Haydn's Haus

[ShineyMcShineShine]

I'm sure this has been discussed to death but what are your favorite piano trio recordings?  For a complete set I like Trio 1790 and the Beaux Arts Trio.  Outside of the box this is my favorite:

I like the Vivarte as well as the recordings by Cohen, Coin, and Hobarth on HM.

[Mandryka]

The other day I was thinking about how Prokofiev's First Symphony is a tribute to Haydn of sorts, his imagining of what it would sound like if Haydn wrote a symphony in the early 20th century. And I was thinking about the theory that Beethoven's Eighth Symphony is a tribute or homage to Haydn's examples.

Then I found this Wiki list of theme-and-variations works by other composers, using themes by Haydn:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_variations_on_a_theme_by_another_composer#H

This all got me curious if other examples exist. Any more good Haydn tribute music out there by later composers? Whether direct variations or more in the indirect style of Prokofiev's creation?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7981234--d2h-dedicatedtohaydn

[Brian]

Fascinating, thank you.

[Jo498]

Edison, Variations about "Der Tod ist ein langer Schlaf" (Death is a long sleep), apparently a canon by Haydn (I had never heard of) for cello and orchestra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU8W0-aktNc

[Florestan]

This finally arrived:



I'm flipping through the booklet and astonished at how star-studded a cast the band was. In the orchestra: Derek Solomons, Elizabeth Wallfisch, Pavlo and Lisa Beznosiuk, Roy Goodman, Monica Huggett, Anthony Halstead, Crispian Steele-Perkins - just about all the stars of the English HIP movement at that time. Wow! No wonder they sound so good.

I have one disc and a half to go from this marvelous set, to which I will come back often. A strong contender for the best incomplete cycle of Haydn's symphonies.

[Florestan]

I'm sure this has been discussed to death but what are your favorite piano trio recordings? 

For complete, BAT hands down! (Full disclosure: this splendid set was essential for keeping my sanity and cheerfulness during the Covid lockdown)

For incomplete, these three:







I also have the complete sets by Trio 1790 and Haydn Trio Eisenstadt but haven't listened to them yet.

[Brian]

I have one disc and a half to go from this marvelous set, to which I will come back often. A strong contender for the best incomplete cycle of Haydn's symphonies.

This got me thinking about the "best incomplete cycles," which to me would probably be Solomons and Bruggen; Marriner and Tafelmusik didn't quite get far enough to be considered an attempt at a complete cycle.

Between Solomons and Bruggen, the following symphonies were NOT covered: 6-9, 12-14, 21-25, 28-31, 34, 36, 40, 53, 61, 62, 70-81

There are a million 6-8 sets and a lot of 53s; Marriner did all four of those, and also covers 22, 31, 73.

Looking at some of the lonely symphonies like 9, 12, and 21, they have mostly been recorded either in complete cycles or incomplete attempts (like Goodman, Goberman, Hogwood, and the ongoing Antonini). Honestly it's kind of amazing how many complete cycles and failed there are!

If any conductors out there would like to start a brand-new cycle that might not ever get completed, I'd suggest they start with 9, 12-14, 21, 23-35, 28-30, 34, 36, 40, 61, 62, and 70-81!

[Madiel]

It's the lack of the 70-81 band that always surprises me. There's a lot of mature works in there.

[DavidW]

This got me thinking about the "best incomplete cycles," which to me would probably be Solomons and Bruggen; Marriner and Tafelmusik didn't quite get far enough to be considered an attempt at a complete cycle.

Between Solomons and Bruggen, the following symphonies were NOT covered: 6-9, 12-14, 21-25, 28-31, 34, 36, 40, 53, 61, 62, 70-81

There are a million 6-8 sets and a lot of 53s; Marriner did all four of those, and also covers 22, 31, 73.

Looking at some of the lonely symphonies like 9, 12, and 21, they have mostly been recorded either in complete cycles or incomplete attempts (like Goodman, Goberman, Hogwood, and the ongoing Antonini). Honestly it's kind of amazing how many complete cycles and failed there are!

If any conductors out there would like to start a brand-new cycle that might not ever get completed, I'd suggest they start with 9, 12-14, 21, 23-35, 28-30, 34, 36, 40, 61, 62, and 70-81!

It is kind of odd to lump Solomons and Bruggen together since Hogwood and Bruggen together cover all but four, and this box set provides those four making it complete:

[Brian]

It is kind of odd to lump Solomons and Bruggen together since Hogwood and Bruggen together cover all but four, and this box set provides those four making it complete:

I lumped them together as being my own favorites!

[Jo498]

It's the lack of the 70-81 band that always surprises me. There's a lot of mature works in there.

to be fair, Goodman recorded 70-78.
I'd guess the reason that those might often be left for later is that while very good they (at least 74-81) are more similar to the Paris and later symphonies than earlier works, so people tend to measure them against the very best whereas in earlier works the particularities are more appreciated because they are more different from the late symphonies.

[Spotted Horses]

This finally arrived:



I'm flipping through the booklet and astonished at how star-studded a cast the band was. In the orchestra: Derek Solomons, Elizabeth Wallfisch, Pavlo and Lisa Beznosiuk, Roy Goodman, Monica Huggett, Anthony Halstead, Crispian Steele-Perkins - just about all the stars of the English HIP movement at that time. Wow! No wonder they sound so good.

Looked up that Solomon set, and the marketing is unreal. For downloads you'd have to buy half a dozen installments at about $40 each. That's around $240 for half a cycle. Are they nuts? This is Sony, not some obscure half-bankrupt French label. But the CD set seems to go for about $50 on Amazon, and at least it can be streamed, maybe I'll try something from it.

[Brian]

Looked up that Solomon set, and the marketing is unreal. For downloads you'd have to buy half a dozen installments at about $40 each. That's around $240 for half a cycle. Are they nuts? This is Sony, not some obscure half-bankrupt French label. But the CD set seems to go for about $50 on Amazon, and at least it can be streamed, maybe I'll try something from it.

Give it a stream or two. HIP with smaller orchestra sizes and (mostly) without harpsichord continuo.

[Spotted Horses]

Give it a stream or two. HIP with smaller orchestra sizes and (mostly) without harpsichord continuo.

I listened to No 26, and was disoriented to realize it ended with a Menuetto and Trio. Huh? Did they lose the finale, or maybe in the early works the overall form was more variable. The slow movement sounded like one of those J.S. Bach cantata movements, where the choral theme is stated at glacial tempo while the other voices dance around it.

Nice. It is very HIP, reminds me of Sigiswald Kuijken and his Le Petite Band. Maybe I should listen to something more mainstream from this set.

[DavidW]

I listened to No 26, and was disoriented to realize it ended with a Menuetto and Trio. Huh? Did they lose the finale, or maybe in the early works the overall form was more variable.

Many of the early symphonies only have three movements. I don't think it was lost.

[Jo498]

3 movement symphonies are a minority even among the early ones but there a few of them.
 
Two of them with a menuet as finale are 26 and 30. There is an hypothesis that because Haydn uses bits of Gregorian chant in them that movements might have been used in church services (not sure which rôle a 5-8 min instrumental movement might have had there) and then later reused them for symphonies adding a menuet as finale. All this is doubtful they might as well have been planned in their extant 3 movement form but it is quite certain that there were no finale lost.

[Mapman]

I just attended a concert with a modern orchestral work inspired by Haydn's Symphony #60, 'Il Distratto' (and Shakespeare): Anna Clyne's Sound and Fury. I couldn't really hear the influence from Haydn; it sounded more like Bartók.

Naturally, I listened to Haydn's 60th after getting home. It's a really fun piece!

[calyptorhynchus]

3 movement symphonies are a minority even among the early ones but there a few of them.
 
Two of them with a menuet as finale are 26 and 30. There is an hypothesis that because Haydn uses bits of Gregorian chant in them that movements might have been used in church services (not sure which rôle a 5-8 min instrumental movement might have had there) and then later reused them for symphonies adding a menuet as finale. All this is doubtful they might as well have been planned in their extant 3 movement form but it is quite certain that there were no finale lost.

I had it in my head at one point that Haydn wrote 3 movements works when he didn't have trumpets and drums. I don't know how I formed that idea, is it correct?

[Jo498]

I had it in my head at one point that Haydn wrote 3 movements works when he didn't have trumpets and drums. I don't know how I formed that idea, is it correct?

I don't think so, IIRC #30 has trumpets and timpani. And of course there are lots of 4 movements symphonies without trumpets/timpani. There is no simple rule and I don't think Haydn wrote a 3 movement symphony after ca. 1765, except for #26 that seems to be an exception in several respects.

[Brian]

JPC says the complete Heidelberg symphony cycle will be released this December. Just 80 euros for 36 CDs.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/joseph-haydn-symphonien-nr-1-104/hnum/11952641