German Requiem

[Michel]

I have Klemperer, but fancied trying something else.  Anyone have any views on this:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5422

Also, as a treat, feel free to enjoy the wonderful Jerome Hines singing that I just found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC1gJSjvt-A&feature=related

[MN Dave]

I love that Kubelik recording but I'm not sure whether anyone else here has even listened to it. Every time I mention it, I get nuttin'.

[Mark]

Top three choices from my collection of 15:


Sinopoli | Czech Philharmonic | Popp | Brendel (Wolfgang ) | DG

Rattle | BPO | Roschmann | Quasthoff | EMI

Norrington | London Classical Players | Dawson | Bar | Virgin


Special mention should also be made of the following three:


Haitink | VPO | Janowitz | Krause | Philips

Maazel | New Philharmonia | Cotrubas | Prey | Sony

Herreweghe | Orchestre des Champs Elyees | Oelze | Finley | Harmonia Mundi


If you want something every bit as powerful as the Klemperer (more so, emotionally, IMO), get Sinopoli.

If you want a very clean, precise, 'direct' approach (a 'fail-safe', if you will), get Rattle.

If you want a HIP approach that brings out all the score's finer details (though Herreweghe is good here, too), get Norrington.

[Michel]

Top three choices from my collection of 15:


Sinopoli | Czech Philharmonic | Popp | Brendel (Wolfgang ) | DG

Rattle | BPO | Roschmann | Quasthoff | EMI

Norrington | London Classical Players | Dawson | Bar | Virgin


Special mention should also be made of the following three:


Haitink | VPO | Janowitz | Krause | Philips

Maazel | New Philharmonia | Cotrubas | Prey | Sony

Herreweghe | Orchestre des Champs Elyees | Oelze | Finley | Harmonia Mundi


If you want something every bit as powerful as the Klemperer (more so, emotionally, IMO), get Sinopoli.

If you want a very clean, precise, 'direct' approach (a 'fail-safe', if you will), get Rattle.

If you want a HIP approach that brings out all the score's finer details (though Herreweghe is good here, too), get Norrington.

I rarely hear most of these recommended - why do you recommended them?

[knight66]

Sorry, I would disagree over the Haitink, it is extremely slow without the energy that some others bring to the piece even at slower speeds. Should Janowitz take your fancy, she is on a more cogent version conducted by Karajan. But of all the versions I have heard, Klemperer is still to my mind the most exciting. For a lighter weight version in terms of the number of forces used, Gardiner's version is good, but misses some of the gravitas that I look for in the piece. The orchestral sound has plenty of colour, not in the least clogged and the choir sing well.

Mike

[Mark]

I rarely hear most of these recommended - why do you recommended them?

Well, I recommend my top three for ... er ... the reasons I gave? And I suggested the other three as these provide a real contrast to my top three.

Sorry, I would disagree over the Haitink, it is extremely slow without the energy that some others bring to the piece even at slower speeds.

Slow, yes, but beautifully played/sung and recorded.

Should Janowitz take your fancy, she is on a more cogent version conducted by Karajan.

I have the Karajan with Tomowa-Sintow. Had I not heard so many other recordings, I might've suggested this one.

But of all the versions I have heard, Klemperer is still to my mind the most exciting.

Each to his/her own. I find the Klemperer overbearing; its sheer orchestral weight seems at times to drown out the details of the sung text.

For a lighter weight version in terms of the number of forces used, Gardiner's version is good, but misses some of the gravitas that I look for in the piece. The orchestral sound has plenty of colour, not in the least clogged and the choir sing well.

I find this version rather anaemic. It has a thinness of sound and texture that really doesn't convince me at all.

[knight66]

Well Mark, that is what it is about here, contrasting opinions. I also don't much respond to Gardiner's version, but it is a contrast from a lot of the others.

I fully expect Paul to buy all the ones mentioned.

Mike

[Holden]

I know this doesn't answer the question but the Klemperer is one of the few disks I own that I've never felt the need to seek put anything better.

[jwinter]

I know this doesn't answer the question but the Klemperer is one of the few disks I own that I've never felt the need to seek put anything better.

I've tried several other versions, some excellent (Karajan, Sinopoli, Lehmann, Walter, Abbado, Previn), but I always come back to the Klemperer.  If I had to recommend something else it would probably be Abbado on DVD, a very fine version and I like having subtitles (nerd that I am  ).   Fritz Lehmann is worth a listen and can be found for pennies, but he's V-E-R-Y slow -- good for Celibidache fans... 

[MN Dave]

See? Still no one has heard that Kubelik.

[Mark]

While I'm on my GMG sabbatical over the winter, I might well make this work the first subject of the first of my planned 'Comparative Listening' threads. It seems to me that the Klemperer recording has so oft been recommended, bought and never ventured beyond that the time has come to demonstrate - yes, with musical excerpts - that if not better can be had, then certainly different. For me, Otto put too much into the mix ... yet what he added actually had the effect of taking away something from this work. Had I heard only Klemperer's interpretation, I'd never have known how much there is to be heard. And I'd have been all the poorer for this - as I firmly believe those listeners are who've gone with received wisdom and popped Otto onto their shelves without auditioning other conductors' accounts.

[Papy Oli]

This was the first version of the German Requiem i bought :



Alexander Rahbari / Czech Slovak Radio Symphony Orch / Miriam Gauci - Eduard tumanigan / Naxos

However much i like Klemperer, his German requiem never really engaged me at all, and i always go back to that Naxos recording instead. The "Ihr habt nun traurigkeit" on this version is simply heartbreaking.

[Mark]

This was the first version of the German Requiem i bought :



Alexander Rahbari / Czech Slovak Radio Symphony Orch / Miriam Gauci - Eduard tumanigan / Naxos

However much i like Klemperer, his German requiem never really engaged me at all, and i always go back to that Naxos recording instead. The "Ihr habt nun traurigkeit" on this version is simply heartbreaking.

I'll get slammed for saying this, but I actually reach more regularly for this Naxos traversal than for the Klemperer.

[Keemun]

This was the first version of the German Requiem i bought :



Alexander Rahbari / Czech Slovak Radio Symphony Orch / Miriam Gauci - Eduard tumanigan / Naxos

However much i like Klemperer, his German requiem never really engaged me at all, and i always go back to that Naxos recording instead. The "Ihr habt nun traurigkeit" on this version is simply heartbreaking.

I'll get slammed for saying this, but I actually reach more regularly for this Naxos traversal than for the Klemperer.

What your thoughts are on this criticism of the Naxos recording by Gramophone? 

"They have an admirable choir: no need at all to be ashamed of it. However, it is placed so far back in the recording-balance that it almost sounds like voices coming from off-stage. In the first movement, the solo oboe on its entry has more presence than the whole of the choir. In the fourth (''Wie lieblich''), the orchestra's fp markings at ''Meine Seele verlanget'' are the only aurally vivid feature. The general acoustic is unhelpful too, presenting far too hazy a wash of sound. The reverberance also dulls the effect of both soloists, and in the closing bars of ''Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit'' the clarinet and flute have more immediacy than the soprano has had throughout."
______

Also, anyone familiar with this Previn/LSO recording? 

[Mark]

What your thoughts are on this criticism of the Naxos recording by Gramophone?

I'll need to listen again to be sure.  

Also, anyone familiar with this Previn/LSO recording? 

Ha! Got that, too!

It's ... okay. There's really nothing very wrong with it, nor is it particularly remarkable, IMO.

[Bogey]

I know many cringe when they here the name Robert Shaw, but I always enjoy his work:

[Mark]

I know many cringe when they here the name Robert Shaw, but I always enjoy his work:

I'd like to hear that. I have only the English language translation he made of the work, which was recorded after his death.

[Mark]

Just been spinning the Naxos recording. The Gramophone are right about that oboe entry - it does dominate. But what the Naxos CD has which so many other recordings (at least, among those I own) lack is a sense of space. The engineering is haphazard, for sure, but when just the choir are 'in focus' there's a feeling that you're hearing them 'in situ'; that the venue is as much a part of the music-making as the singers and instrumentalists.

And yes, this is no choir of which to be ashamed.

[Mark]

Hmm ... I knew I wasn't too impressed with the LSO Live Previn release. A quick revisit reminds me that it's all too 'in yer face' - and dry, on account of the Barbican's legendarily 'no-moisture-please-we're-British' acoustic. All the voices seem to be upfront and centre, providing no contrast in louder passages, and making the audio picture feel (at times, uncomfortably) cramped.

[Keemun]

Mark, thanks for the fast reviews.   I think I'll get the Naxos recording from eMusic but leave the Previn/LSO one for now.