Haydn's Haus

[Jo498]

You may not like them either but the Cohen/Höbarth/Coin does sound quite different although it is obviously still clearly a fortepiano sound.

One "problem" with many 1-2 disc anthologies is that they focus on a small number of works, mostly the 4 late trios Hob. 27-30 and the omnipresent "gypsy" #25. The Schiff & friends has the e minor #12 (someone who does not want all the early trios, should start about here) and #14 (in A flat) which earns them a higher recommendation from me than some others. Their two discs are on Aussie eloquence so quite cheap as well. Note that #11-14 are not actually early, they were written in the lat 1780s, after the "Paris symphonies" and everything from #18 on is about contemporary with the "London symphonies", so the last ca. 15 trios must be considered late Haydn.

[Madiel]

You may not like them either but the Cohen/Höbarth/Coin does sound quite different although it is obviously still clearly a fortepiano sound.

I did try one of their albums as well. It was admittedly less jangly than some. I would still much prefer a modern piano in this context.

[Jo498]

Interestingly, Naxos who had complete Haydn piano sonatas, quartets and symphonies already in the lat 90s or early 2000s has not a cycle of his trios. For modern instruments the Beaux Arts is still the main complete recording as the more recent Eisenstadt Trio is not available anymore (I think). I wonder if the latter sold so poorly that they did not bother keeping it in the catalogue. tbh, by the 2-3 discs I have I don't think the Eisenstadt is up there with the very best (they can be a bit bland) but it is good and in modern good sound.

[Gurn Blanston]

Mention of Trio Fontenay jogged my memory. I have this set (OOP apparently)

Manze, ter Linden, Mathot do Hob. XV:9-12.
Helasvuo [flute], Kartunnen, Hakkila do Hob. XV:15-17.
Trio Fontenay do Hob. XV:18/21/25/30, the only MI CD in this set.
The first two CDs in the set are the recordings by Asperen and company that Gurn showed.

Isn't it interesting that the whole box is PI except that one disk, yet there are numerous disks that THEY OWN, with the same repertoire on them?  I like the Fontenay's, I have them nicely playing Mendelssohn, for example, it is just odd to me. FWIW, I have all of those other disks, and they are commendable. Perhaps oddly, I like the Manze, ter Linden, Mathot disk as much or more than any of the others.

[Gurn Blanston]

No, Schiff is on modern instrument.
I think he did one Schubert Trio on a fortepiano but the two Haydn discs are modern. As for the Fontenay, I have it as an oddball Ultima twofer with an early recording of two quartets (Rider and Kaiser) with the ABQ. AFAIR I liked it quite a bit, especially because the A major #18 is a special favorite of mine while I could do well with only half of my recordings of the "gypsy" trio #25.

as for 1790 vs. Van Swieten, I used to find the differences rather small, at times not being too happy with the fortepiano sound of the former. In any case the Van Swieten (with van Oort on keyboard) is very competitive for the bargain price.

Ah, OK, haven't missed anything then. Actually, the Schiff Schubert is MI also, I have that set.


and it's really quite good, although not on a par (for me) with La Gaia Scienza. Schiff has a really nice Schubert set on solo pianoforte slowly coming out, I have the first couple of volumes, much to my delight. So in short, you never know what you're gonna get with Schiff!   

On the 1790/Swieten question; sound of the instruments is too subjective a criterion, so I won't debate it. However, I really like the playing of Harald Hören, I think he doesn't receive enough credit for some of his efforts.

This is another disk not mentioned so far, which I find to be very entertaining:



They play Hob 22-23 & 26 in a most entertaining manner.

[Mookalafalas]

One of my favorite pianists is Reine Gianoli. She was part of a French trio that that cut five disks of the Haydn Piano Trios in the mid-70s.  Actually, Gianoli only plays on the first half.  They are definitely not hip.  Nor do they try to be vigorous and exciting. They go for clarity, celebrating the various lines, and the enjoying playful charm of the music. Universal France rereleased the set in 2004. I don't know if it is available for streaming anywhere, but they might be an alternative for anyone not quite finding what they are looking for in the more commonly available versions.

[Daverz]

Ah, OK, haven't missed anything then. Actually, the Schiff Schubert is MI also, I have that set.

Interesting.  Schiff also recorded the last 8 piano trios for Decca with Shiokawa and Pergamenschikow. 

https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Piano-Trios-Vol-1/dp/B0007MR2CU
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Piano-Trios-Vol-2/dp/B0007MR2DO

[Jo498]

Yes, I mentioned them above and also the Schubert because I had misremember that Schiff used a historical fortepiano in the latter. These Haydn Trio recordings would be my first recommendation for someone who prefers modern instruments and does not want to go for a complete cycle (and there's only the Beaux Arts for that as the Eisenstadt Trio has been oop for years). Technically, it's not the last 8 trios but the last 6 and two earlier ones (12 and 14).

I have not heard the 2nd Trio Wanderer disc but their older disc (with only well known trios) is very good and this more recent one has a fantastic choice of works although  a bit of overlap with the Schiff et amici. Still, all Trios from Hob XV 11 upwards are great and it's hard to find some of them on modern instruments.

[asin]B079BJV362[/asin]

[vers la flamme]

I just noticed something: this thread has 608 pages. That's amazing! If any composer wrote enough music to discuss over hundreds of pages, it's Haydn. Surely one of the greatest composers of all time.

I'm currently listening to the Harnoncourt/RCO recording of the "Miracle" symphony. Love it! Harnoncourt has a way of making Haydn's symphonies sound really expansive, he makes them sound bigger than Beethoven, but in a convincing way that doesn't sound like he's forcing anything. I should hear more of these recordings.

Need to get back into Haydn in a major way, I've been neglecting his music lately.

[Gurn Blanston]

I just noticed something: this thread has 608 pages. That's amazing! If any composer wrote enough music to discuss over hundreds of pages, it's Haydn. Surely one of the greatest composers of all time.

I'm currently listening to the Harnoncourt/RCO recording of the "Miracle" symphony. Love it! Harnoncourt has a way of making Haydn's symphonies sound really expansive, he makes them sound bigger than Beethoven, but in a convincing way that doesn't sound like he's forcing anything. I should hear more of these recordings.

Need to get back into Haydn in a major way, I've been neglecting his music lately.

There's always something to talk about with Haydn, and we welcome everyone here. As for Harnoncourt, he is one of my favorites in Haydn, I prefer his Haydn to his Mozart, for example. If you have been down a lot of musical roads since you first heard Haydn, revisiting might be a surprise for you: a lot of those musical roads started in Eisenstadt...

[Jo498]

I think the Haydn recordings Harnoncourt made with the Concentus musicus are even more convincing. The "Paris" set has some mannerisms but is also unique and in very good sound. The 3 earlier discs (Teldec/warner) with early/middle symphonies are all among my favorites (30, 31, 45, 59, 60, 53, 69, 73)

[vers la flamme]

I think the Haydn recordings Harnoncourt made with the Concentus musicus are even more convincing. The "Paris" set has some mannerisms but is also unique and in very good sound. The 3 earlier discs (Teldec/warner) with early/middle symphonies are all among my favorites (30, 31, 45, 59, 60, 53, 69, 73)

I have two Harnoncourt/CMW recordings: The Seven Last Words, and the Missa in tempore belli, the latter of which I just picked up last weekend in the budget bin at a local bookstore. Haven't really spent time with either; I ought to change that soon.

There's always something to talk about with Haydn, and we welcome everyone here. As for Harnoncourt, he is one of my favorites in Haydn, I prefer his Haydn to his Mozart, for example. If you have been down a lot of musical roads since you first heard Haydn, revisiting might be a surprise for you: a lot of those musical roads started in Eisenstadt...

Well, Gurn, I appreciate the warm welcome–back.  I go in and out of phases of Haydn-obsession, but have not overall delved all too deep into his music. I have heard the London symphonies, the Paris symphonies, the few symphonies in between, a handful of the string quartets, and an even smaller handful of the piano trios—that's about it. With his birthday coming up I suspect I will end up binging a bit through some of what I have, and hopefully hear something new. For instance I've become curious about Haydn's Lieder and operas lately. Any lovers of his work in these genres, here?

PS. In a recent discussion here on the Haydn piano trios, I noticed that no one mentioned the Vienna Piano Trio recordings on Nimbus. Any fans here? I have one of their CDs and love it. Got it cheaply on Amazon.

[Gurn Blanston]

I think the Haydn recordings Harnoncourt made with the Concentus musicus are even more convincing. The "Paris" set has some mannerisms but is also unique and in very good sound. The 3 earlier discs (Teldec/warner) with early/middle symphonies are all among my favorites (30, 31, 45, 59, 60, 53, 69, 73)

Agreed, all around. The 'Paris' set is among my favorites. Their 'Creation' is also first-rate.

Well, Gurn, I appreciate the warm welcome–back.  I go in and out of phases of Haydn-obsession, but have not overall delved all too deep into his music. I have heard the London symphonies, the Paris symphonies, the few symphonies in between, a handful of the string quartets, and an even smaller handful of the piano trios—that's about it. With his birthday coming up I suspect I will end up binging a bit through some of what I have, and hopefully hear something new. For instance I've become curious about Haydn's Lieder and operas lately. Any lovers of his work in these genres, here?

PS. In a recent discussion here on the Haydn piano trios, I noticed that no one mentioned the Vienna Piano Trio recordings on Nimbus. Any fans here? I have one of their CDs and love it. Got it cheaply on Amazon. 

I am a big fan of Haydn's Lieder, both the German ones from the early 1780's and the English 'Canzonettas' of the 1790's.  Here is a disk I recommend to you. I know you aren't a period instruments fan, but sometimes you just have to overlook some stuff in order to get a solid, convincing performance. This is especially true when we are talking about chamber music, which these most certainly are.



I haven't ever seen the Vienna Piano Trio disks, but something I have learned over the years is this: with music the quality of the pianoforte trios, there may be peculiarities from performance to performance which attract or repel you, but by and large, there are no sucky recordings. I have every period instrument recording of these works extant, and on any given day I am subject to play any one of them with pleasure. It is the music which really matters to me. Of course, this isn't true of all music, but it certainly is with these! 

Recordings of Haydn's operas are thin on the ground. I think I have all the recordings, and I know I have all the operas. Orlando paladino by Harnoncourt is one I would recommend:



Excellent singing and playing!

[SonicMan46]

Oratorios - The Creation & The Seasons - new arrival, The Seasons w/ René Jacobs - now I listen to Papa's Oratorios rarely but now have accumulated the recordings shown below:

The Seasons - listening to my new addition at the moment, i.e. Jacobs and enjoying - not sure that I need Kuijken (but a fan of La Peitie Bande in other Haydn recordings owned w/ them); also curious if there are any 'English' recordings of this work worth exploring?

The Creation - like Paul McCreesh w/ performances in English; not sure that I need both of the other two, and Gardiner has been a favorite for many years.

So, any comments?  Recommendations as to performance languages preferred (and in all honestly, hearing some of the biblical words and seasonal poetry in English is not my 'thing' - ) - thanks all.  Dave

   

 

[JBS]

The only English language version of the Seasons I see on Amazon is
[asin]B01MTBYWFK[/asin]
I am pretty sure I have it, but am too lazy to check.

My initial reaction is that, unless you want an "old school" recording like that from Bernstein or Karajan, you are well set with what you have.  The McCreesh is my favorite Creation in either language.

[Daverz]

The only English language version of the Seasons I see on Amazon is
[asin]B01MTBYWFK[/asin]
I am pretty sure I have it, but am too lazy to check.

My initial reaction is that, unless you want an "old school" recording like that from Bernstein or Karajan, you are well set with what you have.  The McCreesh is my favorite Creation in either language.

The Beecham is in English, but is very old-fashioned, of course.

[asin] B00D56AD9O[/asin][asin] B00G2K8S3S[/asin]

[André]

Oratorios - The Creation & The Seasons - new arrival, The Seasons w/ René Jacobs - now I listen to Papa's Oratorios rarely but now have accumulated the recordings shown below:

The Seasons - listening to my new addition at the moment, i.e. Jacobs and enjoying - not sure that I need Kuijken (but a fan of La Peitie Bande in other Haydn recordings owned w/ them); also curious if there are any 'English' recordings of this work worth exploring?

The Creation - like Paul McCreesh w/ performances in English; not sure that I need both of the other two, and Gardiner has been a favorite for many years.


So, any comments?  Recommendations as to performance languages preferred (and in all honestly, hearing some of the biblical words and seasonal poetry in English is not my 'thing' - ) - thanks all.  Dave

   

 

The McCreesh and Spering versions of Creation - or Die Schöpfung, since I prefer it in German - are excellent. So are those by Christie and Griffiths, all with PI or in period style. I don't know the Gardiner. I generally dislike his work, so I leave its appreciation to others.

[Gurn Blanston]

I've managed to pick off nearly all of the English and German 'Creation's over the years. There is a second Weil which I never got, but only because I quite liked the one I had. Of the 12, the first 4 are in English, the last 10 in German.




And:






In English, I like McCreesh &  Steinaecker the best, although it is hard to fault Handel & Haydn Society, and the only fault with the Hogwood is a sort of muffled sound which irritates me.

In German, it is a much more difficult task, to toss out some superb performances to pick a favorite. I listen to Jacobs, Harnoncourt, Christie and Hengelbrock the most often, but don't have negative vibes about any of them, really. 

[Florestan]

Of the 12, the first 4 are in English, the last 10 in German.

Are you sure? 

[Mandryka]

According to Haydn Seek, Haydn wrote a keyboard trio in 1772, HobXV:02. Has anyone recorded it? I have the trio 1790 set but I just can't find it, maybe I need glasses.

Gurn - I assume that it's attributed to 1772 because of the way the earliest fair copy is dated, rather than anything more secure.  The reason I'm interested is that I'm exploring op 20.