Question for those with the score of Tchaikovsky's PC1.

[Brian]

At the very beginning of the finale, the piano soloist states the main theme, and then after a couple seconds of orchestral echo, states the main theme over again. In Richter's recording, the second statement of the theme is played much more loudly than the first, while in Sudbin's the reverse is true. If you have the score, can you tell me who "gets it right"? Thanks 

[Symphonien]

Not sure exactly which entry you're referring to, but the first 8 bar piano theme is marked mf, the piano then rests on beats 2 and 3 while the orchestra plays here (is this the echo you refer to?) then comes back in the next bar with no different dynamic expression marked. The same theme is repeated for the next 8 bars, but when the piano comes in for the third time it is marked louder (f).

If I have it right which part you are referring to (the second entry), there is no different dynamic marked, so Richter and Sudbin are just adding their own different interpretations to provide a little contrast, since the theme is otherwise repeated exactly the same. Neither is right or wrong, at least according to the 2-piano score I have.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Not sure exactly which entry you're referring to, but the first 8 bar piano theme is marked mf, the piano then rests on beats 2 and 3 while the orchestra plays here (is this the echo you refer to?) then comes back in the next bar with no different dynamic expression marked. The same theme is repeated for the next 8 bars, but when the piano comes in for the third time it is marked louder (f).

If I have it right which part you are referring to (the second entry), there is no different dynamic marked, so Richter and Sudbin are just adding their own different interpretations to provide a little contrast, since the theme is otherwise repeated exactly the same. Neither is right or wrong, at least according to the 2-piano score I have.

Or both are equally wrong, according to the score. If Tchaikovsky had wanted a different dynamic shading for the repeat, he could have indicated one. For the third repetition, played an octave higher against syncopated strings, he obviously wanted the piano to play forte, just before the orchestra enters with its fortissimo tutti.

[Brian]

Not sure exactly which entry you're referring to, but the first 8 bar piano theme is marked mf, the piano then rests on beats 2 and 3 while the orchestra plays here (is this the echo you refer to?) then comes back in the next bar with no different dynamic expression marked. The same theme is repeated for the next 8 bars, but when the piano comes in for the third time it is marked louder (f).

If I have it right which part you are referring to (the second entry), there is no different dynamic marked, so Richter and Sudbin are just adding their own different interpretations to provide a little contrast, since the theme is otherwise repeated exactly the same. Neither is right or wrong, at least according to the 2-piano score I have.

Ah, yes, that's it ~ thank you very much. Apologies for my inability to express what I mean, but that is the answer I was looking for. Thank you both, Symphonien and Sforzando. Very interesting indeed ...

[Symphonien]

Or both are equally wrong, according to the score. If Tchaikovsky had wanted a different dynamic shading for the repeat, he could have indicated one.

Well, according to the score, yes they are both technically "wrong". But I don't like to say they are "wrong" because if all music was played exactly like the score says it would be very bland indeed. If you call deviating slightly from the score "wrong", then you would also have to call all rubato, phrasing, crescendo/diminuendo, pedalling, highlighting of voices, etc that aren't marked in the score "wrong" as well, and I don't think that is correct at all. Otherwise we should all listen to a computer play the piece if that is "right".

[Norbeone]

Well, according to the score, yes they are both technically "wrong". But I don't like to say they are "wrong" because if all music was played exactly like the score says it would be very bland indeed. If you call deviating slightly from the score "wrong", then you would also have to call all rubato, phrasing, crescendo/diminuendo, pedalling, highlighting of voices, etc that aren't marked in the score "wrong" as well, and I don't think that is correct at all. Otherwise we should all listen to a computer play the piece if that is "right".

Symphonien, you make a very relevant and important point, one that is not enough considered in its more 'homely' location, that of baroque (or any period really) performance practice.

[Symphonien]

Symphonien, you make a very relevant and important point, one that is not enough considered in its more 'homely' location, that of baroque (or any period really) performance practice.

Yes, baroque is one of my favourite periods of music to play actually, because often there is very little in the way of phrasing or dynamics marked in the score, so there is much left up to the performer. And even later in the classical period, Mozart for example rarely puts many dynamic markings into his scores.