Haydn's Haus

[The new erato]

56 Euros at prestoclassical.

[Lethevich]

56 Euros at prestoclassical.

Decca are smart cookies - a lot of people are going to buy this at that price - myself included.

[Renfield]

Decca are smart cookies - a lot of people are going to buy this at that price - myself included.

The Fischer is also available for around that price, and as I'm also currently shopping for a complete Haydn set, I'm much more tempted to go for that one. Not that it's at all bad that Decca are lowering the Dorati's price; quite the contrary!

[SonicMan46]

The Fischer is also available for around that price, and as I'm also currently shopping for a complete Haydn set, I'm much more tempted to go for that one. Not that it's at all bad that Decca are lowering the Dorati's price; quite the contrary!

Well, might be appropriate to obtain some opinions on complete sets of Joe's symphonic output - I own about a half of his output in this genre (mostly above No. 50), many w/ Fischer & Goodman, but would certainly like to obtain some of the earlier ones? I like Fischer & Goodman and would be happy w/ those two in the early ones, but any other choices for a COMPLETE set? Thanks all! 

[Lethevich]

Well, might be appropriate to obtain some opinions on complete sets of Joe's symphonic output - I own about a half of his output in this genre (mostly above No. 50), many w/ Fischer & Goodman, but would certainly like to obtain some of the earlier ones? I like Fischer & Goodman and would be happy w/ those two in the early ones, but any other choices for a COMPLETE set? Thanks all! 

The third option is the Naxos cycle, which has recently completed, but I have yet to read a single reason why this should be chosen over the other two cheaper and better sets. It is a piecemeal collection of often uninspired performances by an incoherent collection of performers. A company with the resources of Naxos in terms of making complete recordings of areas of the repertoire could've done a lot better than this.

Dorati is naturally in an older style of performance than Fischer, which I must admit interests me more at the moment, given the amount of HIP options available on single discs. As Gurn mentioned a few posts back, it's quite rare to find many of the symphonies Dorati plays performed by a large band, which adds an extra level of interest for me. That is definitely a personal preference, though - from what I have read by fans, Fischer does seem to be the new "default" recommendation for a complete set.

It would be interesting to see if an enterprising company releases a small set of only the early symphonies at some point. Sadly Hogwood would've been ideal for this, given his recognition of the different circumstances behind different symphonies in his Beethoven and Mozart cycles, yet the record companies don't seem interested in getting him to record any more Haydn. I would much rather hear Hogwood than an autopilot Pinnock run-through (no matter how good Pinnock's run-throughs are). I am also keen on Goodman BTW, shame that his cycle seems to have halted as well.

[Gurn Blanston]

Dorati and Fischer are the only complete cycles by the same band all the way through. There are several groups in the Naxos, as Lethe says, and some are very good, others are... tepid at best. All the promising starts otherwise have turned off stillborn. Hogwood would be MY choice too, as I am very fond of both his Mozart and Beethoven. I also like Goodman although not to the point of "can't live without". My favorite semi-complete set right now is Tafelmusik/Weil, but I don't think this is destined for completion either. I was hoping that at least one period instrument set would be more than a sampler, but I just don't think that's going to happen. So it goes.



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Listening to:
Haydn Piano Sonatas - John McCabe - Sonata #03 in F for Piano H 16 9 2nd mvmt

[karlhenning]

Life is too short for tepid Haydn. There! I said it.

[SonicMan46]

Life is too short for tepid Haydn. There! I said it.

Karl - agree, Haydn should be played in all of this glory! 

But, he wrote so DAMN much for complete cycles - oh well - only can hope -      Dave

[Bogey]

Joseph Haydn: Symphony #86 in D HOB 86
Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra / Hugh Wolff
Teldec 46313

Caught the above on the radio earlier this morning.  Incredible recording, and that was based on our car's system!  Does anyone here have this or more of this tandem for Haydn?

[Martin Lind]

Hi everybody!

Interesting to follow these discussions here. For myself: I am 47 and I am listening to classical music since my youth but I think that it is really the first time in my life that I am really caught by Haydn. Strange isn't it? I had of course always some CDs, very often not very good ones. Very rarely I listened to Haydn and said: Well not bad, quite nice, a bit boring but not bad. Sometimes I liked it a bit more, sometimes less so.

But during the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydn and I think he is in his way a very exciting composer. And I never could have thought of Haydn to be exciting. But in his way he is.

I think there are two very important steps to Haydn. First of all he is no romantic. This is the first step, as in my youth I was terribly influenced by romantic music. The second step: He is no Mozart and Beethoven.

But in the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydns music, for example the Opus 20 string quartets ( the Capriccio!) and some of his late symphonies. And sometimes I am really stunned. The man has his own voice. And in his way he is very exciting. Sometimes he appears to be so simple. And then you realize he can make something so great from something simple. Very often he is very subtle.

Please forgive me, if I write a bit naive. But these are some of my impressions. I wonder why I sometimes even were tempted by romantic music of less importance instead of discovering works of a really great genius. And Haydn is a genius. And I think somehow it is difficult to realize this. Baroque music is another matter, you have to explore this in his own right and you do. Haydn on the other hand is in the shadow of all romantic and classical music.

All this said: My current enthusiasm for Haydn may be a bit naive. As I said I always knew some things of him and appreciated that - but I really think I missed somehow the point of really being intrigued by Haydn, which is a shame. And I have 1300 CDs of classical music, I am really not a newbie. Strange.

Regards
Martin

[ChamberNut]

Hi everybody!

Interesting to follow these discussions here. For myself: I am 47 and I am listening to classical music since my youth but I think that it is really the first time in my life that I am really caught by Haydn. Strange isn't it? I had of course always some CDs, very often not very good ones. Very rarely I listened to Haydn and said: Well not bad, quite nice, a bit boring but not bad. Sometimes I liked it a bit more, sometimes less so.

But during the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydn and I think he is in his way a very exciting composer. And I never could have thought of Haydn to be exciting. But in his way he is.

I think there are two very important steps to Haydn. First of all he is no romantic. This is the first step, as in my youth I was terribly influenced by romantic music. The second step: He is no Mozart and Beethoven.

But in the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydns music, for example the Opus 20 string quartets ( the Capriccio!) and some of his late symphonies. And sometimes I am really stunned. The man has his own voice. And in his way he is very exciting. Sometimes he appears to be so simple. And then you realize he can make something so great from something simple. Very often he is very subtle.

Please forgive me, if I write a bit naive. But these are some of my impressions. I wonder why I sometimes even were tempted by romantic music of less importance instead of discovering works of a really great genius. And Haydn is a genius. And I think somehow it is difficult to realize this. Baroque music is another matter, you have to explore this in his own right and you do. Haydn on the other hand is in the shadow of all romantic and classical music.

All this said: My current enthusiasm for Haydn may be a bit naive. As I said I always knew some things of him and appreciated that - but I really think I missed somehow the point of really being intrigued by Haydn, which is a shame. And I have 1300 CDs of classical music, I am really not a newbie. Strange.

Regards
Martin

Martin, I had a similar "first impression" of Haydn - that he wouldn't be as interesting as other composers, especially Romantic composers.  And of course, I was wrong.  There really isn't anything boring about Haydn at all.  Especially not in the string quartets (particularly the Opus 20 and Opus 76 & 77).

My first Haydn disc purchased was the string quartet version of "Seven Last Words of Christ.....", and I couldn't believe how intricate and complex a work it was!  Not to mention quite beautiful. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi everybody!

Interesting to follow these discussions here. For myself: I am 47 and I am listening to classical music since my youth but I think that it is really the first time in my life that I am really caught by Haydn. Strange isn't it? I had of course always some CDs, very often not very good ones. Very rarely I listened to Haydn and said: Well not bad, quite nice, a bit boring but not bad. Sometimes I liked it a bit more, sometimes less so.

But during the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydn and I think he is in his way a very exciting composer. And I never could have thought of Haydn to be exciting. But in his way he is.

I think there are two very important steps to Haydn. First of all he is no romantic. This is the first step, as in my youth I was terribly influenced by romantic music. The second step: He is no Mozart and Beethoven.

But in the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydns music, for example the Opus 20 string quartets ( the Capriccio!) and some of his late symphonies. And sometimes I am really stunned. The man has his own voice. And in his way he is very exciting. Sometimes he appears to be so simple. And then you realize he can make something so great from something simple. Very often he is very subtle.

Please forgive me, if I write a bit naive. But these are some of my impressions. I wonder why I sometimes even were tempted by romantic music of less importance instead of discovering works of a really great genius. And Haydn is a genius. And I think somehow it is difficult to realize this. Baroque music is another matter, you have to explore this in his own right and you do. Haydn on the other hand is in the shadow of all romantic and classical music.

All this said: My current enthusiasm for Haydn may be a bit naive. As I said I always knew some things of him and appreciated that - but I really think I missed somehow the point of really being intrigued by Haydn, which is a shame. And I have 1300 CDs of classical music, I am really not a newbie. Strange.

Regards
Martin

Martin,
Not naive at all, rather perceptive instead. There are some few of us here who prefer Classical Era music above all, and we know that Haydn was THE master! I was most fortunate in that my father really liked Haydn's symphonies, so I heard them from a very early age and came to equate that sound with "classical music". And 15 years ago when I decided to explore chamber music, my very first disk was Haydn's Op 76 #1-3, so not only the string quartet but all chamber music came to me through Haydn. There couldn't have been a more positive introduction. So, I still listen to Baroque and Romantic music, of course, but for me, Classical music and especially Haydn and Mozart are the pinnacles of music.



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Listening to:
Richter: Quatuors opus 5 - Rincontro - Quartetto oeuvre 5 en Ut Majeur, No. 1: II. Andante poco (Fa Majeur)

[SonicMan46]

Hi everybody!..............

But during the last few weeks I listened more and more to Haydn and I think he is in his way a very exciting composer. And I never could have thought of Haydn to be exciting. But in his way he is.

I think there are two very important steps to Haydn. First of all he is no romantic. This is the first step, as in my youth I was terribly influenced by romantic music. The second step: He is no Mozart and Beethoven....................

Hello Martin - glad to see another Haydn fan here!  He is one of my favorite composers and I'm one of the ones in the flock of admirers that Gurn mentions - he is certainly one of my favorite composers - I have nearly 2400 classical CDs and about 100 or so are those of  Joe Haydn's music, and I'm just beginning (e.g. I have very few 'duplicate' performances - that could easily double my collection) - however, I have much more to explore, e.g. his earlier symphonies and I'm dying for more of his baryton works to appear!  So, please contribute and if you want some specific recommendations just post back here - Dave 

[DavidW]

And I have 1300 CDs of classical music, I am really not a newbie. Strange.

I think I've listened to about that many cds when I really rediscovered Haydn as you did.  I agree with you that his subtle music can easily be under-appreciated in the light of gushing romanticism, but he grows on you after awhile and you come to appreciate his music.  He is my favorite composer, no one else will do. 0:)

[Bogey]

I think I've listened to about that many cds when I really rediscovered Haydn as you did.  I agree with you that his subtle music can easily be under-appreciated in the light of gushing romanticism, but he grows on you after awhile and you come to appreciate his music.  He is my favorite composer, no one else will do. 0:)

No. 2 on my list.  Only LvB is in front of him, and not by much.  Dead on with the under appreciated comment David.  However, Mr. J. S. Bach is starting to creep into the picture.  Might Wolfie drop to No. 4?  How far might Bach go?  Yikes! 

[DavidW]

No. 2 on my list.  Only LvB is in front of him, and not by much.  Dead on with the under appreciated comment David.  However, Mr. J. S. Bach is starting to creep into the picture.  Might Wolfie drop to No. 4?  How far might Bach go?  Yikes! 

Bach's cantatas vs Mozart's operas... who will win this contest?  Only Bogey knows.

[Bogey]

Bach's cantatas vs Mozart's operas... who will win this contest?  Only Bogey knows.

Oh, in that case, Cantatas, easily.... 0:)

[SonicMan46]

No. 2 on my list.  Only LvB is in front of him, and not by much.  Dead on with the under appreciated comment David.  However, Mr. J. S. Bach is starting to creep into the picture.  Might Wolfie drop to No. 4?  How far might Bach go?  Yikes! 

Evening Bill - Wolfie & Papa Bach are numbers 2/3 on my 'numbers list' - a lot of others, including LvB come up next - but Joe is hard to beat for me (of course, the guy was SO prolific!  I guess, in part, because he disliked his wife so much and also had to produce a lot of music at that country estate of his enployment!  ) - Dave 

[Martin Lind]

Hello Martin - glad to see another Haydn fan here!  He is one of my favorite composers and I'm one of the ones in the flock of admirers that Gurn mentions - he is certainly one of my favorite composers - I have nearly 2400 classical CDs and about 100 or so are those of  Joe Haydn's music, and I'm just beginning (e.g. I have very few 'duplicate' performances - that could easily double my collection) - however, I have much more to explore, e.g. his earlier symphonies and I'm dying for more of his baryton works to appear!  So, please contribute and if you want some specific recommendations just post back here - Dave 

Thank you all for your welcome. For recommendations: Well, I quite seriously think about the Brilliant Haydn set. Although these are 150 CDs, and I will never know. These big boxes are a temptation on the one hand, and intimedating on the other. I don't have the complete works of Bach and Mozart from Brilliant by the way, I like "big boxes", but don't like "monster boxes". And the Haydn box ist a monster box.

On the other hand I have the Buchbergers with Opus 20 and like that. And I heard good things about the symphonies with Fischer. Although I know also that Fischer shouldn't be first class in the London symphonies. So maybe I should buy a really good set of the London symphonies. The Brilliant box costs 80 Euro, also some money, but of course very cheap, as you get a "nearly comple" Haydn, but of course also money. There is now also the Doratiset from Decca on the market, also quite cheap.

But just now I want to listen to Haydn more intensely ( the CDs, I already have) and buying new CDs is another step.

Regards Martin

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you all for your welcome. For recommendations: Well, I quite seriously think about the Brilliant Haydn set. Although these are 150 CDs, and I will never know. These big boxes are a temptation on the one hand, and intimedating on the other. I don't have the complete works of Bach and Mozart from Brilliant by the way, I like "big boxes", but don't like "monster boxes". And the Haydn box ist a monster box.

On the other hand I have the Buchbergers with Opus 20 and like that. And I heard good things about the symphonies with Fischer. Although I know also that Fischer shouldn't be first class in the London symphonies. So maybe I should buy a really good set of the London symphonies. The Brilliant box costs 80 Euro, also some money, but of course very cheap, as you get a "nearly comple" Haydn, but of course also money. There is now also the Doratiset from Decca on the market, also quite cheap.

But just now I want to listen to Haydn more intensely ( the CDs, I already have) and buying new CDs is another step.

Regards Martin

Martin,
I don't see how you can go wrong with the "Big Box", although I don't have any of them either. So much of Haydn is hard to come by, and at 80 Euros, it is the price that the Fischer set alone used to sell for (less now, of course). I have the Fischer set and think it is a great cycle. Even the London's are very good, although they have been recorded by everyone and their brother, so there is bound to be a set that is superior in some ways. Another attraction is that the complete Baryton Trios are in there, the only existing recordings of the whole thing. That would even make it worthwhile for Sonic! And also as many of the quartets as the Buchbergers have done so far (they will undoubtedly complete the cycle). Bear in mind that this is only Volume 1 of the Complete Haydn. There is easily enough music for another 100 disks, possibly more!

But again, your idea of listening thoroughly to the disks you already have is a very good one. Perhaps if you wait a bit longer and do that, the price of the Big Box will come down even more.



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Listening to:
Haydn: The Creation - Hogwood / Academy of Ancient Music / Emma Kirkby / Anthony Rolfe Johnson /  Michael George / Choir of New College Oxford - Hob 21 02 Oratorio "The Creation" pt 27 - In rosy mantle appears