasts and futures. How he would manage in these days I do wonder, his sheer ubiquity might be telling against him and the relative famine now might have urged him to be more discriminating; perhaps less would have been more. However, there is so very much to enjoy, many discs I would never part with.

I will mention just one of many: The DGG Debussy La Mer with the Ravel second suite from Daphnis; everything on that disc seems as fresh and exciting and delicate, seductive and beautiful now as when I first heard it nearly 40 years ago.

Mike

[bhodges]

...for instance, the suggestion that his Bruckner is grand sound with no real content.

Like, wha--?  Well, just proves how many differing ears there are out there, but I guess if someone doesn't hear "content" then it would be difficult to persuade otherwise.  To me those last recordings of the Bruckner 7th and 8th with Vienna pretty much speak for themselves, but obviously everyone hears things differently.

I don't find Karajan overrated, but (like many other aspects of classical music interpretation) I do notice perhaps some "historical correction," allowing that there are other approaches to Bruckner with equal validity.  The sound he achieved with the Berlin ensemble in its glory days was mightily impressive, but I admire what Rattle is doing these days just as much, although it's a completely different sound.

And I actually have not heard that Ravel recording in years, and should revisit it.  (Not sure I have it on CD, actually.)  In any case, hard to believe that we have another notable centenary approaching.

--Bruce

[MN Dave]

I wonder how much that symphony box will cost. And how big it is.

[M forever]

Next year is the centenary of the birth of Karajan. Getting it's foot in the door a little early, Gramophone's January edition has devoted about a dozen pages to a group of articles reassessing his legacy. There are a number of judgements with which I don't agree; for instance, the suggestion that his Bruckner is grand sound with no real content.

Surprising, given that many of his Bruckner recordings were reviewed very positively by Osborne in Gramophone. Who wrote that?
That suggestion is indeed total nonsense. Karajan's Bruckner had a lot of depth. Its rather grandiose manner doesn't detract from that. It is not the only way to conduct Bruckner, of course, but he had some special things to say about the music.

On the cover disc there is an interview with Karajan at the point he was taking the first installment of his Ring Cycle to The Met in New York. That startling, rasping voice always sounds incongruous to me, I imagined a dark brown pleasant tone; but reality is often a bit of a shock, (to put it mildly).

He had to have some kind of operation (or operations even, I don't remember exactly for what and if there were several) on the throat when he was a young man. I hope you will find a way to live with that.

In German, while his voice was indeed a little raspy, he did actually have a rather pleasant way of speaking, simple and to the point - he didn't really like to talk about music and music making too much anyway - but with a nice dose of Austrian lilt and charme.

He is asked about his reasons for recording operas before the run of performances. Despite his explanations, which are at least as much practical as they are artistic, I still think it would have been better to take the performances into the studio once everyone had jelled and were perhaps deepening their performances. Better still; live performances recorded on the wing, instead of the safe, get it perfect opportunity afforded in the studio.

One of the main reasons that some of the recordings, for instance the Ring, were made before the actual performances was that the Salzburg Festival was a mostly privately funded operation (with some help from the Austrian state though) and he basically made DG pay for all the rehearsals because they wanted a Ring from him badly after Decca had released theirs with Solti.

I will mention just one of many: The DGG Debussy La Mer with the Ravel second suite from Daphnis; everything on that disc seems as fresh and exciting and delicate, seductive and beautiful now as when I first heard it nearly 40 years ago.

That recording was indeed a milestone. It is highly interesting for the blend of German and French orchestral styles he achieved there. Pretty unique. Often copied, never equaled (in that specific way). Unfortunately, it has also led a lot of people to get a wrong idea of La Mer as being an impressionist work. But it is still very nice. I heard him conduct these works in Berlin in the 80s, when they did them again for the last DG recording. They also recorded these usual suspects for EMI in the 70s. I haven't listened to that disc in a long time.

[knight66]

Surprising, given that many of his Bruckner recordings were reviewed very positively by Osborne in Gramophone. Who wrote that?

A quote from an unnamed Times reviewer from 1965 about a live Eighth. "bland and empty of personality....the shell of a great cathedral without altar or cross."

As to his voice; thank you, I shall live.

The article is by Peter Quantrill, to be fair, his list is a top 10 of Karajan's recordings. He mentions a Strauss Elektra on Orfeo that I did not know about; that must be worth investigating. The comment on the performance is, "Another feminine psychodrama playing to Karajan's musical and dramatic preoccupations"?

Mike

[MishaK]

A quote from an unnamed Times reviewer from 1965 about a live Eighth. "bland and empty of personality....the shell of a great cathedral without altar or cross."

That has got to be the cheapest and easiest line in Bruckner critcism. I can't tell you how many times I have heard this levelled against any of a diverse range of Bruckner conductors.

[knight66]

Yes, it was a nicely turned phrase, but it does not connect to any of the Bruckner I know of that Karajan recorded. But he has always been the kind of conductor to cause polarised opinions. A little subheading of the article that made me grind my teeth was this, 'Jackboots and pianissimi' It would be good to be able to discuss his legacy without this kind of pejorative remark.

Mike

[karlhenning]

'Jackboots and pianissimi'

Oof.

[Sean]

Knight & M, the early Karajan La mer is among most extraordinary recordings of music making ever made, the definition of understated passion and exhilarating control in the midst of torrents of sound; the last few bars are incredible. Furtwangler's visionary splendours were very similar of course.

By the way, these composers were born in the same year

ANDERSON, Leroy             1908-75      American
KABELAC, Miloslav            1908-79      Czech
FRUMERIE, Gunnar             1908-87       Swedish
LARSSON, Lars-Erik             1908-87       Swedish
WORDSWORTH, William             1908-88       English
MESSIAEN, Olivier             1908-92       French
FERGUSON, Howard             1908-99    Northern Irish/ English
CARTER, Elliott                1908-        American

[MISHUGINA]

The gist of the group of articles seems to imply that he was overrated and that his reputation has gone down. It becomes like a human stock-market game. A gamble about pasts and futures. How he would manage in these days I do wonder, his sheer ubiquity might be telling against him and the relative famine now might have urged him to be more discriminating; perhaps less would have been more. However, there is so very much to enjoy, many discs I would never part with.

So, does Gramophone has some sort of anti-Karajan bias as much as their fondness for arse-kissing British artists like Simon Rattle?

I have some sort of mixed emotions about Karajan, but his Berliners belong to my top-five of greatest dream ensembles ever (other in list including Klemp/Philharmonia, current Lucerne Festival and Vienna Philharmonic, etc). His best recordings for me including the Stravinsky Apollo and Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (actual recording used in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining) and Debussy's La Mer among few. And I REALLY yearn to listen to his 2nd Viennese School set which was so raved about, including the supposedly unsurpassed Berg's Three Orchestral Pieces.

[Mark]

So, does Gramophone has some sort of anti-Karajan bias as much as their fondness for arse-kissing British artists like Simon Rattle?

I'm not sure that's what Mike's saying. I've yet to read the features for myself, but I do know that the Gramophone's editor, in his introduction, expresses a good deal of praise for Karajan. I can't imagine they'd dedicate so much editorial space to someone simply to do a biased 'hatchet job'.

[knight66]

No, it is not a let's denegrate Karajan job. For instance there is a vapid and rather dull piece by Mirella Freni, entirely favourable, though really more about her. She explains how he cried after one of her early performances. Seemingly only the second time he had ever cried, the first being when his mother died. However, it is fairly well documented that he cried on hearing Kathleen Ferrier, who predates Freni. So, as I say, it tells me more about Freni than about Karajan. Something from Christa Ludwig might have had more interest, also more direct material from the orchestral musicians who worked extensively with him.

As to the Simon Rattle.....yes, tiresome stuff. He is a conductor I generally don't connect with; though Haitink is also a mystery to me and he is so much admired generally; it has to be me who is missing the point.

Mike

[M forever]

Something from Christa Ludwig might have had more interest, also more direct material from the orchestral musicians who worked extensively with him.

You can find a lot of testimonies like that in Osborne's biography, including a lot of statements and recollections from people who played under him in the Philharmonia. It's surprising that that resource was apparently not tapped into, given that Osborne is (or was?) basically the senior critic there. Or maybe, because Osborne is sometimes - in my opinion, unjustly - accused of being something like "Karajan's court reporter", some of the younger writers there wanted to distance themselves from him by being more "Karajan-critical".
Don't remember if there was much from Ludwig in there, but that would in general be very interesting. Karajan and she knew each other for a very long time. Her mother sang in Aachen when he was music director there in the 30s.

There are a lot of interesting recollections about Karajan and many other conductors in the audio memoires of Friedrich Witt, the former principal bass of the BP: http://www.friedrich-witt.de/
But - sorry, only in German...

[knight66]

I have the Osborne book, I think there is only a little from her, but she has produced her own biography. Who knows why Freni was highlighted. I know Ludwig felt she would sing anything he asked her to and it would have been good to know how he dealt with her that got her to that point of trust. I did hear her sing Eboli in a live relay and that seemed not to suit her at all. In a very different instance, she sang the alto solo line in his studio recording of Die Schöpfung. This in fact constitutes roughly eight bars in the general ensemble at the end. So clearly she was pretty devoted to working with him.

Incidentally; the Penguin Guide repeated year on year that Ludwig sang Eve, her distinctive voice clear for all to hear. It made me wonder whether the critic had bothered to listen to the recording; as Eve was so obviously being sung by Janowitz.

Mike

[PerfectWagnerite]

I have the Osborne book, I think there is only a little from her, but she has produced her own biography. Who knows why Freni was highlighted. I know Ludwig felt she would sing anything he asked her to and it would have been good to know how he dealt with her that got her to that point of trust. I did hear her sing Eboli in a live relay and that seemed not to suit her at all. to listen to the recording; as Eve was so obviously being sung by Janowitz.

Mike

Well IMHO Ludwig COULD sing anything, in her prime that is. In the Tristan recording she would have made a better Isolde than Helga Dernesh.