Debussy's Corner

[Wendell_E]

BTW, what's with this thread? I see a mishmash of quotes of text I haven't seen posted, and responses to things not even written.

Some of these posts were originally an off-topic tangent in the "Prokofiev vs. Stravinsky" thread, but a moderator was good enough put 'em in here.  For which I would like to add my thanks.

[karlhenning]

"I continually marvel at the slow pace, tedium, monochrome wash, somnolence, indistinct rhythm, and sustained boredom in Debussy's Pelléas et Mélisande..."

Why, Eric, don't you see the hommage in that post's subtly refined phrasing?

I just think it's a shame that you are incapable of enjoying Pelléas, or La mer, or Faune, without the need to trash other pieces by Debussy, pieces which in fact are just as romantic, just as sensitive, just as magical, just as refined, just as otherworldly, just as masterly (and in some respects, more so) than the ones which enjoy your especial favor.

[Homo Aestheticus]

But  Jeux  is much more austere and 'modern'.

[Kullervo]

But  Jeux  is much more austere and 'modern'.

I think Jeux is very lighthearted and joyful. But then, my favorite piece by Debussy is En Blanc et Noir — you probably "execrate" that as well.

[karlhenning]

But  Jeux  is much more austere and 'modern'.

Eric, you're just slinging adjectives.  There are 200 pieces which come to my mind in response to the word austere, way ahead of Jeux.

Jeux is arguably Debussy's chef-d'oeuvre, and entirely characteristic of him.

I think Jeux is very lighthearted and joyful.

It is, indeed.

[karlhenning]

. . . my favorite piece by Debussy is En Blanc et Noir . . . .

A piece which (I blush to say) I haven't gotten around to listening to, yet!

[jowcol]

I might as well weigh in on another of my favorite composers here. 

First, I was drawn to him because he championed the work of Mussorgsky, my first real musical hero.  There is a great quote of his about Mussorgsky (that I haven't yet found on line) that reduces me to tears each time I read it.


Although I tend to go for orchestral music, I still think that Debussy's solo piano music is his greatest work.  In the best of his Preludes, it's like he managed to erase 300 years of keyboard tradition form his mind and approach the piano as a completely new instrument.  I don't like all of the preludes equally-- but that may be my problem, not his.  Actually, I may have more faves in Book II.  The ones the kill me the most are:

Book 1
Voiles (Veils or sails): Modéré
Des pas sur la neige (Footsteps in the Snow): Triste et lent  Wonderfully dark and tense.  That last chord is so SICK!
La cathédrale engloutie (The Engulfed Cathedral): Profondément calme  I don't even know where to start.

Book 2
Brouillards (Mists): Modéré
Feuilles mortes (Dead Leaves): Lent et mélancolique
La Puerta del Vino (The Wine Gate): Mouvement de Habanera -- This is relentless.  Some of the most powerful stuff he's done.
Canope (Canopic jar): Très calme et doucement triste --  This may now be my favorite. The opening chords  sound a bit like some of Mussorgsky's late piano works (The Tear, The Village), but he tosses in some very "random" elements, and the ending is overwhelming.

For other piano works, Hommage a Rammeau has the killer lick in the first two minutes-- the best Debussy sound bite I know.

I have a two-piano arrangement of Nocturnes I like- particularly the first movement that Debussy wanted to be completely monochromatic.

Danse Sacree and Danse Profane-- I love them.   Particularly the Profane, but then again, I like anything profane!


Orchestral stuff:
Something may be wrong with me-- but I only like parts of La Mer-- I find the Nocturnes much more enjoyable and consistent from end to end.  Jeux is fine by be-- a bit more mysterious than some.  The Romance for Soprano Sax deserves more attention.  Children's Corner is nice-- hard to turn down Golliwog's Cakewalk.

Faun is good-- there's others I love more.

It's funny-- I've found the Ravel String Quartet that usally gets bundled with the Debussy quartet sounds more like Debussy than the Debussy one.

I won't comment on P&M, or the previous thread on that, except to say I don't know how one can assume any real meaning to adjectives describing music beyond describing one's subjective reaction.  I call Albinoni's Adagio a beautifully moving work, and one of my best friends called it a dull, depression dirge.  Who was right?   If I find a reviewer that agrees with me, what does that provide?  If you want to talk about the contents of the score in terms of musical notation (use of whole tone, pentatonic, etc) , you can prove something, but adjectives aren't provable.  Some people find hip-hop as "dreamy".  Who am I to correct them?  It's like the 6 blind men arguing over what is an elephant where they are all touching a different part.


wjp

[karlhenning]

I might as well weigh in on another of my favorite composers here [. . . .]

Thanks for posting! Very interesting, all of it.

When I scare up En blanc et noir, I will be sure to check out the 2-piano Nocturnes.  These were actually the first Debussy pieces I got to know well;  we played Nuages & Fêtes in an all-state orchestra when I was in high school.

I was leafing through a bio of Debussy last night, which seriously whetted my interest in Khamma. Anyone know it?

[bhodges]

I was leafing through a bio of Debussy last night, which seriously whetted my interest in Khamma. Anyone know it?

I have it on this CD, which I bought primarily for Ravel's Daphnis.  Haven't listened to Khamma in awhile but I recall liking it. 

--Bruce

[jowcol]

Thanks for posting! Very interesting, all of it.

When I scare up En blanc et noir, I will be sure to check out the 2-piano Nocturnes.  These were actually the first Debussy pieces I got to know well;  we played Nuages & Fêtes in an all-state orchestra when I was in high school.

I was leafing through a bio of Debussy last night, which seriously whetted my interest in Khamma. Anyone know it?

I have it on this collection here:   http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Orchestral-Works-II/dp/B000HWZANI

I must admit that I may need to go back to it.  It didn't really grab me at first, and I was interested in the eastern spin it had.

[karlhenning]

I have it on this collection here:   http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Orchestral-Works-II/dp/B000HWZANI

I've got the Vol I of that (in fact, listening to Jeux on that very two-fer as we speak) . . . so Vol II may be in my near future.

[jowcol]

Vol II is nice because it has a lot of the rarer material.  The Antique Toybox was my favorite as I recalled. 
None of these rarities really stunned me-- but it's always nice to have more Debussy....

[Homo Aestheticus]

Hi Jowcol,

Thanks for sharing... 

Something may be wrong with me-- but I only like parts of La Mer

I understand this... Even though I love the entire piece, the first movement - From Dawn To Midday At The Sea - is  really superb  and could stand independently as far as I'm concerned. I consider it his finest achievement for orchestra.

Faun is good-- there's others I love more.

Merely good ?      But it's one of the landmarks of Western music and a turning point in the history of aesthetics.

I won't comment on P&M, or the previous thread on that, except to say I don't know how one can assume any real meaning to adjectives describing music beyond describing one's subjective reaction.  I call Albinoni's Adagio a beautifully moving work, and one of my best friends called it a dull, depression dirge. 

Who was right?   

If I find a reviewer that agrees with me, what does that provide?  If you want to talk about the contents of the score in terms of musical notation (use of whole tone, pentatonic, etc) , you can prove something, but adjectives aren't provable. 

You are right here of course and I can't argue with this but I'd still like to hear your opinions of it.

[Guido]

 But it's one of the landmarks of Western music and a turning point in the history of aesthetics.

From what to what in your eyes, and don't you see that change as a bad thing?

[Homo Aestheticus]

From what to what in your eyes, and don't you see that change as a bad thing?

But how ?

It was change that brought forth a masterwork of delicate potency and pastoral beauty.

[Guido]

I'm asking you to characterise what your conception of what the aesthetic turning point was - i.e. from what (preceeding) to what (following).

[Guido]

Also what are your thoughts on the exquisite cello sonata?

[Homo Aestheticus]

I'm asking you to characterise what your conception of what the aesthetic turning point was - i.e. from what (preceeding) to what (following).

From the supremacy of Wagner to the 'quiet' revolution.

[Guido]

What is that in musical terms? I seriously don't know what you mean. From Wagner's loud operas to a quiet movement of composers? Morton Feldman and the like? I just don't know what you think it heralds when you talk about it as a revolution. (Though I know what I think it heralds and signifies). Quietness in music?

[lukeottevanger]

Thanks for posting! Very interesting, all of it.

When I scare up En blanc et noir, I will be sure to check out the 2-piano Nocturnes.  These were actually the first Debussy pieces I got to know well;  we played Nuages & Fêtes in an all-state orchestra when I was in high school.

Karl, this cheap two-fer is an absolute winner for Debussy and Ravel duets - it's got everything on it, including some pretty obscure treasures (and not a harmonic in sight  0:) ). Debussy's four hand output is of major importance in his oeuvre as a whole. En blanc et noir is late, great Debussy at his best - and as we're otherwise left with only the Etudes, the three sonatas and a couple of odd scraps, the importance of this set can't be over-estimated; the Epigraphs Antiques are simply exquisite - evidently the composer of the faun, but older and even more seismically sensitive (I have fond memories of playing these at university with Huw Watkins). Even the early Petite Suite has a lot going for it. And the Ravel - Ma Mere l'Oye in its original pristine form (as played ay our wedding, with aforementioned Huw taking the primo part); rarities like Frontispiece (for 5 hands!) and Entre-cloches; duet versions of La Valse and the Rhapsodie Espagnole.... And I haven't listed everything. The two piano Debussy Nocturnes in Ravel's arrangement is here too, in fact.

Might be tonight's listening, in fact.